JPreto

HAHAHAHHAHA!!!! This is ridiculous, it´s like scoring a goal before the game even begins!!!! Geocaching game starts when the cache is published because... those are the rules! Until it is published it is not active, thus, not in the game, thus lot loggable!!! Easy explanation. The problem is that no one official want to get their hands dirty in situations like this because FTF is not an official recognized achievement inside the game. So... just let it be! GoundSpeak doesn´t want to be very strict in the way people play this game, this is part of the game, friends helping friends, even if not in a correct manner.

What's new for me is the number of Portuguese who are finding work in Brazil due to the economic downturn in Europe. You are right but it is not my case... I married a Brazilian! So tell me about differences in culture because, let me tell you... I KNOW THEM!!!! DNFing is a great thing if you don´t find the cache... but I really understand why you can´t do Challenges that have negative goals, like DNF, imagine people putting more DNFs them they put now photologs!!!! There is no way you have a reason (if it´s not harmful) to delete a DNF... so, how many caches are there in the whole world? Why not DNF them all... I never found them!!!! If there was a rule of some sort that allowed Reviewers to delete logs from caches that the CO is absent it would be very nice... Of course, this would be more work for the poor reviewers but also put some responsibility on all of us to just inform the reviewers about these cases. Just an idea! Maybe a campaign to show the differences between Geocaching and Waymarking? Saying clearly that one is with caches another one is without caches? Maybe people would understand that photologing is actually another game, by the same company, called Waymarking!!!!

I think you are confusing 2 things, logging a photo and photologing. Photologing is the act of NOT FINDING THE CACHE but taking a picture that you have been in the correct spot and posting a photo as proof you where there. Basically this is like Waymarking, another game that also belongs to Groundspeak that is a totally different game. Logging a photo as proof that you saw the cache and, at least, opened it, is what you mention. I love when I see a log like this: "I took photo of the cache but I couldn´t reach it so, I log this found with the picture of it". I can clearly remember 2 cases, that I posted my opinion in that cache, and not only was severely criticized as they asked me to delete the Note. I´m glad to hear that you changed your opinion on this subject. I recall you saying, in some of the first meetings in Ibirapuera Park, when I started talking about this, that you DID NOT log all your DNFs, specially if you where in a hurry and couldn´t find the cache quickly since, as you put it: "It wouldn´t be fair to the CO". In these cases you would not log the DNF and come back another time to search properly. As I recall these were your words. Funny that when I write in Portuguese in the Brazilian Groundspeak Forum specifically about these, for me, off this topic discussions I get virtually no answers, now speaking in English it´s the 3rd participating Brazilian geocacher. Maybe I should start writing in English, in the Brazilian Forum to get at least some participation. I am also very criticized by writing my logs in English so both foreigners (531 different geocachers in 2013) and Brazilians (284 different geocachers in 2013) can understand the logs since English is, like it or not, the most frequent common language between 2 foreigners. Talking about collaboration between geocachers... So, my initial post is now a discussion on how geocaching is made in Brazil... Why don´t we split this topic into 2 topics and open the discussion independently? Or, if you want you can just participate in Portuguese in the topic I opened in the Brazil Forum (October 23rd, 2013) called GeoTrash em SP and give your opinion there. Only the moderator "ruidealmeida" (aka "Kelux") expressed his opinion. Can we please go back to the inicial topic, the Groundspeak PRO-DNFing Campaign and stop this very country specific discussion that can and should be held in the Brazilian Forum?

Portugal vs Portugal playing in Brazil... a World Cup preparation match!!! It´s a pity we are living almost 3000km apart. I love Socrates! If you see my profile this my first sentence... since I enrolled geocaching! Not logging DNFs is not against the rules, as it is not to log FOUND IT in own caches, Groundspeak just mentions that "It is considered "bad form" to log a find on your own geocache" so, it´s not against the rules. If someone wants to do it they can do it and since they are the CO no one can delete the logs... But, the same as not logging DNFs, logging FOUND IT in own caches is, for me, lack of etiquette. In this topic, I was just praising Groundspeak act on trying to show how important it is to log DNFs for a CO, for me this is sharing and not being selfish. It´s hard to forget to log a find but very easy to forget to log a DNF... just this. Aaaaaannnnnnnd we are back!!!! After this short break we are back on the subject of this topic... a campaign that suggests making friends among geocachers! Nice idea, I have some in Portugal and none yet in Brazil... maybe it is a cultural difference, nevertheless I attend events here and talk to them in many occasions. This not only is true, it is a fact!!!! After finding some of "ricardomt" caches I personally congratulated him and said keep up with the good caches...

