elmuyloco5

A Tom-Tom doesn't let you play games, watch movies, listen to music or surf the web on wi-fi. The reason you'd get a PSP is because it's a lot more than just a GPS. That is why I was interested. I totally understand that. I already have my PSP for games, etc. That's exactly why I wanted this to work as it would be a cheaper alternative to the TomTom plus another handheld GPS. What I was saying, is that to make the PSP work as a GPS, it's not much cheaper than just buying a TomTom (or other similar unit) and the TomTom or other unit would have the entire US mapping system (or other country if that applies) already loaded to it. You see, you have set the price of the PSP aside. Say you already have one, the GPS connector would cost about $60, plus money for a large enough memory card to use solely for the mapping portion. Even if you already have a case, it's not much cheaper than the TomTom which is about $100 right now. Yes, the TomTom isn't much of a handheld unit, but neither is the PSP. The program is more for driving navigation than off-road usage. The issue isn't that the GPS won't work, or that you can't get it for a decent price, the issue is the software you have to use. The mapping program for the PSP requires that you "cut" the map out to use. You can't have the entire US at all once in one fell swoop. You might be able to contain all of the map info on a large enough card, but I don't know that for certain. But I will say, most people won't have the patience to sit down to make the maps of the whole US, even if you could. I hope that makes sense. The gentleman talking about his PSP above, said that it took him 12 hours to make his first map when I emailed him asking about it. There is a serious learning curve on this software, and it's a bit tedious. You know, you can download the program for free and try it out on your computer prior to purchasing the PSP, they have it at Mikehacks.com and he also has video and screen shots of it. Or go to YouTube and type in PSP GPS. There's tons of video on it working. It's a neat idea, but definitely has it's shortcomings. I'm definitely not suggesting not to buy a PSP. I love mine....well except how the games are containered and the slot to insert them, but I do understand why it was built the way it was. It's definitely a much nicer product than my children's DS. You can get a nice case for it at Gamestop complete with a car chager, game cases, etc. for $20. It's a wonderful gaming system, the web-surfing is a bit more difficult than using a PDA to surf the web, but I would recommend the system to anyone. I'm just not sure I would recommend the GPS portion of it. Maybe if they came out with some better software, I would.

We tried out the mapping program and I do have a few problems with it. First: you have to cut all of your maps, it's not like a straight load it on to the PSP and you have mapping for the US. Which is timely, and could also cause issues if you travel alot. What if you don't have the map for an area that you need to go to unexpectedly? Second: I could be wrong as I haven't messed around that long on the mapping program, but I don't see anything to really allow for itinerary planning. The mapping software, and the way it works on the PSP is more like a program you would find on a driving GPS unit, not a handheld GPS. Itinerary planning is one of the most basic desires one would have for a program focusing on navigation while driving. Again, I could be missing it, but I don't see it. It would be wonderful if you could use the TYRE program that a guy wrote to use to plan routes for the TomTom units. It utilizes both Google Maps and Earth and does a real nice job of both. (it doesn't transfer completely to the TomTom----my gripe there---but that's a TomTom software issue, not the program's). But the planning is quick, customizable and since it utilizes Google, you can use it for both coordinates and addresses. Third: While it has a few neat points (and personally I think the screen views are nicer than our TomTom), it's not really any cheaper than getting an entry level TomTom. The GPS add on is about $60 on Ebay (maybe less if you bid and don't use "buy it now"). Then you'll need a designated memory card for the maps to hold enough so you can still save games, etc. You can get a TomTom, with the whole US and Canada loaded on it for $100 after a rebate. We really wanted this to work, but it seems like more of pain than it's worth. The software is not easy to use at first and it's time consuming to make all of your maps. If you intend to use it out on the trail, while you can easily protect it in a good case, it is cumbersome and larger than a typical handheld to pack. We had hoped this would be a good option for us as we're not completely satisfied with our TomTom and we would have loved to save the $400 we were planning on spending on a new handheld. In the end, we may stick with our TomTom and buy the Delorme Pn-20.

