trackinthebox

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Worthington State Park is located WITHIN Delaware Water Gap NRA http://www.njskylands.com/pkworthington.htm "Situated along the river, within the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, Worthington State Forest comprises almost 6,000 acres..................." So not only do the NPS rules apply but State Forest as well.

Don't you hate it when a park tells you what you can and can't do? It makes me wanna get out my motorized, pneumatic wheeled roller skates and zip around the trails there! There are lots of rules and signs out there telling all us long haired, hippie freaks what we can and can't do. Hey, that listing looks familiar I know people who wade at that park just because it's not prohibited on the sign. Hey, on a side note, you remember the Pennsylvania family from "Everybody Loves Raymond"? Very accurate depiction... Fortunately, I grew up close enough to the border to not end up like that.

Yup, that map doesn't show the real boundry of Delaware Water Gap NRA.

Not going there again as this is the result... That cache was one I was searching for when it was archived. I tend to not want to get other cache placers mad at me for ratting their caches out......... They are there and can be found if one searches as I did. Bottom line is my cache was retrieved, I archived it myself and I won't bother trying to list another cache on NPS lands till the end of time. Good enough?

Like I said WAY back in my first post, I spent days researching this park and found many caches contained therein BEFORE I decided to list one there. IF I had known back then that it was going to cause THIS MUCH controversy, I would have NEVER even tried to put the cache on NPS lands. And I tend to not want to get other cache placers mad at me for ratting their caches out.........

Look. By all means, you have the "freedom" to allow the NPS to call your caches "litter" or "abandoned property", EVEN THOUGH, as geocachers, you know the exact opposite to be true. And by submitting to their rediculous definition of geocaching, you concede that it is true and correct that geocache's are indeed what they claim it is. Don't fight. You are perfectly within your rights not to do so. But don't tell me I have to submit to the NPS's heavy handed BS definition as it is my right not to.

Yeah, maybe the founders should have felt that way about the British as well? After all, it's rude to fight for freedom/equality for ALL men.

Oh so now I owe an apology for being pissed that other caches in this park were approved WITHOUT PERMISSION and mine wasn't? Ain't gonna happen For the record: 2 in PA 7 in NJ last count 10/16/06........ There could be more

Oh but they do, and they have. As of this date, there are still 2 non-virtual caches in this park on NPS land in PA. Thus the secondary title of the original post. One of these PA caches is "hidden" by a premium membership but easily spotted as it is a short distance from a public one. I made the mistake of pointing one out and it was archived so I wont do that again. However they are still there. In NJ, in this park, once again on NPS land, there are about a half dozen. Selective approval of caches is bound to irritate.

1) You were talking about a "ban". Show me the "ban" in the USC and NOT the NPS's twisting of it to suit their own needs. Geocaches are NOT litter or abandoned property. Geocachers know this. 2) a] Wow and b] Was a joke son, get it? 3) Once again, I don't have to ask for permission to walk, hike, swim or breathe. Is that REALLY that hard to understand? 4) http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...ic=59382&hl

1) There is no NPS "ban" as there is no law. 2) Thats from the Declaration, not the Constitution. I never said I wanted to place a cache on your nose did I? 3) No need, my Creator already gave me my rights. 4) See # 3

Wrong. The pursuit of Happiness is defined by the one doing the pursuing provided there is no SPECIFIC law prohibiting such pursuit which in the case of geocaching there isn't. Next........ "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." It's self evident. I haven't forgotten that. They are given by our Creator, not a mere man. I haven't forgotten that. They are unalienable American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source un·al·ien·a·ble (n-ly-n-bl, -l--) Pronunciation Key adj. Not to be separated, given away, or taken away; inalienable: “All of them... claim unalienable dignity as individuals” (Garrison Keillor). I haven't forgotten that. among these means there are more than just these. I haven't forgotten that either. And if geocaching happens to fall within MY pursuit of happiness (which it does), it is a RIGHT. And I most certainly haven't forgotten that.

