icefall5

Although, the rules do allow for some exceptions. I couldn't find it in there now, but I remember an example being used in the rules at one point that said if two caches are on opposite sides of a deep canyon, you could put them within 528 feet. It also does say that it is a guideline as opposed to a rule, so if they're not too close you may be able to convince the reviewer to let you publish it.

I appreciate all input, but when I'm told by people who don't even know me that I have an attitude that I should be entitled to anything and that all kids today are like that, I hate it.

Just one from page 3 I'd like to address... UNFAIR MY BUTT!!! Go cut the grass a couple of times and there is your 30 bucks! Oh PigPen, quite picking on the little kid! Na. They started it. Thanks for reading the rest of my original post. It goes on to say: I am now going to PM a mod to close this. Feel free to reply before it's closed.

Geocaching.com exists to serve its users customers. I have to disagree with you on that one. There are many extra features with a PM, but Groundspeak needs a way to pay for the site. I just think MOCs are a little too much. I have, I've hidden 5 of them. If I ever get a PM, I will never, ever, ever make a single MOC. Ever. Yet again, stereotype! I did receive my GPSr for Christmas, but I do not think I have an entitlement attitude. I completely understand that Groundspeak has to have some way to pay for the money, but I think MOCs might be a touch too much. It's worth correctiong a couple of mispeceptions. 1) This isn't a theory. It's an observed fact that PMO caches are safer from intensional cache maggotry. There is no sure thing, but this helps. 2) If the area is sensative then a touch less traffic may be all that's needed. I've personally hidden 99 geocaches. Many start out as PMOC, and some will change to regular caches over time. Several times, when I changed my pmocs to regular caches, they disappeared. None of the caches that walked away were in busy areas, so the I doubt the muggle theory applied. I spoke with several other cachers who lost caches in the same area, and all were regular caches. When you take the time and money to hide nice caches, you want them to last a long time. Making caches PMOCs is not 100 percent effective at preventing their disappearance. Me personally, I make my caches even more exclusive then PMOCs. I make them 4.5 star terrain caches, so I can weed out all but the most physically fit geocachers. I also make some of my puzzles so hard that you have to have a degree in cryptography in order to find them. Marnen, If you think PMOC caches aren't fair because they can't be found by everyone, then what are your thoughts on puzzle caches, and high terrain caches? With those, you have to be physically fit, which usually doesn't cost money. Just work out a lot. But with some high terrain caches, you do have to have special equipment and I can understand that. For the people who want to find those, it's the thrill and the challenge of getting up high and working up a sweat, and sometimes even the danger. You can't buy those feelings. Thank you very much! I never actually thought about the Holland Sentinel while looking for routes. Thanks! Yes, you are absolutely correct. It would be completely unfair to the site admin. to expect them to keep the site running for free. That is what you meant, wasn't it? I never said anything about eliminating PMs completely. Thank you very much for putting words in my mouth.

My responses to page 2, in 2 posts. Sorry if some of these sound rude, but I don't appreciate the way I was treated in those. I completely agree. Thank you. It's fair that I'm a paying member and I'm in Iraq with no more caches to find?I guess GC.com should refund my money then? I agree with Kitfox 100%.This is a common theme with today's people,adults and kids alike.ME ME ME...Get a job.There's tons of ways to make money...especially a measly thirty dollars. You're also indicating that cache placers should be dictated to who can find their cache.I personally believe in the MOC till an FTF.You spend the money to play,so that's another perk when you pay for a membership. This is basically not what you wanted to hear,but as the Dennis Leary song goes"Life's gonna suck when you grow up when you grow up and it sucks pretty bad right now!" Well, thanks again for the wonderful stereotype. I'm sorry I have an opinion. And please notice, I never asked for things to be free. I completely appreciate the service Groundspeak provides us, free listings and such, but maybe I have things better to do with $30 as a kid, save for college perhaps? Well stated. Besides, even when I was age 13, back in the sixties, when dollars were worth a lot more and were a lot more scarce, I made over $4 per day in earnings, which came to over $120 per month and over $1,400 per year. If you cannot afford $3 per month, you CERTAINLY cannot afford to be a geocacher! Well, good for you that things were different when you were a kid, but they are very different now. I have been calling newspapers trying to get routes for them, but none of them have them, and if you didn't notice, it's become much harder to get a job as a young teen these days. I've tried. Just to clarify- As I've said numerous times above, I really think Groundspeak is amazing for offering this. I really appreciate it and I can understand why they need PMs. I have nothing against the idea of PMs, just the idea of having MOCs. EDIT- I've had to split this up into separate posts because of all the quotes, so please read on.