From what aspersson said, the premium membership should take care of the lack of info on some of the items. He has one to work with. I read on this review under Fig. 27 about the problems initially. The tech did stress that he had the same problem. But, I don't have one to mess with, so I can only go by word of mouth. I think what you have to consider is how much you will expect this unit to do. Are you currently caching with a PDA? Are you expecting this unit to replace your GPSr and PDA units? See for us, this is what we wanted it to do for the hefty price. We already have a PDA, the only reason to pay $600 is if we can also sell our PDA. Here's the best pic I could find to show where you can enter info about the cache by using waypoint edit . This screen on Fig. 17 shows the screen before where you are supposed to edit the waypoint. On the edit screen is where the tech said there were a couple of lines open to enter text info about the cache. Personally, I think the space will be too limited for the info I would like to be able to enter (what I currently can with my PDA). Maybe that's too much to ask, but I feel like if I have to start carrying around a pad of paper to record things down after spending $600 and selling my PDA, I've gone backwards not forwards. If you don't currently cache paperlessly, or you don't mind that the features aren't as complete as you PDA and Cachemate, then maybe this unit will work perfectly for you. For us, it just doesn't make sense. That's not to say it's not a nice product. It's just too pricey for us with it's limitations. I certainly don't want to deter people from buying the Colorado. I just wanted to point out the problem I saw as the info that there currently is on the subject is still very limited and the paperless caching hadn't really been explained thoroughly.

Glad to hear something will work, but be careful what you put on the unit as if it's not listed as something that works with the Colorado, Garmin can void the warranty if problems arise.

We have used the Fusion paints on a couple of cache containers (after cleaning well) and still have them flake over a short period of time, especially at points that move alot or where the lid connects. I have also used it for other reasons on rubbermaid containers and have not been impressed. I'm really tired of vacuuming up the paint chips they leave behind.

Just thought I would come and mention a few issues I see with the Colorado after speaking to one of their techs on the phone. Please keep in mind that I do not have a Colorado and have not had the opportunity to use one, these are just my observations after talking to them. 1st issue: Not true paperless caching. The tech on the phone, as well as several reviews of the Colorado state having inconsistent information downloaded for caches. Some you will get the description, date, size, hint. Some you will only get a snippet of info. Plus, if you are to compare the capabilities of the Colorado to paperless caching with a GPSr and a PDA, one would also need to be able to put in a variety of types of information. With Cachemate on a PDA, you can input a log, tidbits of info like answers to puzzles, etc. You can also transfer that log to geocaching.com. I can input info about travelbugs and geocoins. The gentleman I spoke with said that the only place that you can input info like that would be on the waypoint edit screen. You are allowed to fit in a small amount of text in the "notes" field. He said it's about 2 to 4 lines of info. That's not much to place a log, TB and coin codes, puzzle info, etc. If you're looking for paperless caching equal to what a PDA can offer, you won't be satisfied. 2nd issue: The maps are Topo only with major freeways. I saw on the other thread that some people are hacking and placing 3rd party software on them, but there isn't anything available for the unit for good street mapping as of now. This again, was the info I got from a tech. For us, the Colorado doesn't offer enough to warrant it's hefty price tag. Sure, it does Wherigo, but honestly, that "game" is going to be slow going especially outside major US cities. If we lived in LA or something, maybe it would be a pull to get a Colorado, but for our little NM town we just won't see Wherigo for quite awhile. Sure we could make some ourselves, but that would be like only placing caches and never caching. Not quite as fun. We had tried the Tritons as we are currently Magellan Platinum Meridian owners and ended up returning both units we tried. I will spare you my review of it on this thread, but will be posting my thoughts on another once I receive my refund. We are instead looking at the Delorme PN-20. Mapping is better than the NG Topo on the Magellans, it gets great reception *according to reviews* and it costs $200 less than the Colorado. You get all the top topo and street maps for across the US and they're giving $100 worth of free additional software right now. Hopefully the Colorado price will come down quickly to make it worth the purchase.