You said you are against all other geocachers, that don't care about DNFs. I'm also a geocacher in Brasil (even with a shared cache in São Paulo) and I do care about DNFs... and of course, I am not the only one... far from that. Simple as that. How can someone be so vain, to proclaim himself as the only one playing correctly... while everybody else is wrong? Ohhhhhhhh.... I am sorry for not including you in the São Paulo geocacher´s list since you have 1 (one) shared cache in SP and when was your last geocaching day here, somewhere in 2012 right???? But no worries, you are on both my Manaus geocacher´s list and in the Brazil geocacher´s list!!!! But since the problem with my first post were 2 words, inside this sentence: "I am a fighter in my community (Brazil - São Paulo) against all other geocachers because they don´t bother about DNFs" I can surely rephrase this to: (hopefully not lying any more!) "I am an influencer in my community (Brazil - São Paulo) against most other geocachers because they don´t bother about DNFs" This way I am including you and also some geocachers I probably haven´t meet yet... But, the ones I meet in São Paulo ALL of them don´t post many of the DNFs!!!! And it´s not about being right or wrong, it´s about posting or not their DNFs. Do you want me to edit my first post? Can we now go back with the initial topic: Be Proud to log you DNFs campaign?

It's really sad that you feel like that... mostly because it is a lie. I think you are on the wrong foot here... We are talking about PRO-DNF!!! But in any case I am a liar now... First time I hear this! We talked about this same subject in October 2013 both by direct emails and by the Brazilian Forum (Here in Portuguese, sorry). You did advise me to place a NM in cases I was almost sure that the cache was not there and that I did! Since most cache owners here don´t have a close relationship with their caches most of them are not regularly visited by the owners, lets say at least yearly. Out of almost 300 caches I had visit in São Paulo area only around 200 FOUNDS and 100 DNFs... from these 100 DNFs, after your advice, I placed 70 NM and until now only 12 caches were actually there. In any case this means I was wrong in placing a NM in 12 out of 70 caches... Big deal! What about the other 58 caches that could have been visited by other geocachers? What about the constant photologs and throwdowns? If someone places a NM in a cache of mine, the first thing I immediately do is Disable it, then in the next few weeks I go there and check it, replace it or just say it was here, you just didn´t find it. If everybody did this, the amount of caches that are abandoned by owners and susceptible to these acts would clearly diminish. You are accusing me of being a liar because I say others think DNFs lead people not to visit the DNF´d caches, I can quote this on several emails written by the geocachers of my community... It´s their opinion, not mine... I know I´m not lying so... no harm done... By the way, thanks for the early advice because it really helped changing the way people are geocaching here. Now maintenance is done quickly and not so many long term temporary disabled caches (even tho some are almost doing anniversary) and not so many NM caches (even tho many caches are also with NM for more than 4 months). People are logging more DNFs and most of them take pictures and attach of the logbook that helps the COs verifying false logs without having to physically visit the cache!!! I´m not publicly accusing anybody from being a liar, moreover when I have told you facts that show the opposite... I really can´t see your point here... And by the way, bullying is another story! Geocaching is a game! It as rules and if Groundspeak makes a campaign on PRO-DNF this is my way of just saying thank you for trying to improve the quality of the game we love!!!

UAU!!! Those comments are great, thanks "Eftie F." and "geoyokozuna"!!!! The goal of my post was really to try and say that taking a position on logging DNFs is great!!!! No shame on loging a DNF what so ever... In Brazil, as there are not many active players, 320 different players in 2013 and less then 1500 active caches (I know, it´s hard to get your stats up) but this also means that there is a lot of caches that the CO is Missing In Action and local players just avoid those caches because they know the owners are "offline" for more than 2-3 years and their caches are long gone. Some greedy players, knowing this use these caches as a great +1 opportunity, owner will never delete the log since is no longer active and if they place a throwdown just makes them more legitimate as "geoyokozuna" says... Even tho I contacted some reviewrs about these caches they said the orders are that the CO is responsible for the cache and since the cache is now ok (because of recent throwdown) nothing they can do. Even if the cache is long gone and the visiting player clearly states in the log it is a photolog, no one will delete this log... All this "badly teatches" new players to this wonderful game of Geocaching, giving them bad references and showing them how to prevaricate! Maybe the problem is not only "educating" the geocachers that logging a DNF is not a bad thing but also that placing thowdowns or doing photologs totally goes agains the simple primary rule of the game: "Find the cache, sign it, log it!". This is what I try and state here! I´m not trying to discuss the reason why this happens because it is simple, people want a +1 even if this means breaking the rules of the game otherwise they would just log a DNF or not log at all! I bet they always win in Solitary too... Happy caching, happy DNFing and more honesty since no prize is given for high numbers... I can´t imagine what would happen if there was a prize!

