TeamJiffy

Hi - Nobody will likely believe this, but quite independent of seeing the article from the Orange County newspaper re: "New Game in Town: Habitat Damage" I've been thinking about rules for ecologically safe / non-annoying caching, and was going to post some thoughts on it today. I know, I know, we haven't placed any caches, and have only found 17, so we sound like the unmarried marriage counselor, who happens to be only 4 years old, but what the hey, that's the Internet - everyone gets a voice, whether they deserve one or not! Here are some thoughts... For all parks, consider: Should people be tromping around there, or is it a generally safe place for people to 'roam' - I am talking about environmental impact, not safety of hiker (that's difficulty level - "safety" for one may be "risky" for another) When visiting your cache, look to see if people have protected the environment around it - if new trails are leading to your cache, etc., perhaps it's in a bad place and it's time to remove it. For caches in urban settings, city parks, etc. consider: Micro caches - such as those 35mm film cannisters attached to magnets, or even a virtual cache that really needs thought. Make it a 'puzzle' Under brush that naturally lies around by some trees - in an area that is not ecologically fragile For caches in county/regional parks (usually more rural than city parks, less isolated than state/national: Keep on a trail, or just a couple feet away. Require people to have to wait until nobody is by a trail, vs. bush-wacking. Don't place the cache in a place which would encourage someone to go 'cross-country' to save time finding it, etc... If the park is a PRESERVE, meant to protect some areas of fragile eco-systems, consider not placing a cache in it at all, or doing the micro-cache or virtual cache variety. The goal should be to get people to the park Of course, talk to people running the park - explain where you would like to place the cache, and let them know they can always say 'no' - set a goal, make YOU the person they first discuss Geocaching with, vs. finding someone's poorly placed cache. Find out if there is a place that may be better - perhaps getting people to a nice part of the park they would otherwise miss... First impressions make a difference - make that park's first impression of Geocaching a positive one! For state/national parks: They are there for a reason. For us to enjoy, and leave to future generations to get an idea of unspoilt wilderness. We *have* an Internet site (this one!) to log our finds - and access to it is wide-spread. Perhaps, subtle 'markers' (wooden stakes - so if abandoned, eventually decompose) put in soil or rocks, with the Geocache Waypoint ID stamped on it and perhaps a 'secret number' to send the cache owner to verify a log, is enough to tell you 'you've found it' and this is far less likely to have people think of 'litter' vs. a plastic tupperware container or ammo box. The marker may also be a way to avoid people 'worrying about bombs' in caches. I know most of you may really disagree with me - but this is what I believe. And to me, finding the cache and logging it online is the important thing - actually opening the box, finding some silly trinket, and putting one in is a bit of an overhead. I wouldn't mind simply finding the little wooden stake/marker and recording info on it, and sending it along. Of course, people could 'cheat' and claim victories by sharing these - but we don't compete with cache find rates, of course! We keep track of our own progress.. I'm sure a few may like these ideas, and I am sure many would object, but as Geocaching grows in popularity, we seriously have to think about how we 'scale' the activity to large numbers of users in a way that society won't lash back on. I'd PREFER to have the ecologists and naturalists praise Geocaching for getting people out in the wilderness, vs. having them 'annoyed at the litter'. I love this activity. It has, seriously, brought me needed exercise and brought my wife and I closer together, in a wonderful shared activity. I worry about a day when people try to stop this activity in its tracks because of a mis-guided feeling that we don't care about the environment. We DO. We care about it more than just about anybody -Joel

I had the chance to 'borrow' a GPS V for a weekend of caching - I already own a Vista. Here are my (quick) conclusions - comment welcome, of course. 1) The GPS V is a lot nicer in the car - primarily because, in my car, the V will sit nicely on the dash, and stay there, with no extra support needed, for pretty much any driving that I do. 2) The total cost of the GPS V deluxe vs. Vista is such that if I purchased for the Vista everything that came with the GPS V Deluxe, I have paid more for my Vista than the GPS V. (grumble - that is _exactly_ my case). 3) The fact that I can track roads to the cache on the GPS V is not used by me - part of the fun we have finding caches is using the GPSr to 'hunt' the right street vs. using a map. So, tied here. 4) When there aren't trees (lots of caches in my area), the Vista is a LOT nicer... the light weight is wonderful, and a lot less obvious - especially in caches in urban areas (such as San Francisco). I can hold it by my head and do the cell-phone trick others do. Can't with the GPS V. 5) GPS V wins hands down in areas with tree cover. The Vista is nearly useless (for me at least) In summary: In my ideal world, I would use the GPS V in the car, and when I start walking, use the Vista, unless I am going under trees, when I would use the GPS V. -Joel

They should have their own caches, that they place themselves, on their own property, and use those to train. My reasons: If they have LOTS of people attending class, and point them to 'choose this cache' or 'choose 1 among 5' they may create an undue amount of visits on caches in the area. If these aren't their own caches, then the cache-owner is placed with a heavy burden of maintaining a cache that has 10-20 times the 'normal' visitation rates of caches in the area. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. If these are on public property, having CLASSES find any of a small set of caches will place a HEAVY burden on the environment in that area. Do that on your own property. If they want to publish their own caches on Geocaching.com, then they should open their property to any Geocacher who wishes to find those caches.

Welcome to GeoCaching! Fran (my wife) and I love it - we started on July 5th, and have already found 17 caches! (May not sound like a lot, but for one week, we were on vacation with her family, and we only could get away for one find.) It has gotten us outside, seeing places we didn't know existed! You'll find lots of good information on this website, (and some silliness too, of course.) Look at posts where readers talk about their GPS units, etc.