We personally did one in the fake deer poop container that was sold on Ebay. I will give a HUGE warning not to buy one of these. We asked ahead of time if the container could sustain snowy conditions, it did not and literally disintigrated withing two weeks. What we found left was beans covered by the plasticy resin they used to make it. Yes, that was ......BEANS! Why in heavens name someone would make a cache container USING food for their design was beyond us. It's a shame too as we placed it in an Elk viewing area.....we thought it would be funny.

My father used to work at one in NM (#78) when I was a child. #75 is incorrect, Angel's Peak is near the Four Corners and not Carlsbad, which in the Southeastern section of the state. Will have to ask hubby if he's seen bodies in glass containers when he gets home from work. That one gave me a good giggle.

No luck. I just tried what you suggested. Connected to VantagePoint, sync'ed up 200 geocaches, powered down the GPSr, disconnected USB, and powered up the GPSr ... WSOD. The only way I know to update firmware is through VantagePoint. Is there a way to check on the magellan.com site (other than e-mail alerts to which I already subscribe)? Sorry it didn't work. I was hoping that might be the issue. Yeah, you can check for updates for your specific unit on Magellan. Go to Products, then GPS units, then the model you have, then Product Support. This will pull up a page that has FAQs and such on it. Towards the bottom there is a section that says Updates. If your unit has any, it will tell you that there is. The one for the 2000 and 500 both say that updates are available for the units and must be downloaded through Vantage Point. I don't know if anything will ever be downloadable through the internet, but it's a place to watch for them anyway incase VP doesn't notify you.

keep your eyes peeled for updates on the units. I just noticed a recent one for the 2000 and 500 that weren't there a few days ago on the Magellan site. Don't know what they are updating (just got our unit today and hubby had to go in for the night shift. I promised him I'd wait to mess around with it until we could learn it together), but maybe this is the fix *fingers crossed*

Yeah, the Colorado just isn't out there for the average cacher to use yet and therefore you won't get any "true" reviews on the item. It's important though that you realize that with either unit you will most likely go through a period of glitches and waiting for firmware updates. Because they are new to the market, they will both have their share. If you're looking for a unit that is ready to go then you might want to look at one of the older, but more recent, models of GPSrs.

You mentioned that you disconnected the unit while it was still powered on. Have you happened to try downloading the same amount of caches to your unit, then powering down and disconnecting then? Just curious if it would make a difference. Edited to add: keep checking the Magellan site or your Vantage Point software for updates. Some were recently added for the 2000 and the 500 models. I'm sure that the other units should be close behind.

I heard rumors that the Triton would allow for paperless caching, but all contact I have had with users of it seem to think otherwise. The Garmin Colorado sounds promising in this area though. I'm keeping my eye on it. Paperless caching on a GPS with U.S.A. based support!! It doesn't look like any of the units will offer what a PDA and a GPS will. The Triton 1500 or 2000 may as it has a touch screen, but they are not the units I have and therefore can't comment on them. The Colorado may offer a total display of info (we'll have to wait and see), but without a touch screen, I don't see it having the ability to input info (or at least not anywhere as easily) as a PDA. Without inputing info, you can't log your visit while you are out and about without a notepad. A PDA and cachemate will allow you to do this, and then to download your log to the caches you've visited online (doesn't work if you also log a personal geocoin for your travels). Some of the new units might get us closer to the idea of complete paperless caching, but it doesn't look like it will be a perfect solution at least for now. But to answer the OP: Paperless caching means that you don't need to print out any of the online info for caches that you want to find. A PDA along with a program like Cachemate will allow you to bring along the cache description, 5 past logs, the hint (and decode it), and all the other info about a cache that you might need. It will not give you maps. It will also allow you to log your visit like I stated above. If you have a GPS unit you are content with currently, just look for an inexpensive PDA on Ebay or Craigslist. It doesn't have to be anything special and will get you started. I think most people are spending around $30-$50 for a used one.

