Scratch Ankle
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Posts posted by Scratch Ankle
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My TB was picked up and taken to an out of the way cache - I want it to travel across Canada going east and it ended up going NW.
It does seem that cachers need to have some kind of device to indicate directions made available to them. Perhaps someone could give some thought to inventing such a device
We released our first TB in western New York not far from the Pennsylvania border on Lake Erie. The goal was to go to Arizona. So far it has traveled north and east only - Arizona is southwest. At the same time, we dropped off a TB that had a goal of going to Maine. I had picked it up in Kentucky, dropped it in New York, and it was picked up and is now in Ohio. I've looked at a few other TBs and it seems to be a common issue that they will mostly travel in any direction except the correct one.
I've read enough in the forums to know that this was likely to happen so it doesn't bother me much and it has only been a couple months. When it disappears - as is apparently also a good likelihood - I won't be surprised or hurt either.
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That's interesting to know. Thanks. Would have been helpful to have that info while we were out as I would have known the spot the GPS indicated was GZ was wrong and we wouldn't have spent a half hour looking. On the other hand, I wouldn't have looked there before going there anyway. I'm not sure the wife would have wanted to walk another half mile with the trip back being up hill. Maybe we'll try it again for our 50th anniversary.
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I don't know why anyone would rely on Google Maps. Every time I use it the icon keeps jumping around as I move in. Going to caches I have found and know for a fact where they are, the icon never seems to actually be on the cache and it will jump to several locations and be off as much as a couple hundred feet. That doesn't instill confidence in me. It might suggest a place to park and a trail to take once I'm on site with my GPS pointing where I should go but I wouldn't trust it beyond that.
On the other hand, GPS had me 2/10 mile in the middle of the woods when I should have been at the edge of the woods the other day. Not sure the prettier half of the team was too pleased about spending our 40th anniversary pointlessly searching the woods for something that wasn't there.
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Rumor has it that the rattlesnakes have stopped rattleing. I do not know if it is true, but one of my co-workers went to his land in West Texas and said that he killed several that did not rattle.
I've heard that rumor for years and it is anecdotal. Rattlesnakes have never always rattled to warn you. There is some suggestion that if there is something to that rumor that maybe natural selection is favoring rattlesnakes that don't rattle and therefore draw attention to themselves to get killed by people.
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I left a hint of sorts at one cache that the ghost did not come out possibly because someone had placed a memorial wreath on the path and maybe this gave him peace. I did not mention that this was about where you had to leave the path in order to get to the cache. The CO made it clear you could not rely on coordinates to find GZ due to the trees and surrounding hills. He sure wasn't kidding and the high winds the day I was there didn't help any either. He did a very good job of explaining where to leave the path (and he may have placed the memorial himself although he didn't mention it nor had anyone else). He also described the site of the cache and while you had to look some there was really just the one place it could be.
I like evil hints. One cache (archived before I could find) was a reflector with a magnet on the back attached to a guardrail by a drop off to a creek. I knew what the cache was due to spoilers (one cacher even placed video on Utube). The hint was a comment about the "reflection in the creek". My kind of hint -- you don't know it's a hint until you find out what the cache is so you can recognize it as a hint.
I can't imagine leaving a blatant hint in a log even if it was in the wrong location. I found one that I thought was not where it should be but I replaced it where I found it and simply stated in the log that it was not in what I felt was the correct location based on information the CO gave and then contacted the CO. Wonder of wonders, I wasn't as dumb as I look -- surprised my wife to no end.
It was in the wrong location. Not only that, where I thought it should be was where it actually should have been which really surprised my wife. The CO did reply that it was in the wrong location on the log and then replaced it in the correct location a couple weeks later. If the CO had failed to respond (apparently a pretty common occurrence from reading the forum) I don't think I would have considered giving a hint in a follow up log since I did note it was probably out of place but it was findable without a hint as to where it would be. If the CO doesn't maintain the cache, DNF and NA's will eventually archive it. In theory anyway. -
Why wouldn't a CO have liability? It is a known issue as reported here that cachers do not read the page so the warning has limited usefullness in protecting the CO from liability. Also, in this case, the CO has been notified of the problem and has failed to respond which would seem to indicate that a callous attitude and don't care that they caused a problem. Forget the liability part of it since very few, if any of us, are actually lawyers and the lawyers won't agree on the liability question anyway. What is certainly obvious is that Goecaching gets a black eye with the property owner and neighbors and that is something that comes up often in these threads quite often. What is the difference in a traditional cache placed at the front door of this person's house without permission and putting fake coordinates at this person's front door? Same result -- unwanted people showing up on this innocent person's door causing problems -- possible damage to the property, annoyance at having to deal with these people (and some at rather odd hours), and the fear factor and the possible consequences of that. We worry about someone driving a nail into a tree but screw the property owner?
