Cache U Nutter

Not that Old Man, but this indeed would make a fine trad. I climbed it in 1978 having taken 3 days to drive up from London [picking guys up on the way] My liver took weeks to recover from the amount of whisky that was drunk, the climb was easy in comparison! The Trad cache I am after would not be allowed for guidelines that state that I have to be able to maintain the cache which given the fact that I live in Surrey I would not be inclined to do! which is fare enough.

Not that Old Man, but this indeed would make a fine trad. I climbed it in 1978 having taken 3 days to drive up from London [picking guys up on the way] My liver took weeks to recover from the amount of whisky that was drunk, the climb was easy in comparison! The Trad cache I am after would not be allowed for guidelines that state that I have to be able to maintain the cache which given the fact that I live in Surrey I would not be inclined to do! which is fare enough.

If I can I use a Nissan Micra i.4L I firmly believe that we should be reducing our carbon footprint, and geocaching is not the most 'green' activities around.This car has a 36-40mpg fuel consumption I can sleep easy at night and know I am doing my bit to save the planet !! If longer distances are required I take my Ford Focus estate which now has all weather tyres and can take me practically anywhere in most weather conditions [driving to Swiss Alps in Feb]. 4 wheel drive vehicles are not required in the UK and generally speaking are not acceptable unless you are a 'chav' [slang brit word] I believe things are different in other parts of the world however !!!

I am anticipating submitting an idea for an earth cache in the U.K The only problem being that the venue for the cache is on a rather inaccessable geological feature that would would be graded 5/5 if it was a trad. I don't live anywhere near the location and even if I did would not be inclined to maintain it in the traditional way it being so remote and difficult to access. [although I shall be visiting in September] The U.K reviewers have discussed the matter and conclude that it would make a good earth cache as it would not fit in with the guidelines for a trad cache [not living nearby, neither does anyone else for that matter] That said it would not be reviewed by U.K reveiwers I should add that I am a geography graduate and a climber so I am certain that the location would be acceptable for the meeting the 'educational' criteria. albeit that they would have to be pretty good climbers This is obviously a much higher grading than any other earth cache that I am aware of and wonder what you guys in the big wide world think of the idea? It really is in a stunning and photogenic location !!

Try tjapukai's 'Dorking by Sounds series, a few of which I have completed. His are very difficult but the idea could be adapted for new caches [for the masses and not the few] GCXED7 ,GCZMAG [very irritating music on this one!] Tjapukai is a very ammenable chap and i'm sure help you out further.

Go for it guys, @ E1 it would truly be the most difficult around in the U.K [Assuming that no aid avail or under an overhang] getting chalked up already for the challenge but put it on a well protected route please!! Not sure that I could get a FTF as not going up to the lakes this year! Jealous that you guys are 'up North'

My point precisely, a drive in a comfy air conditioned vehicle to a cache which you dont even have to climb or abseil to. Don't touch the UXB as indicated and hey boy this is a walk in the woods [actually that could be more challenging!!] Seriously though it does highlight my comments that by assessing the risk and overcoming any problems then any challenge is within your reach. And yes this does sound a good challenge but hardly extreme. Depends on your definition of extreme I suppose, i'd rather abseil/canoe/hike/bike/crawl naked over glass than navigate a minefield to be honest! We thought it was pretty bad, at least a 5 hour walk back to civilisation if the car broke down, definately not something you want to do in 100+ degree temps in summer, unexploded mines, mortars and god knows what else and then there's the snakes, oh yes the snakes, oh and the "hunters" taking pot shots at you whilst you recover the cache in question! A quick edit/ I guess if you placed a cache in the middle of an area containing unexploded munitions in the UK i would imagine (read hope) it would be archived el pronto! Falling from a 150 high cliff / getting destroyed by a UXB same result I suggest. You must have gone off route as the cache notes suggest if you came across these obstacles and would suggest that 5M away from a UX mortar at the cache site[where you actually have to dig it out and strike the nose cone detonator for it to be a risk even if it was not a dud]. Everything hunky dory unless you GET LOST!! Would suggest that crawling naked through broken glass really is dangerous though !!!

My point precisely, a drive in a comfy air conditioned vehicle to a cache which you dont even have to climb or abseil to. Don't touch the UXB as indicated and hey boy this is a walk in the woods [actually that could be more challenging!!] Seriously though it does highlight my comments that by assessing the risk and overcoming any problems then any challenge is within your reach. And yes this does sound a good challenge but hardly extreme.

Hang on guys, it is worth it!! and your is on my list!! I get satisfaction from putting them out as well and intend to add a few more this year. So far I have not really seen a single really hard cache out there [including my own on that list] and I intend to make ammends. Get your bags packed Bashfull !!! Bring em on I say, yet to do many of them myself however as have mobility problems [finding an excuse to justify to my wife why I should burn gas to risk my life! did a few last month but they did not justify their grading.

