Cache U Nutter
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Posts posted by Cache U Nutter
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In reply to the many posts on 'Extreme caches' including that of my own.
I have just set up 4 X 5*/5* multiple caches in Surrey which have been given an additional difficulty rating, or extreme grade to grade the challenge according to the Danger involved in reaching these caches.
The caches, Slither, Tip Toe Wall - Warming up for the Beast, The Beast 666 and Beastleytoo partially involve the use of climbing equipment and in some cases there is a real risk of falling and or being hit by falling stones.
There is a degree of difficulty in reaching the coordinates and the challenge to reach all 4 takes about a day.
The 'Extreme rating' E1-E10 reflects the likelyhood of being injured or killed in doing these caches and is based on the U.K mountaineering/ Climbing grading of climbs.
Hence a D5*/T5* would in addition have a E grading as well.
It may explain why these caches have not [so far] had a second successful attempt at them.!!
I am thinking about putting up a cache which involves a 200 ft wild abseil off a overhanging limestone cliff.
To reach the cache you either have to swing in under the overhang into a cave,or alternatively abseil in further along the cliff then traverse/ swim to the cave [with climbing gear]and then climb up with difficulty at a grade E4 level .
You then have to either reverse this procedure or climb up 200ft.
Puts the comments posted into some kind of perspective as regards there being very few places for 5/5 caches in this country, and shows how Geocaching can move on in many different tangents
By the way I have been climbing up the Ben in winter in conditions akin to the wildest experienced anywhere in the world. and certainly in areas where your average walker would not dare to tread!
Perhaps some of the 5*/5* caches in existence should include the Extreme level classification[E Grade] to save any confusion.
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It is clear to me having read the various forum logs, that Geocahing has now reached the stage in its grading systems that the rock climbing fraternity puzzled over some 40 years ago.
The climbers[i being one of some 31 years experience] realised that they required an extra grade which they called 'extreme'.
This was then sub grade E1, E2,E3......E7 reflecting the overall difficulty of the climb taking into account the risk of injuring yourself if you fell [i.e no protection] , and the overall mental and physical challenge of the whole experience [ including the walk / hill climb to the start] E7 being the most difficult
The degree of technical difficulty was then assessed with a technical grading system which related to how difficult the actual move/s would be irrespective if the climb was on an exposed sea cliff or at 10 ft off the ground on a boulder in a park.
This system works very well and could be adapted by the Geocaching community for the harder caches i.e those currentely graded 4+
Until then any cache that I put up involving a degree of physical difficulty, or perhaps a little scary would be graded as per the rating guidelines but with a more precise description in the text box
it could well include a climbing grade.
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On the subject of 4X4 and Geocaching, one only has to look at the U.S forums to know that these gas guzzlers are a basic tool in the geocachers box of tricks.
There use over here must surely be discouraged as they are not required.
If you study the mode of transport prefered by U.K farmers including upland areas it is far more likely to be a Volvo or Merc.estate [usually old and well used]than a 4X4.
If you look at the tyres they use however they are usually heavily treaded possibly winter tyres.
I frequentely see the damage caused by 4X4's in the countryside, and I know that in many cases they are legally entitled to drive them they really should be regarded in the same way as a smoker in a small restuarant as social parias.
Intresting to note that when I was in the Alps in Feb, despite the horrendous road condits with snow and ice on the hilly roads, there were very few 4X4s around, but lots of ordinary cars using snow/ winter tyres.
Reality check required I believe, in a few years these owners will look back and cringe with the thought that they once owned one of these vehicles!
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Sorry to report and may be it is just a one off, the actual quality of the Morrisons snap n lock boxes are not that good.
I put one out on a cache in January and allready 3 of the clips have snapped off.The first came off after a week.
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Sounds great, but what does it do for me?
What exactly is the purpose of this exercise ??
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I placed a cache in Chamonix in February this year on top of a mountain
'THE HIGHEST ACCESSIBLE CACHE IN WESTERN EUROPE' GC1113G which still has not had a FTF !!!