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What's the great fear (in general; not directed at the quoted poster) about riling a CO? So they get mad at you. What are the negative ramifications? I suppose they could delete your find logs on their caches, but are numbers that important that that's a big problem?
Some of this may be a result of not wanting to post an NA or NM on a cache owner that you may run into at the grocery store. This may not be an issue in Chicago but where I live it is a real likelihood whether you know it or not. One cache I've looked at has been temporarily disabled by a reviewer. The CO apparently isn't active and I just found out that I know him. I actually talk to him weekly as we are ham operators but I wouldn't bring it up on the air especially since he has been notified that the cache is missing. I don't actually see him face to face very often (lives in another town) but I will mention it to him when I do.
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I recently posted an NA on a cache I had contacted the CO about directly. Based on spoiler pictures I was pretty sure what and where the cache was but since someone had posted a found it after my DNF I wasn't positive so I contacted the CO -- if I'm right it's missing, if I'm wrong please let me know. I never heard from him. My nephew had gotten some interest in the game so I used this page to show the hints evil people like me give. This was a reflector attached by magnet to a guardrail quite a ways from the road by the creek and one finder's log mentioned the reflection of the trees in the water -- a hint but you don't know it is until you find the cache. In showing him these posts I noticed one with a couple of links to UTube videos showing the finding and retrieval of the cache which removed all doubts. After 7 weeks and confirming the cache was still missing I posted the NA.
CO almost immediately archived with a terse note, "gone". Later looking at my map I noticed that there were a lot fewer caches showing. The CO was a very prolific hider and he apparently archived everything. I had found a couple of his caches and they were in good shape. One in particular I liked was a fishing hole I used to frequent but had not been to in several years. Several of the caches were guard rails along the highway but not all of them and I hate to have lost them all. However, under the circumstances I would do so again but hope for a better response from the CO.
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I apparently do have a problem with the TB notifications. Mine was dropped off and I have not gotten a notification.
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I have done a few trips alone but prefer my wife's company -- failing that someone's company. For dangerous areas I wouldn't go alone and probably wouldn't cache there for fear of getting her hurt. For out of the way areas I would go with someone just in the event something happened like a heart attack, broken bone, or even a poisonous snake bite (that can happen in town). For the less rural ones, other than wanting company, I wouldn't hesitate to go alone. I'm very happy with my own company but some things just are better with company. It's sort of like going to Disney World -- it isn't much fun alone and even with another adult it misses something. Kids make a big difference there. Caching is the same way -- I like having someone else with me who gets excited to find one. And in our case, she seems to be able to spot them better than me.
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Just for an update, I just got a notification about a TB I am watching that I picked up here in Kentucky and dropped in New York State telling me it had been retrieved. So the only missed notification so far was on my TB that had been retrieved 6/11 according to the log although it seems like I had looked at that TB this past weekend before I changed the email address and it was still sitting in a cache at that point. Possible the post was made (and back dated) just as I changed the email address so it got lost ???
It is not at all unusual for some to log backdated Finds and Trackables. Do understand that not all are "johnny-on-the-spot" with their logging.
As time wears on with your geocaching, you will discover this. The more trackables you have out and the more caches you place, this will become apparent to you a bit quicker.
I have seen Discovery logs come in months after some folks have attended events. The bigger (more attendance) the event, the more late logs come in -- both logging and notifications. The sad thing is, many Discoveries are logged w/o the logger saying where it was that they Discovered it, or even bother to backdate it properly. That can sometimes create confusion.
