etarace

I was trying to make a point to contrast the realities between the two continents. For the typical American to go to "another country" they won't usually have work sending them (you're lucky!). There is two weeks off from work, plus the expense of travel (including flight/hotel/food) and all of the planning to actually make the trip (getting the neighbor to feed the chickens, getting your sister to walk grandma, getting time off work or school for all family members). It's a pretty big ordeal. In Europe you can easily cache in five different countries over the weekend on a whim. Also, I hate flying with a passion. Now that I don't live in Alaska so that I don't have to fly for work, I will avoid it as much as I possibly can. A Trans-Atlantic boat ride takes seven days (each way). If I spend two weeks in Europe, that is a month-long trip. So, really not an exaggeration in my case. I realize that I'm not typical in that I get to travel internationally (and domestically) for work, but I don't think it's typical to avoid flying either. For someone that *will* get on a plane, the time difference between east and west coast travel isn't significantly much more that travel from the east coast to Europe. It probably wouldn't even add a day to the overall trip. Compare hotel costs in San Francisco, Los Angeles, or Seattle and, for example, Portugal and you might find that the costs of accommodations for a week in Portugal compensates for the higher airfare to Europe. Once you're there, as you say, traveling between countries is pretty easy on the train. If you were to take a week off for a vacation, even if you only drove 100 miles away you're still going have to get the neighbor to feed the chickens, someone to walk grandma, etc. so that's a wash. You don't even to spend two weeks to see quite a lot. The first time I went to Europe I flew into Geneva, Switzerland, took a bus to Chamonix, France to go skiing and came back to Geneva the next day and had two days of meetings, then took the train to Milan, stayed overnight in Milan, then on to Rome for a couple days of meetings, then flew home from Rome. I think I was away for 8 days. Unfortunately, that was before I started geocaching, but I've since found caches in all three countries. Neither of us represent a typical American. And that's cool. When I first heard of geocaching there were exactly zero available within even a boat or snowmobile ride from where I lived. While I was there one was placed, but I had already forgotten about it until we moved to New York and my dog found one in a State Park. It is somewhat unfortunate that I don't have caches from Alaska or all of the places my job had me go... but at least I got to go to all of those places. The fact that trips to either Portland or Portugal from NY are comparable (in travel time and expense) actually supports what I am saying. If you're in NY and go as far as Portland, you are still in the same Country. If you start your trip in Portugal and go across the same distance to the west, that is most of Europe (around 50-ish countries). I am not discounting the fact that (as Ben0w pointed out) there can be lengthy and difficult treks through Europe. I'm saying it is also possible that a cache in "another country" might be as easy to get to as the time I got one in Bainbridge. I'm pointing out the fact that from a "typical American view" those giving advice might be over-complicating matters by imagining that "another country" is a very long way away. That (combined with my procrastination) is what caused me to contemplate what countries are in question. My original suggestion was, to me the obvious, multi-cache. Why add in websites and electronic components and Wi-Fi when there could be a simple solution that doesn't involve dead batteries or poor connection or somebody neglecting to reset part correctly? The distance and feasibility of travel between the two plays a big role in considering what can and should be done. That said, if Country A has three poorly maintained caches that nobody goes to why would the same guy who doesn't maintain those three want to place another one for nobody to go to? P.S. Yes, Canada, I do realize I have "another country" very close to where I live right now.

I was trying to make a point to contrast the realities between the two continents. For the typical American to go to "another country" they won't usually have work sending them (you're lucky!). There is two weeks off from work, plus the expense of travel (including flight/hotel/food) and all of the planning to actually make the trip (getting the neighbor to feed the chickens, getting your sister to walk grandma, getting time off work or school for all family members). It's a pretty big ordeal. In Europe you can easily cache in five different countries over the weekend on a whim. Also, I hate flying with a passion. Now that I don't live in Alaska so that I don't have to fly for work, I will avoid it as much as I possibly can. A Trans-Atlantic boat ride takes seven days (each way). If I spend two weeks in Europe, that is a month-long trip. So, really not an exaggeration in my case.