I read on the ABC news web page about "augmented reality" http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/cybershake020415.html ...I was just browsing around, thought about GPS, and searched for it, and then ran into a pointer to the Geocaching.com web site. ...It sounded interesting, but like lots of people, I procrastinated a bit - and didn't get a GPSr until early July. It was really Fran who got hooked on 'wanting to try' but once we did, we both quickly became fanatics! We still call ourselves "Geocache new-bie"s and probably won't remove that title until we get 50 caches - because we still feel we have a lot to learn!! -Joel

Trying to create a new topic... What do people think of caching with GPSr's? I carry one; but I find that I need to make sure that I don't hand it to children (or adults) in the group without proper training, since they could lose themselves in the woods with it if mis-used - that's why I usually leave the GPSr in a locked cabinet at home, and store it's batteries somewhere else, in a room different than the GPS. I also worry if people carrying GPSr's have a false sense of security, and perhaps perform bolder acts of walking further in the woods. However, I do view it as my right to carry this wherever I go. Thank God I live in a country where our right to carry GPSr's is not restricted, as it probably is in Communist China, where they don't want their citizens to know where they are. I personally own many GPS's, for different uses. "They can have my GPSr... when they pry it out of my cold, dead hands"

The determination of what is "appropriate" in the forums is difficult, once you get beyond the standard legal issues of libel/slander, personal threats, etc... The only two guideline I (Joel of "Joel and Fran") follow in ANY forum are "Don't be a jerk" and "don't be boring" The first guideline creates rules such as "Don't insult someone; don't swear; don't lie; don't brag (not that I *have* anything to brag about!!) etc. The second guideline creates some more subtle rules: One is this, which I think, when violated regularly, starts sounding the death-knell for lots of forums I have visited: Don't try to make the forums an "insider's playground" In other words, don't encourage silly 'lingo', don't use the forums as a replacement for private-email between a few friends, don't create cliques in the forum, where you reply to only a few old friends, and ignore newcomers. Another is "don't make the forum a platform for politics" (unless the forum's purpose is politics!), and don't clog the forums with silliness. (This doesn't mean that you don't joke around a bit - the balance to consider is to think of the forums as a dialog between friends spending a day with each other - you rib each other a bit, tell a few jokes, make a few silly comments, but you also don't usually perform stand-up routines in front of each other). Of course, all of this makes it sound like I over-analyze all of this and sit with a big list of rules, forming crafted judgements of all I read and post. Not at all! I guess what I am describing is the set of instincts I use when I read the text I am about to post, and decide if I like it or not. "To each their own", though... others may certainly disagree...

"Fran, honey, I'm sorry - I have to leave you. I'm sorry - I need to get a caching partner who doesn't share our allergy to poison oak!" [] "I understand, Joel, in fact, I have been noticing that guy over there with the GPS V - all you have is that little etrex" quote:Originally posted by Sabaharr:You are going out into the elements of mother nature. She likes geocaches. They are a poison everything magnet, oak, ivy, sumac, snakes, spiders, I have run across all of them. Its a fact of life in this sport. Stick to the inner city caches in parks and safe places if you have no immunity or are not willing to take the risk. Its part of the game and comes with the territory. I can sympathise with you though, my dad and daughter just think of poison ivy and need a shot to get rid of it. I have seen what it can do. Maybe you need to find a hunting partner that is not effected by poision plants that can make the actual retrivals when the danger is present. Its a problem you will have to figure out an answer for that is best for you. Sabaharr

"Fran, honey, I'm sorry - I have to leave you. I'm sorry - I need to get a caching partner who doesn't share our allergy to poison oak!" [] "I understand, Joel, in fact, I have been noticing that guy over there with the GPS V - all you have is that little etrex" quote:Originally posted by Sabaharr:You are going out into the elements of mother nature. She likes geocaches. They are a poison everything magnet, oak, ivy, sumac, snakes, spiders, I have run across all of them. Its a fact of life in this sport. Stick to the inner city caches in parks and safe places if you have no immunity or are not willing to take the risk. Its part of the game and comes with the territory. I can sympathise with you though, my dad and daughter just think of poison ivy and need a shot to get rid of it. I have seen what it can do. Maybe you need to find a hunting partner that is not effected by poision plants that can make the actual retrivals when the danger is present. Its a problem you will have to figure out an answer for that is best for you. Sabaharr

We are very new to Geocaching - we have found only 9 caches so far. We love this activity! But, we gotta tell ya', that more than one of them required either going very near poison oak, or the cache was immediately surrounded by it. We decided to try one tonight after work - but when we saw it was in a streambed filled with - you guessed it - poison oak - our attitude was "Okay - one more cache hunt searching for a container in the following 20' diameter area of poison oak? Naah.. don't think so". We've been there before, and we are tired of covering ourselves in Technu. We don't mind walking to our caches, going up hill, etc., having challenges - both mental and physical - but after a while, having the cache hunt's main challenge being avoiding the poison oak gets, well, tiresome. What do others think? Signed, Fran and Joel - searching for caches with challenges other than avoiding irritating plants!

I would love to be able to mark a cache as "Interesting" or "Wish list" or whatever you want to call it. As I peruse through caches, say, of a vacation area, it would be great to be able to mark certain caches as 'interesting' and then on the My Cache Page, see not only the caches I have visited, but also the ones I have marked as Interesting. Thoughts?

My wife and I learned of Geocaching just a couple of weeks ago, and picked up a GPS unit, and found our first Geocaches today (2 of them - both simple 1/1.5's, but it's a start!!) I want to tell everyone: This is more than fun for us. This is helping us. I need the exercise, and my wife loves walking outdoors. Having these goals of finding Geocaches makes walking fun for both of us - it gets me exercise, and lets us do more of something (walking outside) thats important to her. This is great!!