As an example, read the logs for WHO . The added "bonus" to this tracking history -- if you scroll through it all -- shows you that even with a mission, a trackable rarely moves in any semblance of a direct line. Clicking the map link shows you very quickly this little guys roundabout movements. I applaud the cacher that had the ability and means to take it to where it is at this time.
The notice I just got was about a TB I am watching. It and a weekly newsletter came in on my new email address that I changed this past weekend.
I do understand about back dating logs as I referred to in my post. My point was I did not get a notification of the retrieval of MY TB at all and wondered if it was possible the back dated log of the retrieval was posted at the same time I was changing my email address and caused it to go astray although I would think it would have gone to the original email address as it is still active.
The more likely scenario is that sometimes email just doesn't get where it is supposed to go or takes longer than it should. I recently had an email that took 2 weeks to get to me while others in the family got it right away.
I do not seem to have the problem the OP has and he/she hasn't weighed in since so it may be resolved. I just have one notice that has gone astray for some reason. That matched the OP's problem but he/she apparently has multiple notices not received while I only have the one TB and only one action since I changed the email address. Hopefully when the TB is dropped off I will get a notice.
I do have a safe list for geocaching.com and no filters blocking anything (so far). I did log out and back in when I changed the email address. The fact that I am getting other things messages through geocaching.com indicates all that is working as it should.
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Just for an update, I just got a notification about a TB I am watching that I picked up here in Kentucky and dropped in New York State telling me it had been retrieved. So the only missed notification so far was on my TB that had been retrieved 6/11 according to the log although it seems like I had looked at that TB this past weekend before I changed the email address and it was still sitting in a cache at that point. Possible the post was made (and back dated) just as I changed the email address so it got lost ???
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I recently changed my email address also. I did not get a notification of a TB being picked up but I did just get a weekly newsletter. Hopefully it is just a hiccup as occasionally email does get lost.
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That wouldn't make me squeamish but a lot of people probably would be. Telling about Uncle Willy's ashes made several folks give me that look. There are also folks who have a religious objection to cremation. I wouldn't recommend it on that basis.
Additionally, I would be concerned about the cremains disappearing. A "favorite" complaint on this forum is disappearing trackables.
I see that someone posted that this is being done already while I was composing my original post. I had included a bit here about checking on the legality of this. When it comes to the dearly departed, some people have some serious concerns about what happens and they sometimes make it into law. Let's hope for all concerned that there is no issue with what is happening or at least no one gets in trouble since no disrespect is meant. Some places make the scattering of cremains illegal.
Better to make the trip yourself but still check the laws. There shouldn't be a problem traveling with them but there may well be restrictions on how they are carried for the way you will travel as well as what you do with them.
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I can see that CO comment as a compliment to you -- you had explained you returned a couple times (found stage two when you had failed twice before) and spent a couple hours at the final stage crawling in the mud and then admitted defeat without griping about it being too hard and you wasted gas and so on. So obviously you are one who enjoys the challenge of the search rather than simply adding more finds to your count. It's awful easy to misunderstand what someone means in writing since you don't have visual clues to tell whether they are being sincerely or sarcastic. People often quickly write a note without considering that so the note may convey something entirely different than they meant.
It didn't show up in my cut and paste, but the comment from the owner had a "wink" smiley at the end... so sarcastic. Still your point is valid; the intent of what is said can be misread on both sides.
I don't see the addition of of a "wink" as being sarcastic. I don't do smilies much so I may miss those nuances. I've also observed that most people do their snark about others behind their back although when it comes to a posting in a forum to or about someone you are not likely to ever meet, people tend to be a lot less polite than they would be when they are at arms length distance. Anyway, even with the wink I still don't see anything that means it was an insult -- or at least that it absolutely had to be an insult to you. Make your life easy and assume it was a compliment to you since it really could have been.
There is also the possibility that if snark was intended by that wink and the comment the CO posted that it was directed at those people who are the whiners and fakers. You know, those who post a found it because all that mud means they can't get to the cache and they did use up all that gas getting there after all so they deserve the smilie.
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Some people say that I can be a tad grumpy at times... And I will say what I think of the cache and location. "Rats bigger than many dogs! "Trashy area. Couldn't you find a better place to hide a cache?" Things like that. But that's for a very low number of caches. "Homeless person's tent still there. Didn't bother looking."