I looked at your first cache. Greetings from a fellow New Yorker. Just passed through your area about 6 weeks ago, although I didn't stop for any caches. Anywho, I'm not disputing what you and Mrs. Incredible say about anxiously sitting at the comptuter waiting to see who's FTF on your cache, as it's your own opinions. But here the first logger was NOT the first finder. Are you sure you just weren't waiting there to see if the cache was found by anyone, including multiple finders, and if the coordinates were good? Not necessarily to see who gets to type the "WOOHOOOOOO!!!! FTF AT 12:45 AM!!!!!" log? We have a handful of people in my area that like to try for ftf. They're not hardcore about it, but they'll take the first opportunity to try and get out there for ftf (even if it's a hike or bike cache). I enjoy their good natured comments and stories about getting the cache, or meeting each other at the cache site, etc. I recently placed 3 caches, and another couple people placed a couple caches, within a few days. It was cute watching the flurry of people running around, and they actually managed to be pretty even at ftf's, although an out of towner snagged one of them. You're right, Mr. Yuck (by the way, hello!) I am anxiously awaiting "finds" and not the "I SAW PLAYER2 ON HER WAY HERE SO I CREATED A TIGER PIT IN THE NEARBY CATTLE FIELD AND MADE IT HERE BEFORE HER WOOHOO FTF AT 12:45AM!!!" log. I was simply using Mrs. Incredible's thoughts to adjust my own attitude for the better. I intentionally left a log without a "FTF" space (don't worry, one was created by the FTF-er) and I have broken with local tradition by not placing a scrolling CONGRATS SO AND SO ON FTF logo in the description. The "FTF log" is generally selfish in nature, so I always felt bad for the CO (particularly if it was a good cache) over the fact that the logs were more about "I'M SO GREAT" than about "WOW WHAT A COOL CACHE!" However, as a brand-spanking-new hider, I now appreciate the fact that I get a notification email that it was found. The FTF hounds made sure I got two before I even went to bed. For that, I can be thankful. As a bonus, they both complimented my cache which is pretty cool because neither of them have a tendency to give hollow praise, and one has the tendency of always giving "constructive criticism" if there is anything that might be better. So, yay me! On the topic of the Scramble and Race for First. I recently have had two first to finds. On the first one I absolutely had to comment that I was shocked that I beat PLAYER1 there. It was like two days after having published, but within 50 miles of home (and a micro park and grab to boot) so those are usually snatched within the hour by one of the local FTF hounds. I had gone to a nearby canoe regatta so that's the only reason I was even nearby. Hilariously, PLAYER1 came to the cache ten minutes after me! This was my second first to find. Again, a few days old so I was surprised it was still out there to be first-ed. PLAYER1 went a few days later and claimed a co-FTF on the one a little farther up the river and reported that it was "more fun" .... he never went to the one I found, how does he know? This is really sad. It not only effects the CO's but the rest of the community that might be looking for those caches. Its the presence of abusive and harassing behavior that affects the community more than the missing caches. There is quite a big difference between getting a FTF unfairly and destroying caches with the nasty messages. Someone does one thing that might be wrong, so then someone else feels that they can do anything now, as "wrong" is just a single flat binary state. Its the thought that all sin is alike which creates a breeding ground for it to escalate. There are those in the community who now might now be afraid to do anything with a very destructive manchild abound. Yeah, everything everyone said here. I sent the CO an email telling her how appalling this event was and my hopes that it hadn't ruined geocaching for her and her family.

I was in the midst of procrastinating as hard as I possibly can so I decided to read this. I normally wouldn't because I'm in the "if I happen to get a FTF, that's pretty cool yay" camp, while sort of just rolling my eyes at the ones who will literally get out of bed to chase one. The_Incredibles_ actually made me re-think any less-than-positive-thoughts for the FTF-ers. I recently placed my very first cache so I have had to take my laptop into the bathroom in order to know the very instant somebody logged finding my cache. I wasn't surprised at the first three, but, now that you mention it, I was delighted that they came out so quickly! On the topic of beta-FTF-ing I did have my husband (who does not have an account) find it for me, he wasn't with me when I placed it in order to check my coordinates. I almost wanted him to sign it just to get the goat of the local FTF hounds. Some of you have mentioned event caches that get "found" before they are "hid"... how the heck does that happen? We recently had a Maker Madness Event, where a cache was made... then it was hidden with a DIFFERENT GC code. I have a smiley for the Event last month, and another smiley for the cache I found just today. Are people having "events" and listing them as "traditional cache"? Weird. And then.... Whoa. Just wow, that is so entirely messed up. I hope it hasn't ruined geocaching for that family!

