egami

You will still have choices that determine whether or not you have fun. I am not contesting that...I am just saying that every element involved in "having fun" isn't controlled by the individual.

I don't care what anyone else has done...I ask permission. At the end of the day you don't want it to be your cache that was the one that caused a problem.

The problem is it isn't just a plainly simple as us "choosing" to have fun. Other issues we have little or no control over factor into our ability to have fun. When said "choices" that are "fun" run out and most new caches are the 7-Eleven, Wal-Mart and BK variety it'll detrimentally the ability for those cachers to have fun.

I don't have a player...I would just like to avoid purchasing an iPod if I can.

I see you're from Iowa. Do you know Bob Smith? Yeah, he works at the Co-op!

Does anyone know if GSAK will export to any non-iPod players?

That is only 2 demerits in Iowa.

I'm biased, but French Peak is a really good hide in my book. I learned of this one from briansnat posting it in a previous thread of similar topic. I actually have backpacked to probably right near GZ on this cache location, but it was back prior to the existence of geocaching when I lived in Washington. I was in probably the best shape of my life when we went up back when I went and this was a taxing journey. I should look for caches listed in the Sawtooth range in Idaho...I've done a lot of backpacking and camping in those areas as well.

You're a better man than me, if you do routine maintenance checks. I do maintence checks when I have a reason to believe a cache needs one, but there is nothing routine about it. Well, I currently only have two caches...both of which are walking distance from work or home. However, I guess the point was that checking out a cache in a situation like you mention below isn't that much more intensive than a maintenance check...you're probably right that "routine" was probably a poor choice of wording. That sounds as though a bunch of cachers went out and checked up on all of the cachers that this KC team claimed to have found. Well, I know The NVG as we are from the same state, and I know somewhat of what he is talking about from talking to other cachers and reading the Iowa forums. I just moved to the area, so we've met, but don't know each other well or anything. I think it was more something that tipped them off and so people realized it was kind an odd thing and so a few of them went and checked and things cascaded from there. Actually most of the caches in the DSM area are mostly owned by about a dozen or so very active cachers, so it really didn't take that much probably to go check them. But maybe NVG can speak better to it as I think he was actively involved.

DIE! Yeah, it can be a deceptive message, you do technically timeout, but the majority of the time the post goes through I've noticed.

No crazier than routine maintenance checks.

I think you're going to want the Premium Membership if you want all the information outside of the basic .loc file. Like the cache info. and logs, for instance.

I don't believe Ive read where anyone accused another of taking that position...

This is what I like about the Iowa area cachers I've met...they aren't monitoring logs looking for issues to knit-pick, but when something like this occurs they'll protect the integrity of the game. There's that word again...integrity, we can't have that in geocaching! Isn't that what I stated in my post...do I get some credit for Minnesota cachers I think the "i-word" is ok to use!!! I can't speak to anything stated by Minnesota cachers as I consider that Canada and really don't care... Sorry, I didn't see your post specifically on that, so I'll give you full credit for that.

This is what I like about the Iowa area cachers I've met...they aren't monitoring logs looking for issues to knit-pick, but when something like this occurs they'll protect the integrity of the game. There's that word again...integrity, we can't have that in geocaching!

A little off topic, but responding to #5 in list above - team caching; Am I doing wrong under these circumstances - I am the only one in my family with a GeoCaching account. Sometimes I go hunting alone, sometimes with my wife and sometimes with wife and son. I log the find under my membership even if HopsMaltYeast Spouse or son finds it before I do. There is only one paper log done and only one online log done. This seems to fit with the spirit of GeoCaching to me. I cache with my kids and this is what we do...I log finds individually for me and then the kids get logged under a "team" account. I do this for the purpose sorting things in GSAK when we go caching. When they get old enough if they want their own account then they'll be able to back-log.

I think you can still use it free with a little annoyance window or something that pops up and hinders you from using it for like 60 seconds, but I enjoyed the software and paid for it...it was like $20. so its a one time thing, not a monthly fee? Yes, kinda, I paid one time in early 2006 and haven't been charged since. I believe on occasion that they will charge after so many upgrades, but we aren't talking like even yearly...maybe someone that has had it longer than me can share their experience as well.

Yeah, I could see where that is more helpful. Although, I get the feeling that might just encourage them to not log the DNF's. Kind of the opposite effect of the smiley...

I think you can still use it free with a little annoyance window or something that pops up and hinders you from using it for like 60 seconds, but I enjoyed the software and paid for it...it was like $20.

I'd go for that, but TPTB never would go for anything that may be detrimental to revenue generating.

Is it too late to change my stance?

Ahh, cool thanks...another cache area I've been to prior to a cache being there.

I agree...I would be attracted to a site that raised the bar. But I wouldn't want it to be so overloaded with purism that there was leniency for reasonable policy exceptions. You will never encounter black and white. Ever. If humans are involved there will be differences. Look at highly-regulated games, from football to tennis, where the rules are carefully spelled out and there should be little gray area... yet there certainly is! As to the "leniency for reasonable policy exceptions", what's reasonable to you will be quite different than what's reasonable to others - witness the discord in these forums! Common sense isn't common! We all have our individual beliefs and a natural instinct to protect and project our desires. Life is gray, it always will be. I disagree. There are things clearly black and white. The only difference is to what degree individuals deliberately allow areas toward the center to be grey. However, you're missing the point, at least on my part...the point isn't to achieve perfection. The point would be to create a less grey version that this has become.

I agree...I would be attracted to a site that raised the bar. But I wouldn't want it to be so overloaded with purism that there was leniency for reasonable policy exceptions.

Wait a minute...I thought you said there was NO integrity in geocaching? Generally, I agree, I am not personally going to get worked up over how others log finds...play the game the way you want, but conversely people logging "out of the norm" have to accept that log owner's have the final say. Conversely, I don't criticize people for supporting integrity in the game. If it's their preference that the game have standards that's also their prerogative. They just need to accept that it's never going to be a purist game. At some point we all generally have a line to draw somewhere...