Dread_Pirate_Bruce

Here's my 2 cents on permissin: Someone suggested that “Lands and properties open to public access that have no direct prohibition against geocaching can be assumed to be acceptable hiding places.” I’m mostly in agreement, but would add that the assumption is dependent on whether finding the cache requires rooting around. Take lamp post caches, for example. I draw a distinction between caches hidden under lamp post skirts and caches that are openly attached to the lamp post itself. My current favorite example of the latter are junction box covers that are magnetically attached to the lamp post itself. A magnetic cache attached to the lamp post itself is little different from a flier taped to the post or an empty soda can left standing atop the skirt. Its not really “messing” with someone else’s “stuff” as is the case with lifting the skirt. If finding and grabbing a cache requires conspicuous activity, I see it as an “adequacy of permission” problem. There is no way to discretely grab a cache that is under the skirt of a lamp post or a newspaper machine. (And that does not even count looking under several newspaper machines for the cache, first.) It seems to me that conspicuous activity requires more permission to be considered “adequate.” However, grabbing a cache that is attached to the lamp post or hidden behind a guardrail or a sign can be done without drawing undue attention and needs “less” permission to be considered “adequate.” As to caches that are in plain sight, I’ve seen a number of caches that are junction box covers, some painted to match their surroundings, affixed with magnets. They don’t require getting into anything, disassembling anything, etc. In fact, one of my favorites of this type is attached to the support post of a pay phone. Hundreds of people pass within 20 feet of it every day. They can’t but help see it even if they don’t appreciate it. It is so obvious that graffiti artists have scratched their marks on it, but have otherwise left it entirely unmolested. I doubt there was express permission for it. However, it would be little different from a passerby leaving an empty soda can or a flier. If you would not get in trouble for leaving an empty soda can, then permission to leave an empty soda can/cache or equivalent should not require permission.

I would expect that this runs afoul of the Americans With Disabilities Act ("ADA") as it bars pacemaker patients. There is a fellow here in California who has been suing small businesses for the most minor violations of the ADA. I understand that he sued one restaurant because the mirror in the restroom was too high and because the pipes under the sink were not insulated. I understand that he has been making a good living with such lawsuits. I, of course, do not approve of such things, but mention this as the sign is not well conceived.

I'd think that if the cache had to be removed from an anchor, brought to the surface and then replaced, it wouldn't be. First, there is the problem of bouyancy. To keep it from rocketing to the surface, it would need to be weighted even when not tethered to an anchor. Using a BCD to provide bouyancy might not be adequate or even safe. A lift bag might be required. That takes added skill. Second, there may be navigation/visibility issues. Most divers are not good enough navigators to find something unless the viisibility is quite good. Add to that the fact most divers are not trained in underwater search patterns. Even parking a boat at GZ only puts it within 20 feet (6 Meters) of GZ, which is a problem in poor visibility. But, assume the diver finds the cache and brings it to the surface. (At 11 meters, you really don't have any problems with the profile that would prevent the diver from returning to replace the cache... that is assuming the dive was only to recover the cache.) But, to replace the cache would require finding the anchor a second time! And, what does a diver who can't find the anchor a second time do? Much better is a mesh bag that uses an offset from a known point on shore. If you want, that point could be the second in a puzzle. Whatever the case, I'd like to dive it.

I'm not fond of micros in lamp post bases. Any location that warrants a cache that can be put into a lamp post base, could probably support something better. I've seen some great micros that are in plain sight but are camoed or disguised so that they aren't muggled. For example, rather than a magnetic micro hidden behind a guardrail (especially if it is between the guardrail and support post), how about a reflector? How about a magnetic junction box cover plate on the outside of the lamp post rather than something under the base? Or how about a fake sprinkler head in the planter next to the light post? Beyond that, if a cache is going to be hidden under the base, it could be much larger than some of the tiny micros I've been seeing.

Respectfully, if 4 planes had crashed into a Walmart, Walmart would have hunted down and neutralized potential threats and would have done so in a more aggressive, expedient and frugil manner.

I don't carry as much as some, but carry only a few things beyond what I've seen listed. These are hand sanatizer, latex gloves (also cotton work gloves), telescoping magnetic pickup tool, telescoping mirror tool, tape measure, clipboard and orange work vest (these make me invisible to muggles). I also have a pre-printed decoding card for deciding hints.

I left a logbook aboard a 113,000 ton cruise ship. ... Does that make the ship a cache? Unfortunately, the thing is usually in motion so I can't give coordinates that last for more than a couple of hours at best.

Canoe Guy: That is a marvelous cache. It seems to me that the real challenge and fun of placing a cache in a non-wilderness venue is to see just how big and obvvious you can make it without it being spotted as a cache and without it being muggled. It looks to me like you were quite successful.

When I’m looking at specific cache locations using “Hide & seek a cache,” I get the option of getting a map by clicking on “Geocaching.com Google Map.” It displays a wonderful map with all of the local cache locations plotted. It appears that “Google Map” is the engine for this. What data does one feed “Google Map” to get it to plot such points? Also, is there some way that if I click on the map (especially the satellite view) that it will give me the lat/lon for the spot I clicked?

For what is's worth, there is currently what might be deemed a log only micro cache aboard the cruise ship Diamond Princess. While the ship's movement negates any lat/lon for the cache, its location is easily describable to within 15 feet. It is in plain sight from even a fair distance away and is easily reachable to anyone on the ship. The container and placement make it look like it belongs right where it is and that it is exactly what it is disguised as. Once I figure out how to report the placement, i.e. lat/lon, I'll do so.

I've only been caching for a short while. But, before I go anywhere, I get data on a cache or two and look for them. It is especially fun while on vacation elsewhere. But this is how bad it is: I was at a friends for dinner. I went to the refrigerator to get something, saw the tupperware containers and immediately thought about all the finds I could log. I was already on my PDA when I realized all I'd found was leftovers.

First and foremost, I am not related to Happy Humphry. Second, I like Happy's thoughts in post #50. Third, I swear I'm not related to Happy. My HH stands for something completely different and the 242 is integral to it. Fourth, other than for kids, is the trading really that important? I like the idea of getting out and going to interesting locations. Sure, I could go there anyway. But, once I'm there, the hunt for the cache adds a little something. What's in the cache is largely irrelevant...the reward is in the journey. That being said, sometimes micros are the only kind of cache that can be used in a particular location. When it is cleverly hidden, it is fun to figure out where it is. Even a micro under a lamp skirt is ok if it gives me the chance to both get out and to hunt. I realize that micros under lamp skirts, especially if they are in nonremarkable places is little more than non-destructive "tagging." But, isn't it better to find a "lame" cache than to sit at home and watch tv? Respectfully, Bruce

I'm new to this, so I didn't realize there was such a thing as a sig item. Without realizing it, I've been leaving them anyway. My wife makes handmade artistic buttons from bottlecaps. I've been leaving these about if the cache is more than a micro.

I've been within 15 feet of two of the ones I found since I started. I was also at two virtual caches.