I just got it in the mail today and will be trying it out over the weekend before making my review, but did want to post a little snippet. So far things look good, I haven't had it freeze up (but I did know to do the software upgrades prior to using it....so I'm sure that helped). A couple of issues: With the Triton: --I do have to agree that there is only one Nav screen that will allow you to customize and then retain that customization. The other screens allow you to customize the info, but do not keep it once you have deviated from that screen. I am hoping that this is something that was unintentional and will be fixed in firmware in the furture. I will be contacting Magellan to note this issue. With the Topo States Software: --We tried to download our state maps and found that we were given two of one disc and not the final disc we needed. I don't know if this is a one time mix-up or if a entire lot of them were mispackaged, but a pain none-the-less. We have contacted the store we purchased from and will see what we get for a response. Has anyone else had this issue? Anyway, more to come.......

No offense taken, and no I had not done anything to indicate my gender, at least that I can remember. I just wanted to point out that there are some "shes" on here too. I am open to hearing other sides. Maybe my wording could have been better in my post. I just don't see anything changing my view on that subject as I was taught that cleaning up was the "right" thing to do. It's such an ingrained part of my being ( I am admittedly a neat freak....although I have loosen up since I've had kids, much to my husband's relief, I will say). But since it's such a natural part of who I am, I can't foresee changing my views no matter what someone says. That's not to say that I don't welcome everyone's opinion on here and respect it, for if nothing else, than the fact that it's their's and they have a right to it.

I selected "Magellan eXplorist XL" and in the first line of my comment I wrote "MAGELLAN TRITON 400 ISSUE" Something gives me the feeling that the Magellan marketing department, the folks who administer their website, and their tech support/call center do not coordinate their efforts. Seems they are a tad behind. I couldn't believe that they hadn't included their new line throughout their website. I found many areas that the Triton was not included and should have been. Sounds like they need to be looking for some new website staff.

In that case I will not trouble you with any further responses to your posts. I find this very hard to believe! What would be the point? Would you respond? "There's no chance on Earth that I will change my mind" is a pretty strong stance. He has made it crystal clear to us that his mind is closed, and that he will not consider anything else anyone has to say on the subject. I like elmuyloco5, but with that statement he has gone from debating to pontificating. I therefore see no logical reason to respond to elmuyloco5 in this thread any further. First of all, I'm not a "he". Secondly, I've read everyone's side, and even stated that I can see some people's points about certain aspects. But I consider my views on cleaning up the world/ keeping the world clean as part of my personal morals and values. If you call this "closed minded" then I guess I am. I call it standing for what I believe in, and keeping my moral belief system intact. I would feel like a hypocrite not to. I never said I wasn't willing to listen to your side. I simply said that sometimes we should agree to disagree as you wouldn't change my mind about this subject. Would you rather I lie to you?

I'm not making things up. You even said that only "some" will pick up any trash. Will it make a difference? Maybe a bit. But if someone picks up a small bag of trash from a huge pile, little overall improvement is made. Is it some, yes.....enough to really improve the area...no. If most cachers picked up, then yes. I didn't say CITOers don't matter, please don't put words in my mouth. I also never said that anyone who claims to CITO is lying, again please don't imply that I am. I'm not in any way against a cacher picking up at a cache. I do it myself and think it's great when others do too. But, I do believe there are too few of us willing to do it, to really clean up an entire area that is deeply trashed that a cache is placed in. Without a concentrated effort through CITO events, a large expanse will be highly unlikely to ever be completely cleaned up by waiting for the few CITOers (and by few, I mean in percentage when compared to the total numbers of cachers out there) to clean up a bit each time they cache. My point was not directed at the overall effort of CITO, nor was it directed at the overall benefit that cachers have given by CITO while they are out caching. But, I think that you know that. You appear to be trying to pick a fight where none is needed. I'm not interested in an argument with you RK. I'm allowed to my opinions on here, no differently than you are. I never tried to change anyone's mind. I have stated from the beginning that these were MY personal feelings about the subject. Let's try to be nice.