Point is, nobody would THINK of asking permission to walk, hike, swim or breathe on land that their tax dollars pay for. They just do it. Putting a tin box filled with dollar store trinkets on those same lands is not littering by the very definition of geocaching. Geocaches are NOT abandoned. Geocaches are NOT litter. When geocachers ALLOW geocaching to be called littering by the the NPS by submitting to their rediculous definition of OUR hobby, WE get hurt by our submission, NOT them.

Thats too bad. Glad I dont live in Minnesota.

Yeah, taxes tend to do that.... They give me a "big sense of entitlement" And professional courtesy? I'll leave that one for the attorneys. In any event, just because I feel permission is a rediculous requirement (IE: May I have permission to walk, hike, swim or breathe) for Geocaching........... .......doesn't mean I trapse through the forest with wanton disregard for nature. I take trash out whenever I encounter it and I don't and wouldn't disturb or cause to be disturbed ANY sensitive areas. And this is WAY before I discovered Geocaching. This post: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...ic=59382&hl about says it all. AND it's quite similar to: "A free people claim their rights as derived from the laws of nature, and not as the gift of their chief magistrate." - Thomas Jefferson

A little clarification from the National Forest website in my State: Allegheny National Forest Reasonable guidelines and even more awesome is the fact that we dont have to ask permission for an otherwise harmless activity.

Too bad the forest service doesn't administrate National Parks. They are referring to Forest Service or National Forest parks, NOT NPS parks. Forest Service and/or National Forest: http://www.fs.fed.us/ National Park Service: http://www.nps.gov/

They are referring to National Forest parks, not National Park Service parks.

While researching areas to place caches without begging to exercise your right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, I happened upon this article: "Tech geeks go treasure-hunting" The excerpt of particular interest is: "The U.S. Forest Service allows geocaching in national parks but does not require permits. "For the most part, they're really responsible folks," Polo said. "They care about the environment and they want to be out in nature. ... These are just the kinds of people we want in our parks." Many geocaching groups organize park cleanup days, known as CITO events, for Cache In Trash Out." Exactly right. With rights come responsibility and as long as we are mindful about the environemnt, we don't need Big Brother babysitting us in the woods.

A cheap ($49.99) i415 with My Location as my GPS software. Hasn't let me down but once and "real" GPS unit's have problems there from what I read. It's also a great decoy if there are nearby muggles as I can pretend to text message or be talking on the phone. The only drawback is that you have to manually enter waypoints which really isn't a big deal as you can enter those at breakfast before you head out for the day.

Thanks. I did avoid the one that Rt. 6 bisects. That would be SGL 180. Mine was placed on SGL 209 very deep in the woods. I found the Shohola Falls cache on 180 about a week ago. Nice cache. Wow, there was no need to archive Mountain Man. I'm sure the NPS didn't give a hoot about it. And who cares if they did? Not me. Perhaps if the reviewers were members of the victims families of the NPS's theft in the inTocksicated Island debacle, they would feel differently. Do a little history research about Tocks Island. Then maybe you would be able to see how people could feel the same as the guy from Braveheart that said............ Stephen: Stephen is my name. I'm the most wanted man on my island. Except I'm not on my island, of course. More's the pity. Hamish: Your island? You mean Ireland. Stephen: Yeah. It's MINE. Hamish: You're a madman. Stephen: [Laughs] I've come to the right place then.

Marcia Keener is NOT a Lawmaker. September 20, 2006: http://www.mountainx.com/features/2006/0920greenscene.php "Marcia Keener, an analyst with the Office of Policy at the National Park Service, says the NPS has not officially banned geocaching but considers it "banned until permitted." Well I consider it officially permitted until banned BY AN ACTUAL LAW, not some moronic park service - yes man monkey - opinion ......... There is no law so stop wasting your time, AND mine. I'm done with this, I have a cache to place today.

I can protect MYSELF just fine thank you. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin Seems to me, geocaching.com is MORE concerned about geocaching on NPS property than the NPS themselves. Thus the 11 caches in this park, MOST without permission. IF I had a problem (which I am SURE I wouldn't have) I have a good attorney like I said...... But whatever........ My cache is gone and I refuse to jump through hoops to place a cache there. In fact, I refuse to jump through hoops to do ANYTHING in this life whatsoever.

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