Thank you so much for the opinions and history on these, for me, important subjects! Yes, April Fool´s day is celebrated also in Brazil but after working for almost 14 years in Marketing I can clearly see this as a Pro-DNFing campaign! First a Newsletter in March 3rd, 2014 with the title DNF to Say "I Care" and now the prank of a guy being proud to have 50.000 DNFs it´s a clear message of the campaign which I totally and absolutely love! For me this means that Groundspeak is aware of the recent problems and tries to keep up with the game growth. That is for me a very smart and brave attitude. Apart from not logging DNFs, the major geocaching "on field" problems are Photologing and Throwdowns, of course there are honorable mentions to "cache stealing or damaging", "own cache logging" or "logging caches hidden with the CO", "needs maintenance log deleting" and "not maintaining caches or visiting them over years". But all these other issues seem small comparing to those two. Just an opinion!

First of all I really must congratulate Groundspeak for this idea!!! I am a fighter in my community (Brazil - São Paulo) against all other geocachers because they don´t bother about DNFs, they say that they are useless and moreover makes other geocachers less keen to go there and look for the cache. I totally disagree with this point of view and always log all caches I visit, with either a FOUND, a DNF and if the case a NEEDS MAINTENANCE, rarely an ARCHIVE. So thank you, thank you Groundspeak to let everybody know how important a DNF can be for the owner!!!! I hope the results from this campaign are great and more and more DNFs are registered!!!! Now the BUT... Why not make a campaign against Photologs or Throwdows? These are major problems in geocaching, at least in Brazil they are, and for what I read, the same thing happens all over the world. Geocachers want numbers, that is a fact!!!! (otherwise why would anyone log a cache?!?!?) The problem is how they get their numbers, honestly or not... or lets put it, following the rules or not... The rules are clear: No photologs, you must sign the physical logbook in order to log on the site. Right? Many geocachers forget this and if the CO just left the caches there and never did maintenance or abandoned the game anybody can log a FIND even if they haven´t found it or even worse, leave a new cache in the supposed place and log a FOUND. This is the worst case for me, it´s breaking 2 rules: 1st you are not the CO so don´t leave a new box and 2nd log a FOUND in a cache you just placed... right, they forget where they just placed it!!! Again, great "DNF PRIDE" campaign, why not go for the next level?

E mais ainda, esta a opinião da Groundspeak sobre registar um "encontrei" num cache próprio: http://support.Groundspeak.com/index.php?pg=kb.page&id=80

Já agora, aqui as opiniões de vários jogadores sobre registar um segundo FOUND no mesmo cache... http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=317785

Já agora, encontrei este tópico no forum... achei que estava relacionado com isto! http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=311306

Já agora... a minha média vai agora em 339 founds e 124 dnf logo cerca de 27% de DNFs. Estes os dados de outros paises... http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=318562 ...ainda acham que não há um problema no Brasil?

Boas! Eu gosto de cumprir as regras do jogo (tanto escritas como de etiqueta) e por isso preocupo-me em logar todos os caches que visito (seja um DNF ou um FOUND) para que o owner do cache possa ver o que se está a passar. Por vezes um DNF no momento certo pode evitar que outro geocacher faça uma longa viagem em vão ou que o owner tenha tempo de efectuar a devida manutenção se necessário. Nesta minha busca no geocaching descobri uma ferramenta muito útil para verificar a existência de possíveis registos duplicados ou errados. Por vezes a internet não está tão boa e os registos são submetidos em duplicado. Acontece! http://project-gc.com/Profile/FindBadLogs É só colocar o nome do geocacher e voila!, identifica registos duplicados em caches próprios, registos duplicados noutros caches e FOUNDS em caches próprios. Lembrem-se que o owner é o absoluto responsável pelo seu cache, se existirem registos duplicados este deve contactar o jogador que efectuou os registos e alertar-lo para esta situação. Em último caso o owner tem a capacidade de apagar os registos errados (situação que deve ser evitada). Também vai contra os ideais do jogo registar FOUND num cache próprio. Existe também uma situação muito discutível que é quando um cache muda de lugar e vamos novamente ao mesmo cache e registamos um segundo FOUND. Eu pessoalmente considero que o facto do cache mudar de local é apenas uma adaptação às circunstancias (por vezes a árvore foi abatida ou o esconderijo foi descoberto) e nunca deve ser registado um segundo FOUND, eu o que faço é colocar uma nota registando a minha visita e algo mais que queira assinalar. Caso o cache tenha mudado bastante de local o owner deveria ter arquivado aquele e fazer um novo listing. Sou ainda muito novato mas tenho visto muitos logs duplicados e triplicados. Esta ferramenta pode ser útil...