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not a great idea buying a 4x4 at all.
The energy used in 1 year is equivalent to leaving your fridge door open for 7 years!
In Europe we tend to use smaller, conventional cars with decent tyres and they are more than adequate. I was in the French Alps 2 weeks ago and my snow tyres were more than adequate for all road use.
Remember we all have to share this planet.
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I was sking in the French Alps 2 weeks ago and recorded 69.4 mph whilst on a Blue slope. I probably would have gone faster but I lost control and crashed in a sensational way ! was unhurt and beat my sons attempt when he achieved 64mph.
My daughter said that I was probably going faster, as the GPS only records horizontal distance travelled and does not take into accountthe vertical element as well. Anyone got any thoughts on this matter?
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Its a shame theres no method of highlighting a potentially dangerous cache location to the admin team on gc.com. Surely if there are multiple logs all saying the same thing, that would be enough evidence to archive it?
Gavin
If you think there is a dangerous cache, you can always drop a note to a either the cache owner or a reviewer about it. If you think it's really dangerous and have had no response from the cache owner you can log a "should be archived" (SBA) note on the cache which the reviewers will see.
And welcome to yet another Edinburgh cacher!
Perhaps someone who has visited the cache recently can confirm the state of the cache and report to a reviewer? I have not been there since last Spring. It was certainly dangerous then and I notified the guy who placed the cache [ via a log] and he promptly removed it!!
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Battery cover screw stud broke on my unit[ Garmin Vista CX and they replaced it free by return of post, had no trouble getting through to them at all.
This contrasts the service recieved by Tom Tom where it is impossible to speak to anyone and there e mail help line works on some mad loop!
It is also impossible to down load their free upgrades [voucher provided with new unit] I will never ever buy a Tom Tom again!!!
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Whilst on the subject of dangerous caches, Motorway Mayhem GCTX68 [M40 jct 11] must rate as one of the filthiest cache locations in the country. The usual detritis from a nearby burger van is everywhere, but add to this used nappies, condoms and hyperdermic needles and you have all the elements required for a trip to the local A&E. On my visit I also found a beer can that had been converted into a drug dispenser having a tube inserted and a 'hood'!!
I was a newbie when I looked for this cache and it could have put me off caching for life. The signal was not too good and I was crawling around in this filth to look for this micro. If you look at the comments from other cachers you will see similar comments, -- suprised it is still in existance.
perhaps we should have a forum on ' Filthiest caches in the UK ?'
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It is clear to me having read the various forum logs, that Geocahing has now reached the stage in its grading systems that the rock climbing fraternity puzzled over some 40 years ago.
The climbers[i being one of some 31 years experience] realised that they required an extra grade which they called 'extreme'.
This was then sub grade E1, E2,E3......E7 reflecting the overall difficulty of the climb taking into account the risk of injuring yourself if you fell [i.e no protection] , and the overall mental and physical challenge of the whole experience [ including the walk / hill climb to the start] E7 being the most difficult
The degree of technical difficulty was then assessed with a technical grading system which related to how difficult the actual move/s would be irrespective if the climb was on an exposed sea cliff or at 10 ft off the ground on a boulder in a park.
This system works very well and could be adapted by the Geocaching community for the harder caches i.e those currentely graded 4+
Until then any cache that I put up involving a degree of physical difficulty, or perhaps a little scary would be graded as per the rating guidelines but with a more precise description in the text box
it could well include a climbing grade.
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Try my latest caches in the Box Hill country Park.
Box Hill Fort GC10JRK a sneaky little nanno on an old fort
Juniper Hill GC10JPK great view after a steep walk
Broadwood Tower GC10JNM fantastic view strange building
Baba Surb TE ton GC10JNNX a mystery
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I am a climber and carabiners are fairly usefull items certainly this weekends trip to the Lake district would have been great fun without their use !
as a slight sidetrack to these discussions are there any caches placed on rock climbs that we know about?