Personification means to apply human qualities to a non-human object or subject. I'm not sure how I'm doing that, but it's not a point worth arguing. I agree that nature is changing. And I can see your point that human litter can be in some ways compared to a bird's nest. However, a bird's nest (given that it is using natural products and not trash from humans) is completely biodegradable. That is not true of human trash. A bird's nest, in time, will have no adverse effect on the environment. We can't say that about all human trash. I don't think my view takes a momentary snapshot of nature. If you take humans out of the picture (hence taking away any human produced item) there would not be human produced trash. Yes, humans are part of "nature", but in this thread "nature" isn't being referred to as human. It's speaking of the land, trees, animals, etc. As you stated that nature is changing, so is how is we live as humans. It's "natural" for humans to work at making life and their surroundings better over time (i.e. advances in medicine, inventions, environmental advances like recycling, etc). In that spirit, it is human nature to want to clear our planet of trash (or at least to confine it to specified spaces). I don't think it's out of the ordinary to want to see that. If that's imposing my ideals on nature, that's ok with me. It's in my blood to want to improve life for others. I simply know no other way to be. It's ok that you disagree with my views. I have no problem with that. But, it still won't change "Me".

Yes, it is true that a cache gets us out there to the spot. However, you are assuming that because a cacher has arrived at the site, they will do the right thing by helping to clean up. The problem is that most will find, sign the log, and leave. The site will be no better off than it was before. CITO events go for the sole purpose to clean up, and a bonus to find the cache. That is the unfortunate mentality of those who leave the trash as well. "One more bag of trash won't change this area". I'm not saying that you are littering, so don't get all crazy about it. I'm just pointing out that litter-ers have this mentality as well. Visual litter always degrades the surrounding environment. Whether the cache is placed first or after the other trash has accumulated doesn't affect the fact that trash makes an area look bad. Adding to the problem doesn't improve the situation. Once piece of trash may not make much of a difference in certain areas, but that mentality used by enough people can pile up to alot of trash. I haven't commented on whether things are against the guidelines, again guys, this is my opinion of the situation as I clearly expressed. I merely stated why this form of camo doesn't suit my tastes and why. I’ll repeat: Such hides as you describe, in my opinion, represent very poor understanding of the concept of "camouflage." As you point out, the use of trash-camo in such an application just doesn’t make any sense, and doesn’t seem to be relevant to the topic. I made this comment to address what you had said about a trash cache being ok if it was hidden or tucked away. (sorry I don't have your exact quote, it's not on the page I can scroll and forgot to click the quote button....but I'm sure you know what I'm referring to). I don't think that this happens often, which was my point. And certainly, it would make no sense to hide a trash cache this way. But, that's my point. These caches are placed out in the open. Keep in mind. Nature is indifferent. Nature doesnt care about litter, your cache, or you. We as humans care and we are variable in what we choose to care about. Some people care enough to pick up litter in the wild. Others care more about keeping the litter off the floor of their car so they toss it out the window. Litter is wrong becasue the majority of us have chosen to believe so and have enacted laws against it to show our resolve that it's wrong. A maintainced cache isn't litter even if it uses urban cammo. Abandoned ones are litter even if they are hidden perfectly using natural camo. You are right about perception though I'm not sure you commented on it directly. If the public thinks it's litter it is litter. Perception is reality (though not always the truth) and we have to deal with reality. The perception would make it so that not ever spot is a good spot for urban camo. I'm not sure how you got out of my comments that I thought nature "cared", but so be it. I commented in my quote above that I saw the value in keeping our planet clean as nature was intended, not how nature intended it to be. I'm not personifying nature. I'm saying that before humans took over an built up areas in nature, it was clean and not full of trash. Hence, the way nature was intended to be. Yes, now it's built upon, but trash strewn about and not contained in areas designated for such matter, is not a necessary or sanitary part of human existance. Controlling and confining our trash to specific places is popluar because it's just good practice for our health as well as aesthetics. I commented on perception here: I think it's best to agree that we disagree on some points. There's no chance on Earth that I will change my mind that litter is bad and that any cache adding to the appearance of obvious litter is doing a disservice to the environment and the geocaching community. I do feel that these containers have their place and can be used, but that they work to all of our advantages when used in a way that doesn't negatively affect our surroundings.