But! If I didn't find the cache, I will post a DNF.
This is what I was thinking. I haven't seen the exact logs of the person in question, but any log which mentions any displeasure with the caching experience can be seen by others as "whining". Whether a found or a DNF.
But logging a find when they didn't find because they "tried" is obviously not right.
Here is a log on my 3rd DNF on a cache I found difficult:
This time no problem with stage 2 (where I failed twice before) - don't know how I missed it. But spent 2 hours wallowing in the mud at the final location with no joy. I know I was in the right area, as I recognised the location in (previous finders) photo.
Time for me to move on. I guess this one is not to be for me.
The cache owner responded with a note on the cache page addressed to me:
Clearly this is one for those who enjoy the challenge of crosswords and searching rather than simply racking up numbers
Now by the time of my 3rd DNF (and knee deep mud) I was a bit frustrated. I can see how my log could be interpreted as "whining". But I didn't say anything offensive, and I felt the owners response was out of line.
Maybe with the logs of the cacher in question here it is clear cut.. but my point is there is a fine line between an honest log which says "I didn't really enjoy this" and "whining".
So yes, delete bogus found logs. But also let people say what they feel about the caching experience (as long as they are not being offensive).
I can see that CO comment as a compliment to you -- you had explained you returned a couple times (found stage two when you had failed twice before) and spent a couple hours at the final stage crawling in the mud and then admitted defeat without griping about it being too hard and you wasted gas and so on. So obviously you are one who enjoys the challenge of the search rather than simply adding more finds to your count. It's awful easy to misunderstand what someone means in writing since you don't have visual clues to tell whether they are being sincerely or sarcastic. People often quickly write a note without considering that so the note may convey something entirely different than they meant.
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What makes you think bears are not an issue in cities? We've had several bears on residential streets in several of the cities around here. Lots of wildlife wander city streets. Lots of food to be found there, especially nights before garbage collection day.
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Yesterday, I went to check on two of my geocaches, after someone had logged a "DNF" for both of them. When I went to the cache, which was a regular size and had tradeables inside, I couldn't find it! Only after thinking it had been muggled, and was searching around for a new possible spot to hide a new container, I finally found my geocache. However, it was 100 feet away from where I had hid it! How does that happen?
I don't know how people place it 100 feet from where it was hidden!
Is the there any chance they thought your coords were 100 feet off?!
I'm very new at this but I can't imagine deciding the coordinates being so wrong that I would move it on my own. At least not without a very clear indication that the cache was not where it should be such as a description that the cache is in an orange barrel chained to a light post and that was the only one in the area. My one time I found something I felt was in the wrong location I made note of such on my log for the find but left it where it was and contacted the CO directly explaining precisely where I found it (and left it). It was in the spot wrong but it was also possible I was wrong about where it should have been. I was wrong once. I think it was a Tuesday.
However, someone felt it necessary to move it and this was probably the result of the described cover not being there anymore. However, that person didn't mention that in a log nor contact the CO. In this case, though, it was only about a dozen feet. -
I was giving serious thought to hiding one on the road right of way on my property. Then I started thinking about the logistics. It's a one lane road so they would have to park in my driveway. I spent a lot of years teaching people not to park in my driveway and do things they were doing. It wasn't Bible study by any stretch of the imagination. My house sits about 10' above the road and I can't see the end of the driveway. I don't want to start that problem again and I don't want to listen to the alarm going off either. Another problem is I have a ham radio antenna tied off with parachute cord down there where I can reach it easily. That would be untied quickly and often and I would be real unhappy to have my antenna laying on the ground and on top of my car.
If I get rich and famous some day I would buy a different place and that would give me the option of putting a cache there. Trouble is if I become rich and famous I probably would be trying to figure out how to keep people away from me instead of giving them coordinates to the place.
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I see a lot of people who just EPIC FAIL at just being happy.
Now that's hitting the nail right on the head. I've read a few threads about lost caches and trackables and the drama over it is so amazing that you wonder why they bother. In fairness though, a bunch of them are threatening to quit playing. I fished with a guy **once** who complained the whole time about losing his rigging to snags and the occasional fish. My own fault too because thinking back on it every fishing trip he talked about involved how many lures he lost. He didn't seem to be enjoying fishing.