Obviously this would be great for existing climbers as a strange divertion from usual goals and could be graded[ and described as per normal climbing gradings i.e E1 5c]
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Thanks ever so much for your help, I think I know what to go for now You have clarified the problem so wellThanks for your help on this, I do alot of hillwalking so the SMC system looks good ,but only useable in Scotland no doubt.No, they cover the whole of the UK. I mainly use them when caching in Wales to see if there's an easy way around that big hill infront of me rather than having to walk over it.......
Did your Vista cx come preloaded with the UK Roads and Recreational maps or did you download it from somewhere?No I downloaded the Roads and Recreation maps. Mine came with the same international base map as yours.
I use them at the same time as the contour lines - the maps are transparent so they both show up. The roads and recreation maps would be no use on their own for hill walking since they only show the same level of detail as TomTom - they are yellow for most areas and green for national park areas etc. but where there are no roads they are just blank. The SMC contour maps fill-in the blank areas with contour detail allowing you to see the hills.
Can't help with the routable maps I'm afraid since I don't use them. I use my car SatNav to get me to the parking coordinates and then switch to my Vista when out walking.
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I can bore for Britain on this particular subject.
If you own a Garmin unit that supports auto-routing, you can only get this to work if you install map and auto-routing data from one of Garmin's high end software such as City Select or City Navigator. Both are only supplied with hardware at "home" or very expensive as a standalone product abroad. For example, in the USA, a Streetpilot comes with CN USA and they can buy CN Europe. In Europe, we can buy CN USA. Complicated - yep! Expensive - you bet! These high end software programmes are protected through codes that only allow the software to work with a specific unit via it's internal serial number.
NOTE: City Select Europe is no more - when CN Europe V8 was issued, CS was stopped. I mention it for those who may still use it.
However, Garmin will allow an owner a second unlock code for free. So, if you already own a Streetpilot (or other unit that came with autorouting software) you can use the software with a second unit. This is what I have done, I use City Navigator Europe V8 in my Streetpilot 2610 AND a Vista Cx.
With Garmin's blessing, I recently sold on my old Vista C along with CN Europe V7 unlocked for that Vista C. (Going well down there in Cornwall Chris?). V7 is the end of the line for the Vista C due to its fixed 24Mb of internal memory.
By the way, if you can get your hands on an old copy of Metroguide USA V4 - it includes autorouting data that can be installed into your Vista C and will enable it to autoroute (in the States of course). The map data is well out of date but it works...
Thanks for your reply.
Just to clarify, I can purchase City Navigator Europe from Garmin which will work on my Vista cx which will enable me to utilize it in the same way as a Tom Tom, i.e give me turn by turn instructions along roads to allow me to reach my destination[ although obviously without voice commands]
Some kind cacher also recomended UK Roads and recreational maps , would this also be usefull for cross country caching hill walking ? and would it be able to run together with the CN software? I would have to somehow switch between the 2 for it to be of any use
Many thanks in anticipation
Any ideas?
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I've got the UK Roads and Recreation maps on my Vista Cx. It's about as detailed as my satnav although it is not "routable". I think you need the metroguide maps for that? I can't tell you where to get them from, but I'm sure that question would create a bit of a torrent of advice!
I've also got the Scottish Mountaineering Club contour line maps on as well which are great (and free!) for caching since you can see where the hills are, and possibly ways around them.
Thanks for your help on this, I do alot of hillwalking so the SMC system looks good ,but only useable in Scotland no doubt.
Did your Vista cx come preloaded with the UK Roads and Recreational maps or did you download it from somewhere?
Cheers
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I have to say I find it remarkable that so many people have a bee in their bonnet about Bags -- get a life!
We find it remarkable that you do not view the use of poly bags wrapped around the outside of cache from the wildlife perspective.
As I said and I quote "where appropriate"
i.e you would not use a bag in a field of cows
It would be intresting to find out from a profesional person in the know about these things i.e a vet or a member of the R.S.P.C.A as to how many animals have been injured through the injestion of plastic bags used in typical cache locations.
The rats in my loft have come to no harm chewing up bags [although they would if I could catch them!]
not sure what other animals would be that keen either
guess i'm opening up a large can of worms here !