É a reconquista do Brasil?!?!?! A ver se o Geocaching por aquí mexe já que as coisas estão muito paradas!

Boas! Há os chamados "dias normais" de geocaching: sai de casa, pega no carro (ou na moto), combina com amigos ou vai sozinho, vai para o GZ, procura o cache, é picado por mosquitos ou formigas, o vizinho sai perguntando o que está fazendo se precisa de ajuda, etc... Mas há outros dias em que algo surpreendente acontece... hoje foi um deles para mim... Saí de São Paulo pela manhã com a minha mulher e o destino era Quiririm e Taubaté. Dutra, cá vamos, paragem obrigatória para uma pamonha que adoro e a seguir caminho. Após alguns founds e alguns DNF´s aparece uma tempestade... ao início chuvinha continuamos em direcção ao próximo cache, depois chuvona parámos no carro e começamos a ver onde tomar um chopp, depois granizo e a prioridade era achar um posto para não amassar o carro (granizo com cerca de 1-2cm) e a chuva não parava... depois a chuva abrandou e veio o vento... muito mas muito vento!!! Postes no chão... cabos... reclames de publicidade... Estas algumas das imagens em Taubaté, depois de ter parado de chover. Não se podia circular em todas as estradas, muita policia, bombeiros e a prefeitura tentando tirar árvores e ramos do caminho...Uma verdadeira aventura!!! Alguém tem mais histórias destas para contar? Encontrei esta do Palm_Marcelo que também gostei... VAMOS PARTILHAR ESSAS AVENTURAS!!!!

Já agora, neste momento os únicos 2 estados do Brasil onde não existem caches são: ALAGOAS e MARANHÃO. Quem será o primeiro geocacher a colocar um cache num destes estados?!?!?!

Apenas para fazer novo update dos 74 caches que efectuei log de NM: - 12 estavam no local e de boa saúde (eu é que não tinha encontrado, my bad!). - 8 foram colocados novos recipientes. - 14 Disabled, à espera que o owner verifique. - 3 Arquivados. E os restantes 37 ainda não se sabe nada, porque ninguém mais procurou ou porque o owner não respondeu. Em relação a estes, o que fazer? Continuar à espera até quando para desabilitar? Existe alguma possibilidade de algum geocacher que já encontrou algum destes caches, passar pelo local e verificar se ainda existe o cache ou se é mesmo para desabilitar e/ou arquivar? Esta a lista: [sN] Laguinho Anhanguera 1 Anhanguera 2 Cache do Senna Chuck 002 Chuck 004 Chuck 005 Chuck 13 - Ernani Chuck 16 - Ângelo Conti Comemorativo (I Pic-Geo-Nic Campinas) Em busca do APE 02 Em busca do APE 10 Felídeo 1 - Anhanguera Felídeo 14 - Caieiras Felídeo 15 - Praça do Samba Felídeo 16 - Rotatoria Felídeo 19 - Amália Felídeo 3 - Lourenço De Bellis Felídeo 5 - Praça da Felicidade Jardim Botânico - Americana/SP Jd Sul 1 Jd Sul 2 - Lela Ambuda LOST Anhanguera McHome Na Terra da Uva Oasis Urbano Pão e Vinho Parque do Estado Pedra do Moinho Portinho Pq. Ecológico - Cps Praça Carlos Gomes Quilombo Sede da Fazenda Unwanted Souvenirs Villa lobos - 2 Villa Lobos Se alguém é o owner de um destes caches, por favor confirme que ele se encontra no local. Obrigado!