Oh my gosh! That is so amazingly cool! I really hope they get it fixed. I don't see that happening. The cache the UK side was archived. I'm curious how this was implemented. Each required an electronic travel bug that had to be activated at the same time. I wonder how the device transmits it's status such that both would know that they're simultaneously active. I was thinking how one might replicate the idea and came up with this: Suppose a web site was created which required geocachers from two locations to connect simultaneously. The site, if based on HTML 5 could use the location API to determine the lat/long location of each geocacher, and thus confirm that a geocacher in New York City (where one of the caches was located) and a cacher in Los Angeles (where the other cache was located) were both connected, and would then display the final coordinate or each (or both) caches. If it works for two locations, there's no reason why it couldn't work for more. It could be set up such that 6 puzzle caches, in six different cities around the world, could be solved simultaneously. As long as the site wasn't commercial in nature and didn't require logging in (all you'd need would be to go to a specific URL) I don't see any guideline issues. After commenting I immediately thought... yeah, but people would ruin it. One guy would get the coordinates on side A, and tell friends on side A (who would never be required to do the simultaneous thing) then side B wouldn't have people doing it; the initial lack of interest combined with the cheating on side A making it impossible. Bleh. People. They ruin things a lot. Back to Ibar's original post. I am currently procrastinating as hard as I possibly can. I took this opportunity to check all of his finds from last winter (and then I checked them all ... because I am procrastinating as hard as I possibly can). There isn't a single city in which he has found caches that has only three. All have many. And they get found, and favorite points. So I'm really confused about what country it might be unless of course he never found any of these three caches either. Not that I'm attempting to e-stalk anyone, but it might be helpful to give advice on setting up geocaches if we knew the geography. You can drive between Malmö, Sweden and Emmen, Netherlands in about seven hours (for example). By no means a park-and-grab, but I have definitely driven that far for a nice hike (sometimes with a cache). Europe isn't as sprawling as the United States, and they also have a nicer system of trains. When an American thinks of getting a cache in "another country" it tends to mean a month off work. In Europe it's a day trip, if that.

Oh my gosh! That is so amazingly cool! I really hope they get it fixed.

Uhmmmm... I think we're overlooking the obvious: make it a multi. Stage 1 in Country A, Stage 2 in Country B (or vice-versa). You, the OP would have to set up both (you can't use an already existing cache in Country A for a stage). To get more traffic to the others in Country A you could write in your description something like "while you're picking up Stage 1, make sure you check out these other caches in Country A" if it is a reasonable distance.

There are a huge assortment of items that are "trackable" (coins and ... etc.) but it sounds like you want a more "personal" trackable thing, this is where the TB (travel bug) is good. When you get a "TB" it will be a set of two dog tags. That's all. One you keep, to keep track of the distinct tracking number, the other you attach to ..... ANYTHING. I don't know if there is a "usual" type at all... other than maybe a "cool looking key chain" but people get really creative, like you explained with a piece of art or a tractor tire or whatever. Size is again... whatever you want. If you want it to see more action I would keep it light-weight and smallish so people will actually carry it. I don't know stats to answer this. I do know that some *vanish* from their maiden cache, some hop all over the place, and sometimes they will sit in either a cache or a trunk for years and then suddenly show up again. It's kind of a gamble, but it's only like five dollars. I've never been to or used a cache specifically designated as a "hotel" for TB's. The first one I released I put in a cache that was a nice little woodsy hike, but pretty close to the airport. My thinking was maybe I would get somebody traveling farther, but definitely I would get somebody who will actually go on a hike. When I move TB's around I tend place them in caches that require at least a little hike, but are maybe easier terrain. They won't leave the cache nearly as rapidly as if I placed them in a rest area TB hotel, but at least I feel a little more assured that somebody who will make the hike is more likely to have respect for the purpose of a TB and knowledge of what to do with it (or at least an idea of where to look). That's just my personal views on it. I have a whole whopping ONE traveler I have released, but she is still moving and at a fairly good rate, and I get some nice photos of her in neat places. Sort answers are whatever you want whatever you want it varies depends on what you want

The "checker" is to check if the coordinates you come up with are correct. It's a really nice feature on puzzle caches so that you don't wind up wandering the woods at the completely wrong location. At a really quick glance I would guess the solution has something to do with counting the number of this-color-things for each digit of the coordinates.

For several hours now the banner at the top of my geocaching.com page has been a frog with a wrench and gears that says "Geocaching Statistics are currently unavailable. We are currently working to fix the issue." ... it's probably related. Wait for that to get cleared from the main page, then try re-submitting.

I just placed a comment on the "irk" thread: The people who are guilty of this "shortcut" technique (at least in my area) also tend to be the number hogs. A power trail to an honestly worthwhile cache would serve the purpose of at least keeping these people ON the trail. As for myself, I tend to skip the micros on the power trail and go after the good cache while enjoying the walk with my dog (as the OP intended). Neither my dog nor my husband want to stop every 161 meters, and to my personal caching style this is what I find more enjoyable. Also sort of in defense of power trails... I recently left a comment on a log thanking a CO for his placement of caches at trailheads and path intersections, as I use them for waypoints in finding my way back to my car.