Great you went ahead and did the trash pick up anyway. Not sure whether you meant the law thought you were crazy for geocaching or for picking up the trash. I've run into more than a few people who think I'm crazy for picking up trash.
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A couple weeks ago I found what I initially thought was a log at a site that I had manually entered coordinates. Turned out not be the log and I also entered the coordinates wrong so I was in the wrong area anyway. But it got me wondering about finding an actual log but not a container. I almost lost someone;s log to the wind one day. What's the feeling about counting a log only found? Personally, I doubt I would since I found a cache once that my GPSr insisted was 100 yards away. If I have the log but not the cache I don't think I would feel sure that I was in the right place? I probably would not count it -- and what do you do with a log in that situation? I don't see doing a throw down since it's quite possible the log got lost to the wind and I'm creating a problem by doing so.
I tend to look at caches as something I accomplished and, if I didn't, why count it? I am a ham operator (new) and I'm keeping track of different milestones that there are awards for. I'll never apply for those awards because I don't need a piece of paper to tell me I did it because I already know I did it. So if I'm not getting a certificate to impress someone else, why claim I did it? I probably wouldn't log caches other than I can see that it's the easiest way for me to personally keep up with where I've been as well as providing the opportunity for feed back to COs and other hunters about problems. I located one earlier this week that from the clue it was a rock solid 100% fact that where I found the cache was not where it was supposed to be. That gave me the opportunity to indicate that for those coming behind me (without telling them where it was) as well as contact the owner with good detail of the situation so he could fix it -- assuming I wasn't just full of myself thinking it was a rock solid fact that the cache was in the wrong location.
I have counted as found without a log signature for something like a water soaked log especially since the cache had several entries about that very problem. I wonder about things like wasp nests or a snake that decides he doesn't want to leave the cache that he's curled up with. He lives there so I figure I shouldn't be messing with him. Besides, the biggest majority of snake bites come about from messing with them. For myself, I think that if I can actually see the cache I would count it without signing a log. If I can't see that the cache is there it's a DNF. If I see what might be the cache but might be a piece of litter instead, it's DNF. I'm not a fanatic about signing logs if it gets me hurt. Of course, I won't count as found a cache I can see that's in a tree that requires me to climb -- too many injuries and I count it as a good day of I don't fall down just walking so trees are out. Likewise, I know exactly where a cache is that I can put my boat right over -- it's 80' deep and I don't scuba dive.
Guess it's a long way around to say that if you're going to lie yourself it isn't much of a hobby but there are plenty who do. I didn't get appointed boss of the world and I don't own any cashes so it's not skin off my nose. I may well run into a CO who thinks my exception for signing his log is not acceptable to him and he'll delete the entry. If so, fine. I won't cry about it.
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Understood that it affects 10 people. I have not said it's right that it happens, just that it is inevitable that some of them are going to disappear or get damaged. I have specifically said it is not something that fills anybody with joy when it does happen. The point that you do not seem to get is that each person needs to understand that it is possible that some will disappear or be vandalized and then decide whether the loss of their items will be so earth shattering to them as kill their enjoyment of the game. If so, don't play the game because you can't change the fact that things will disappear. And it doesn't matter if there are 1000 at the hotel -- each person decides whether it is an acceptable risk. If 10 people decide that it was not an acceptable risk then there would only be 990 items there and all are owned by people who decided it was an acceptable risk and have not had their world ended because they individually lost something of minor value.
Let's get it real clear - it is not right when someone steals or vandalizes something whether it's worth 20 cents or $20 or $20,000. However, it is not the end of the world when someone steals or vandalizes your cache. It wasn't the end of the world when my son's house was burgled and set fire to but is sure was a major problem and still is. That is something to get up in arms about. Losing a cache is not. I hope you're not thinking that we need to go hunt down the people who do this stuff maliciously and kill them for it. A lost cache is not worth all the drama that some people seem to think it is.
For myself, my wife and I have ordered some trackables. We fully realize that once we release them the odds of ever having them in our hands again is very low. The point of releasing them is so they travel and not sit in on a shelf in our house. We further realize that some or all of them may be lost in the first month and from our reading that isn't unusual. So while we won't be happy when/if it happens we won't be devastated either. Life will go on for us.