Bom ponto de vista... Um cache é normalmente composto por 3 partes: X - tampa Y - recipiente Z - logbook Eu apenas considero um FOUND se: 1) Encontro o container (X+Y) com logbook (Z), esta a situação mais comum. 2) Encontro o container (X+Y) sem logbook (Z) mas tenho a certeza que é o container correcto, por exemplo através de fotos de outros geocachers ou do owner. Se tiver cologo um logbook novo. 3) Encontro o recipiente (Y) e o logbook (Z). Aviso o owner que o cache não tem tampa e necessita manutenção. 4) Encontro o Logbook (Z) no local indicado mas sem container (X+Y). Se tiver um container reponho o cache avisando o owner que coloquei um recipiente provisório. Já existiram casos em que encontrei apenas a tampa (X) do cache ou o suposto recipiente (Y) sem tampa e nunca loguei FOUND. Mas isso sou eu... pode ser bastante criticável também logar FOUND na situação 4) mas é assim que eu faço. Obrigado pela tua opinião, fez-me pensar no tema!

Boas! Em 2014 irei tentar que o Geocaching no Brasil aumente, tanto em numero de participantes como em numero de caches colocados. Para o numero de geocachers aumentar é necessário que os caches estejam colocados e em boas condições para que as pessoas que sejam picadas pelo bichinho não desistam ao não encontrar o cache ou verificar que quem o colocou não está efectuando manutenção do mesmo. A relação cache/owner deve ser longa e mesmo que não existam visitas de outros jogadores este deve garantir que o cache se encontra em condições, como indicado pelos Guidelines: Você é responsável por visitas ocasionais à sua geocache para assegurar que está tudo em ordem para funcionar, especialmente quando alguém reporta um problema com a geocache (desaparecimento, estrago, humidade/infiltrações, etc.), ou faz um registo "Precisa de Manutenção". Desactive temporariamente a sua geocache para que os outros saibam que não devem procurar a geocache até que tenha resolvido o problema. A outra parte é a mais fácil... colocar caches! Em 2014 conto colocar 365 caches, 1 por dia... caso não consiga irei colocar vários no mesmo dia... gostava de conseguir que no final de 2014 existissem mais 365 caches colocados por mim. Sim, é uma responsabilidade grande cuidar de tantos caches mas tentarei fazer o melhor que posso para garantir que estejam activos e em bom estado pelo que os colocarei todos num raio de 25km de casa, em SP. "Um cache por dia dá saúde e alegria!" - JPreto

Boas! Para qualquer geocacher existem dois momentos muito marcantes, o primeiro FOUND e o primeiro CACHE colocado. No primeiro FOUND normalmente é acompanhado por outro Geocacher, um amigo que falou do tema ou alguém que falou do tema, um colega de trabalho... Já o primeiro CACHE colocado é outra história, o local foi escolhido, o recipiente foi escolhido, o logbook feito e agora é esperar que alguém "pegue no isco" e vá ao local procurar o seu cache. Quais as sensações? Como foi a experiência? Porque escolheu aquele local?

Recipientes feitos com embalagens de iogurte de 500g Esta foi uma ideia que tive e como adoro iogurte liquido para colocar em muesli ao pequeno almoço (café da manhã) tenho um grande consumo destes recipientes. Inicialmente pensei em utilizar directamente o recipiente mas era muito grande então, ao cortar o topo de um reparei que a própria tampa cabe no buraco do corte. Então utilizando cola quente fixo as duas peças, com uma lixa circular retiro o excesso e depois um pouco de tinta por cima e criatividade ficam assim.

Boas! Apesar de já existir um tópico sobre Recipientes adequados para caches neste gostava de falar sobre como e com que materiais fazer recipientes de materiais recicláveis para evitar ter de comprar Tupperware, Lock & Lock ou outros similares. Já vi uns do "palm_marcelo" feitos com Tubos de PVC e outros do "Laferre" feitos com tapas de garrafas de refrigerantes. Muito bom!!! A ideia é falar como criar caches com materiais que utilizas diariamente e que normalmente iriam para o lixo.

Bem-vindos, patrícios! Vamos fazer crescer o GeoCaching aqui no Brasil... bora lá!!!!

É, eu dou mesmo demasiada importância... que sejam todos muito felizes e que tenham um Excelente 2014!!!! P.S.: Pena que sejam poucas as pessoas a participar neste forum... opiniões são sempre importantes!