Thank you ubaphygg. I looked at the websites, and they have some good maps. But then I came across this pdf for geocaching Doesn't this contradict the statement in question? What is state land other than highways, monuments, and parks? I can see why they would do it though... So many cachers bushwhack to a cache that says "just off the trail" right in the description. That's a sub-irk under the irk of destroying the environment: "bushwhacked in, found the trail after I found the cache." Granted, I have been in an area where I honestly thought that there wasn't a trail and made the best way I could to a cache before... only to find a scraggly path that looks like maybe it was maintained at some point a decade ago after I found the cache. The ones that irk me are the ones who repeatedly do this in parks that have well marked systems of trails, some of which are paved or gravel, and I'm pretty sure "bushwhacked in, found the trail after I found the cache" really means "tromped through, cut and crushed various flora and fauna I can't identify and didn't bother looking at anyway because I thought it would be a shortcut, heaven forbid I spend a quarter hour more in the wilderness, there's spiders and mud out here; after I found the cache I saw the well maintained path that the description told me the cache would be beside so I figured I would take that since it might actually be a quicker route to my car."

Go to http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#cachesaturation to read about minimum distances between stages of a multi. There is no upper limit on the distance between stages of a multi - they can span the globe, if you want them to. Proximity of stages only applies to PHYSICAL stages of your cache and other physical stages of other caches. Any stages of your cache can be as close as you like to stages of your cache. It's nice, but not compulsory, to warn cachers there may be a bit of distance between stages! Very useful information! Also, thank you for the clarification on the proximity within my own multi, I had initially thought that it applied to any physical aspect. This helps a lot. Edit to add: I should probably make my own topic over in the "how do I" section if I am going to continue this. Thank you for all of the very helpful information though!

Cool thanks! I will get to work on putting it up then.

Didn't read what Lep said? You shouldn't just take pornographic materials, instead you should trade for them. Perhaps some really nice religious tracks wouild be a good trade. I'd go with some nice health class brochures about VD. Or perhaps a condom... There was a guy who used to hide some spectacular caches in the area where I currently live. He would get so raging mad if religious material was left in his caches, and would immediately remove it and complain in his "maintenance performed" log about it. That is perfectly fine for him to do, since it is his own cache and he has control over what is contained in it and does regular checks to ensure that his caches are of the quality he desires.

Is that true? How can this be confirmed? My irks are: Destruction of the environment. Petty passive-aggressive fights in the log section. Cachers who write in the log "took a while to find this one, re-hid it where I thought it should have been" (it probably took you a while to find it because it was well hidden in the first place). I have seen this one a few times and always annoys me when it is one I haven't found yet because I then have to figure out where somebody else "thought" it should have been without the help of coordinates. Cachers who log a "found it" and say "didn't have a pen so I didn't sign it" on multiple caches (makes me think of the found it = dnf thread) People who either steal or otherwise neglect to log trackables. I only have one I own out in the world, but the sorry state of logging for the ones I have logged in the past (or not found in caches which claim to contain them) makes me reluctant to release any others.

I have a very similar question about a multi/puzzle cache I intend to place very soon. I saw once before, but can't seem to find it on the "Hide a Geocache" section of the help center. Is there a limit on how far apart aspects may be from one another within a multi-cache? It seems like I've read before that it must be within one mile, but I don't know if that was "official" or not. I intend to do a cache with multiple locations that you must go to in order to obtain information already there on existing signs (virtual portion of a multi) as well as things I have placed at the location (physical portion of a multi) and then take the collected information to find the final (not a micro on a guardrail). So... my question is, is there a limit on how far away points A, B, C can be from one another? If point A is so-and-so can point B be 15 miles away from that?

Don't the staples hurt? The "you're going to burn" leaflets can be used as fire starting material. Make sure to trade fairly.