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1] if a plastic lunchbox is placed in a very muddy or dirty area without an outer wrapping the dirt/ mud migrates into the box as soon as you remove the lid.
I can think of many cachers who will disagree with you, primarily because the mess migrates inside the bag anyway.
I was able to remove the lid of the cache whilst it was still in the bag and in doing so kept the contents dry.
...and this is my real reason for responding. I nearly always carry a spare bag with me. Uses include a surface to sit on when the ground/seat is wet, a pooper scooper and a way to open a cache and sign a log while keeping the rain out of a cache.
Good point, carrying a bag in rainy weather a very good idea
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I have to say I find it remarkable that so many people have a bee in their bonnet about Bags -- get a life!
They are very usefull if used correctly :
1] if a plastic lunchbox is placed in a very muddy or dirty area without an outer wrapping the dirt/ mud migrates into the box as soon as you remove the lid. You also end up with dirty hands which is not a good idea if you are writing in the logbook. With a bag you can empty it carefully and the box is clean and intact.
Hence the old 'Opal fruits' double wrapped theory holds true
2] Yesterday I found a Cache in the pouring rain.
I was able to remove the lid of the cache whilst it was still in the bag and in doing so kept the contents dry.
Without a bag the log book etc would have been soaked
Perhaps there are situations where a bag is inappropriate and these should be addressed to the owner
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My vista cx came with a International Marine Point Basemap, Jan 2001 loaded onto it
I have to say it is pretty useless in terms of detail.
I have a Tom Tom vehicle GPS as well, and the base map is infinitely better.
Is it possible to download a better base map? and even maybe use the garmin in the same way as the Tom Tom i.e route directions [allbeit without voice commands] ?
The tracklogs O.S 50k software which I got as part of a package can only be used to download predetermined waypoints otherwise no detail ca be downloaded
Can someone help me please or am I just expecting too much?
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Try here you may need to register.
There's an interactive cache map and loads of other stuff available too.
Thanks Mark and Lynn
Will give it a go !
Andy
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I am new to this game and love it !
Having trouble however identifying cache locations as it would seem this can only be done through Postcodes or proximity to other caches.
If I don't know a post code close to where I am traveling how do I look up a cache ?
At the moment I am using a road atlas to identify a nearby town and then doing a google search on the town to identify businesses and their post code. There must be a simpler system ?
I am driving from Brighton to Glasgow next week and would like to ''knock off easily accessable caches en route.
Can Anyone help please !!!
Many thanks
Two left Ferrets
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Found a cache the other day which was in an area that I would consider dangerous to others.
Adjacent to the cache was an area strewn with litter probably enough to fill 2 skips including used nappys, doggy waste bags, needles and other evidence of drug use.
I reported the matter to the cache owner but he deleted my log !
The cache was described as being suitable for kids but I would disagree.
As a newbee I request your views
Safer Category - Extreme Caching
in Website
Posted
I agree wholeheartedly
As someone who has put up a number of 'extreme' caches recentelyI know that the existing grading is completely useless as a way of describing overall difficulty.
A straight forward abseil to get to a cache would be a 5/5 grade , but there again a challenge involving some degree of risk i.e of falling or being hit by stones is given the same grade despite it being much more difficult and dangerous.
Also, a future cache I intend to put up will involve a wild ,free abseil over an overhang, where to get to the cache you wound then have to pendulem in to grab a rock spike and then free climb out. Saying that thecurrent 5*/5* grade reflects this challenge is laughable!!
As a climber and mountaineer of many years, I see the futures great for this niche of Geocaching where people want to do something a bit more exiting and maybe involving a little bit of a risk [ or even a big risk- please refer to my 'A Bridge Too Far' cache]
I have in fact incorporated a climbing degree of difficulty grade to reflect the seriousness of the undertaking to get to some of my caches.
Really looking forwards to more people putting up more difficult caches and thank the british reviewers in particular for allowing me to push the envelope [ as described in the guidelines]