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Having someone cut off my lures would not be something I like. But if I found someone was under water cutting my lures off I would mitigate the problem by moving to some place where someone isn't under water cutting my lures off.
I will repeat the basic point -- people will steal a cache, others will vandalize (in a local one someone put a used condom in it), kids will find them and think the world of that McDonald's toy not knowing any better, the city will decide to clean up that overgrown lot where you hid a cache (as I saw happen earlier this week), an animal will find it and play with it, a flood will carry it off, and the list goes on and on. There are none of those ways of losing a cache that would make me happy but if I'm going to put out a cache I accept that I am taking a chance of losing it.
You do what you can reasonable do to reduce your losses but you cannot eliminate them. My son lived in a low crime area, locked his doors and windows, and had smoke detectors and fire extinguishers. That did not stop someone from breaking in, stealing several items, and setting fire to the place. You think I'm happy about that? Risks were as low as was reasonably possible but it still happened and it happens somewhere everyday.
Now lets get back to reality here. We're talking about a cache with a couple of dollars of trinkets and some sweat. It isn't the end of the world when one disappears. But if the sadness of the loss exceeds the enjoyment of placing caches then you need to stop placing them. Otherwise recognize that while the losses will diminish the enjoyment it doesn't eclipse it and accept it as the cost of doing business. My opinion, YMMV, and that is just fine.
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Reading this thread it strikes that like the one on trackables, many people don't understand the concept of the cost of doing business. This is a hobby and it has costs associated to lost caches or trackables. If you play tennis you don't buy just one tennis ball, in golf you don't buy just one golf ball, in fishing you don't buy just one lure. You're going to lose them. For me, it's fishing and I lose lures. I can mitigate it by not throwing lures near places where they will snag and break off but that's pretty much where the fish are. You don't catch many fish throwing lures where the fish aren't.
So if you're going to do caches or play with trackables, you're going to lose some. You can mitigate it but you're still going to lose some. So you can place a cache in a city park easily accessible to everyone but also being in danger of being vandalized, lost to the lawnmowers, or animals. You can mitigate that by putting it 10 miles out in the country where fewer people will find it and you won't lose it near as often. Decide which you prefer and then do the best you can to mitigate losses. But there will be losses.
However, someone felt it necessary to move it and this was probably the result of the described cover not being there anymore. However, that person didn't mention that in a log nor contact the CO. In this case, though, it was only about a dozen feet.
Geocaching and risk taking
in General geocaching topics
Posted
Probably the biggest risk is people who are not honest about their limitations. Would I climb a tree 15 or 20? No. Put a ladder there and maybe. Physical issues tell me no to using the limbs of the tree to climb but a ladder can be managed depending on various ailments and how they are acting that day. My wife might physically be able to climb the tree but has height issues. So no for her even with a ladder. Put a strong limb standing out from the tree a couple feet high with the cache reachable from that limb and I could manage that -- if the arthritis isn't acting up too bad that day. In that case I come back another day when it isn't. Well, to be truthful, since my wife and I cache as a team I'd just let her get it since she can handle low heights for the most part.
Caching as a team is mostly an activity for us to do together. However, with my back, bad knee, arthritis and so on, being in out of the way places alone probably isn't too bright. When you've put your back out by picking up a piece of paper off the floor, sneezing, or just leaning over someone's shoulder to help with a computer problem, getting out alone a mile off the road on a slippery trail looking for a lock and lock under a rock a hundred feet down and off the trail isn't a good idea. Throw in wet weather like the day we did that together and you're really asking for trouble.
Common sense kicks in too. Someone on here has mentioned a few times about reaching into a spot he couldn't see and getting bit by a copperhead. When I was young I learned that lesson unplugging hay from a hay baler. Rattlesnake didn't appreciate the ride he got when the baler picked him up and tried to bale him up with the hay. Fortunately I was smart enough not to put my hands in a place where it could get cut off and he only got to fight with the pitch fork. I assume he stayed away from hay balers after that. So I don't reach into things I can't see into and come prepared for that.
And while I wouldn't climb that tree or scale a rock wall, I wouldn't put down someone else for doing it. Know you limitations and the risk factors for that particular time.