Interesting. I often CITO when looking for caches. I do too, and yes there are CITOers out there. But if we could look at these caches (or even all caches placed at least a year ago---we'll give them that amount of time), what percentage have been cleaned up? I know I haven't cached for a long time, but have found many many caches sitting amongst trash. These caches aren't new. They've been there for a year or more and therefore given the CITO cachers out there an ample opportunity to clean up. If your theory worked, the sites would be clean when I happened upon them. I cleaned where I could and hand time to. I did not clean at each cache as sometimes I just didn't have the time. I wish your way worked, I really do. It's great in theory and in a perfect world, it would take care of the problem. But, I think we can see when we cache, it just doesn't do enough.

I didn't experience the instance, someone else on here did, and I doubt they were lying about their own feelings on the subject. I've seen plenty of notes on people's caches to help clean an area up, as well as trash bags in their cache container to do so. Both are great ideas, however, when I get there, the trash is still strewn everywhere, which suggests to me that the "note" isn't working. When I place a cache, personally, I CITO the entire area "visually" within my cache (with the exception of one that required too much help.....it's not at the cache site but along the way there. It's an unfortunate area where alot of muggles hang out near a hot springs. This area, I intend to hold an event next Spring. We went to CITO it prior to releasing it as part of our series and the snows had already begun for the year and you couldn't see the trash any longer.) I don't leave it up to other cachers as I know it's unlikely that it will be cleaned up that way. It's sad, but unfortunately the truth. I would like to think that I'm wrong in my theory, but just the fact that this thread is here shows that the sites aren't being cleaned. Do geocachers perform CITO and thus provide a huge benefit to our community, sure. Does the average cacher partake in CITO on a regualar basis, sadly no (still a great idea someone gave on another thread to award a green smiley for CITO...might get a few more members a reason to clean up). Can you place a note on a cache? Sure. Will it encourage some cachers to clean up a bit, sure. Will it ensure that the area is totally cleaned up and therefore "change" the area for the better? Highly unlikely. A "trash" container isn't likely to encourage anyone to clean up and given that many are found in areas of garbage, it shows that it just doesn't work towards that goal in any way. CITO events and spreading the word are still the most effective ways to clean up our environment.

I encountered the same issue and I emailed the Magellan webmaster to point out the lack of Triton "options" on the website. I was going to email them with a question as I knew the phone lines would be busy the day after Xmas, and I couldn't because I had to make a product selection in their menu and Triton did not exist. Hopefully they will recognize this problem and have it fixed quickly.

Also keep in mind that looping anything around a tree branch where it will be consistently one size (i.e. tying something around a branch, etc) can be more detrimental to a tree's growth than a nail or other object being hammered into it. Make sure that your "string" device doesn't "strangle" the tree in any way, and when you maintenance the cache, check to make sure that any "loops" are still large enough to allow the tree to grow. As far as containers, I would suggest you check out Walmart. I found some in the sporting area that are water tight (similar to an otter box) and have a strap connected to it that you could attach it to your rope/line to secure it. They're nice boxes and around $5-10.

That is a possible outcome. But so is what someone else said in a previous post that frequently CITOs, they didn't clean up the area because they didn't want to take away the cache's surrounding camo. I think they mentioned how torn they were and how badly they felt leaving the trash behind. It's great to go into the whole thing assuming that someone will clean up there, but unfortunately we all know what assuming does for us. Not to mention that there is a relatively small percentage of people that actually do CITO frequently. Pointing out an area that needs to be CITOed on your local caching website, or holding a CITO event is a much better way to spread the word and actually get something done about it.