RE : GCTA5E [not GCT0SE as stated] I would certainly shy away from writing out the ridiculously long cache notes, I usually opt to leave these on a stage of the multi. As for the challenge, if you actually read what is required / read through all the crap, the actual challenge only involves a 10ft ab down a shaft to collect the cache. The fact that you have to wear all that gear makes all the other safety threats minimal. Extreme cache placement and extraction is all about risk assessment and management of your capabilities. Nothing more/nothing less and this is certainly a challenge that I would relish !! Oh by the way have spent time in these suits at Dungeness nuclear power station and very comfortable they were too! Only problem with this cache is its location,not somewhere I am likely to visit in a less than desirable tourist areas of the otherwise fantastic country. If you really want to try some serious abseils, then try 'THE BEAST 666' GC11KM7 or BEASTLEY TOO GC11M36 Remember, no cache is worth dying for!!!

Fantastic, this looks the business ---will try it out Many thanks actually no, it did not work as it only came up in O.S format and not in WS ? Some thing I missed?

Fantastic, this looks the business ---will try it out Many thanks

I do agree, prior to the cache going to review I will have an accurate [well averaged anyway] GPS reading. But this is prior to arriving at the prospective cache site.

I'm sure this topic has come up before but cannot find any reference for it. Is there any way of getting an accurate coordinate from a map on a web site? [WGS 84 format hddd mm mmm] There are references provided on Google maps but they do not relate to the coordinates taken from my GPS. [for some reason] I used a bridge over a river as a reference point so it should really have been spot on. I wish to prepare cache notes prior to review/ publication but as I cannot visit the site myself at this stage I am at a loss what to do. Previously I have used an O.S map grid reference and programmed it into my GPS set up under O.S settings and then changed it to WGS 84 format but this is only as accurate as the reading I have manually taken off the map. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers and festive Greetings to you all, glad that no one has been injured on any of my caches yet!

put it in a bag with the message ' send it to 'Cache U Nutter 'Surrey, Great Britain' as I have a number of extreme caches of my own and undertake others around the U.K !!!!

My cache GC1113G 'The highest Accessable Cache In Western Europe' at some 2500m [7500ft] and grabbed by our very own jerryo is higher !!!!

What, do you mean it costs more than sixpence now to get in. What has the world come to?

You have my complete sympathy. The footpath coverage near me is amazing ,only a very few pedestrians use them. The steep hill around Reigate [surrey] makes it dangerous to cycle on the roads and it is accepted by the council that the 'footpaths' can be used by cyclists. In my view the laws regarding no cycling need ammending as they do not reflect the reduction in foot traffic and the increase in cycling. !!

View ian too's comments [logged 28th May 2007] as he attempted to retrieve my cache in Surrey, a dunking was always on the cards !!! RICE BRIDGE GC12DJP

I'm sure those were Gordon Browns shoes [well the soles anyway] that I saw as he had his head in the sand loooking for a cache!

Whoops , sorry about that! Just got a faster car! Cache U Nutter

Woops, i'm a bit behind with this one! Mr Dewdrop got there first ....... You are all saved from a nasty climbing/ dangeling cache !!

Surrey pour moi?

Regarding the proliferation of caches in the Reigate area [my home town] - yes there are quite a few and it does make the placement of caches difficult as they seem to to be everywhere! This is especially a problem where I have been placing some of my own 'Extreme 'caches. On more than one occasion I have been throwing myself off bridges [and the odd cliff] only to find that there is a proximity issue and the cache cannot be allowed ! That said the reviewers without exception have been really considerate and have advised me in advance whether a placement is a 'goer' or not. But it has put me off and most of the good sites are now not available Also, one of the major Puzzle cache culprits [tjpakuai] has kindly assisted me with proximity problems and kindly moved one of his own caches to enable one of my mad ones [Crazy Gang]. He has also ammended a multi cache to make it slightly easier for us mear mortals to achieve in an area of outstanding beauty which otherwise would not have been accessable. [North Downs Way Micro Trail End] 'Sadexploration 'has a good idea with his 'Novel Cache series' of slghtly difficult caches in which they will be archived after a year to free up the area for someone else to place a cache . A good example to follow I feel, what do you think? perhaps some of the less visited and difficult puzzles should be archived? Do I do puzzle caches? -not if I have to but there are different caches for everyone and that is surely a good thing?

As someone who pleads guilty to setting some similar caches I thought that I should get my pennies worth! The cache should be available to everyone, with no restrictions. As with rock climbing there is a general expectation attached to each and every climb one attempts. i.e there is a degree of danger and the attempt is likely to involve a certain amount of strenuous effort or agility. The degree of risk [of killing/ injuring oneself] is indicated by a severity [extreme] grade and the actual technical difficulty is indicated by a difficulty grade. Given that these type of caches are so new, no grading system is in place [although of course they are all 5/5] On a few of my similar caches I have introduced my own grading system to indicate that there is indeed varying difficulty. Some of my caches are in fact very dangerous as there is a risk of stonefall [The Beast666] where indeed tpakui got walloped in his attempt. others are not so dangerous but much more difficult to reach [a bridge too far] Would suggest all caches of this genre have a grading system included , Jerry perhaps you would think about this?