Of course others "notice" it, and have since the beginning of the game. Your implied question was "does this bother other people?" You had two people (myself and Leprechauns) who not only are not bothered by it, but sometimes like finding them. There are a handful of people who are specifically annoyed by them, but generally decide to ignore them. Most people barely notice or care about them, and it falls under all the other trinkets that they chose not to trade for in the cache. The main time people have a "problem" with them is if somebody shoves 43 pamphlets in where it simply does not fit. In this case it is the same frustration if they were old romance novels, free drink coupons, or bead-necklaces in film canisters. The fact that they are religious material has little or no bearing on the annoyance. But this issue is not the "troublesome" smattering of tracts you have encountered. I never pretended to say "I win" and I don't place the tracts, so your ire isn't really aimed at me. I pointed out that CITO-ing a cache for over-stuffing and damaged items is one thing; but to remove (without trading) a specific single item from a geocache while overlooking a similar item that doesn't have the topic you personally dislike is hypocritical, and you are making yourself into a censor for cachers who follow you.

I really hope that your pamphlets point out the difference between sweet potatoes and yams. When people interchange these two, it annoys me nearly as much as when people call a muskmelon a cantaloupe.

If you're the type of person who cleans out "geo junk" (used McToys and 3-wheeled matchbox cars and broken necklaces) then I don't have a problem with you clearing out 50 pamphlets that are really just taking up space. If you take out one tract (that is in decent condition, and somebody might find either amusing or enlightening) yet leave one similar-sized cereal-box-comic book... then, that's just kind of wrong. I stalwartly disagree. Then you lose, and you're a hypocrite. As pointed out by others, there are items we all find in geocaches which are useless/offensive/dumb in our personal opinions (half sheets of Pony stickers, baseball cards, free drink tokens) so we just ignore them and leave them there for somebody who might actually find a use for them. Nobody is forcing me to read the stats on the back of a baseball card. Nobody is forcing you (or anyone) to read a religious tract. The person who placed the item gives anyone who finds it the option of looking at it or trading for it: you also have the option to ignore it. By removing it (without trading) you are refusing that "option" to anyone else who comes to the cache after you. I don't remove sports-themed items simply because I don't like sports. It wouldn't cross my mind to seek these items out in caches and remove them, or to complain about them being placed in a cache. I don't tend to go to the same cache twice, do you? You're not likely to come across those same tracts again if you left them alone. It's not like it's photos of aborted fetuses or something. (**Disclaimer, no offense to the aborted fetus photographers**) Just ignore them. They didn't bother you, you shouldn't bother them. By removing items (which follow guidelines and are in decent condition) from a cache you are acting as a censor for all who come behind you.

If you're the type of person who cleans out "geo junk" (used McToys and 3-wheeled matchbox cars and broken necklaces) then I don't have a problem with you clearing out 50 pamphlets that are really just taking up space. If you take out one tract (that is in decent condition, and somebody might find either amusing or enlightening) yet leave one similar-sized cereal-box-comic book... then, that's just kind of wrong.

As a veteran geocacher, I rarely trade for anything anymore. Find cache, sign log, leave the toys for the kiddies. As a Christian geocacher, the ONE type of trade item that will attract my attention is a religious-themed item. If you are removing these items, then you should be leaving something of equal or greater value. (Exceptions to this: if the pamphlet or business card is moldy/wet/ruined, trash it out, and if there are 43 tracts in a cache that can only hold five, remove the excess so that the cache can shut and seal properly.) Another commonly encountered trade item is alcohol-related swag. Beer coasters. Branded keychains. Business cards for local bars. And so on and so forth. As a non-drinker who's opposed to the promotion of alcohol, is it OK for me to simply remove these common items? Can I "yank that stuff out and throw it away any time I find it" because "it simply doesn't belong there?" The answer, of course, is "no." Other geocachers would enjoy trading for that Budweiser belt buckle or Miller Lite bottle opener, so I leave those items alone. Could you please do the same when you encounter religious items? Ultimately the governing standard on trade items is set forth in the "Cache Contents" section of the Listing Guidelines: I sort of agree with Leprechauns here. I am a Christian, and if I see a nice piece of Christian-themed swag, I will trade for it. I am "offended" by a perfectly good ammo can that has used McToys and 3-wheeled matchbox cars shoved to the brim. I am equally offended by a cache being stuffed full of pamphlets.

At CG2EEP1 I found (cito-ed) a screwdriver with interchangable bits. Only a couple of the bits were missing, and most of the item was still in the original package. My log of that find:

I thank briansnat for closing mine so that it did not devolve into ... this. I had placed mine (which you must admit was somewhat different) in "getting started" since I am getting started, I suppose. We had some lovely and interesting exchanges there. And there is a world of difference between a magnetic micro on a WalMart dumpster and a nice micro in a pretty (and easy to get to) spot in a park (which are what some of my park-and-grab finds are). Anyway... I have now read this thread. And I pretty much want to poke my eyes out with empty chapstick tubes.