You asked me what I think... I think that you have a problem. Your problem is quite commonplace nowadays, even among many adults in our modern society. The problem consists of an attitude called "entitlement", wherein you want everything -- such as all of the listing, tracking and logging services of the geocaching.com listing service, and even all of the benefits reserved for those members who pay to support the site -- for free. In closing, I am curious: since you have established that you DO want ALL of the services and benefits of the geocaching.com service to be free of charge for all, whom do you expect to pay for all the costs (employees, programmers, hosting servers, custom programming, web access, bandwidth, etc.) of running the service and the site? Are you planning on making a lifetime 25 million dollar bequeathment today to geocaching.com to support all this work? If so, thanks much! Lastly, I HATE it when people moan that things are unfair! No one ever promised you that life would be fair, and rather, you made an erroneous assumption at the starting point of this game. Rather than doing the moaning and complaining in which you are currently engaging, you would have a lot more fun in life and get a lot further in life if you would let go of that silly nonsense and instead go to your heart and feel and express gratitude and appreciation for all the wonders around you, including the geocaching.com listing service and PM caches. I don't even know where to start with you Vinny. How can you even say things like this without knowing who I am?! I never mentioned anything about any other services, and I can completely understand why there is the premium member option. I know they have server bills to pay, bandwidth, all that stuff. I never said I want them all to be free! I don't even know what else to say. Actually, I can answer yes to all of those except McDonalds. I'm only 14 years old. Pretty sure I never said anything like "I want it!" I simply brought up that I don't like MOCs. However, I did say that I am not allowed to have a premium membership, whether I buy it or not. And don't even think about ripping my parents about this either. It might have been difficult to find, so I cut out everything except the entitlement whining: Perhaps icefall has a different definition of "fair" than I do? In my little version of reality, I pay $30 a year, while he pays nothing. Fair to me would mean I get services or treatment that he does not. Fair to me also means that the owners of this website get to determine what additional services I get for my $30. Now, if Groundspeak made everything exactly equal across the board for paying members as well as non paying members, that would seem "unfair" to me. His attitude is the ultimate personification of the entitlement generation. He wants the premium benefits handed to him for free, and if he doesn't get them, he yells, "Foul!" I never asked for the entitlements for free, I just asked everyone's opinion on whether they think it's fair or not. Simple as that. You don't need to go putting words in my mouth, and I don't appreciate being stereotyped. I really don't appreciate anyone shooting me down simply for asking about discussion as to whether people think MOCs are fair or not. I gave my opinion, and you can have yours too. Don't shoot me down just because I have an opinion different than yours. Thank you to marnen, n6mhg, and knight2000. These are my responses to some posts on page 1. I'll post more from pages 2 and 3 and if there's more since I've written this later. Sorry if some of these sound really rude, but I think they merit it because of the way I was attacked.

Unfortunately for me, there are many in my area which are, especially the ones which are PMO until the FTF, then they're opened to anyone.

For the purposes of this post (and the rest of this topic if you use them), PM means premium members and PMO is premium member only cache. I really, really think the option to make a cache for PMs only should be eliminated. It is very annoying to search on here, find that a cache has been published that hasn't been there before, only to find that the owner has made it only for PMs. There are many times when this has happened to me, and I know of a few cachers who get the page published, set the cache for PMs only, and then enable it for everyone as soon as it has an FTF. Those are the caches I really don't like. I think we should all have a fair chance at getting an FTF, regardless of what cache it is or who the hider is. It also is unfair to some groups of people. For instance, and I do not want to get into a debate about pricing and whether this is cheap or expensive, but for some people $30 a year for a premium membership may be too much. I am a kid, and I can neither afford it nor get parental permission to mail the payment in or use a credit card. For kids, at least kids like me who can't get a membership, PMOs are completely unfair. What do all of you think?

Wow, lots of discussion. I really think micros should have their own status. The search techniques required, the fact that no swag or TBs fit, etc. I have searched for one too many caches only to not find them and later learn that it was a micro, but the owner didn't say so on the page. Either that, or make it a requirement that except for mystery caches, the owner say it is a micro.

What is the name of the cache? I know it's probably not enabled yet, but for future reference...

You don't need software to enter one in. What type of GPS do you have?

Weekly, and no other family members use GC.com.

I used to have one e-mail address set for the LoBot notifications, but I didn't get the e-mails there. So, I changed it to a different e-mail address. As soon as I did that, I started getting the notifications sent to both. How do I get it so they're only being sent to one?

I think that's a little harsh. Did they have any rules against caching when this cache was placed? No. I understand that it was on private property, but that's a whole different charge. Book him on trespassing, not disorderly conduct. That's almost like ex post facto.

My caches aren't the best, so I have no room to be picky.

Yeah! Thanks! I couldn't get it to work through the Machine.

Does anyone happen to have a snapshot or some way I could see an old cache page, just any one different from the current, modern look they have now. I have tried the WayBack Machine, so please don't suggest that.

who r yu callnig a fag? IBLD2 He's not calling anyone a fag, it's faq. The bottom of the q is cut off because of the underline of the link. I would say IBTL, except I have no idea what it means.

How about a coterie? The def.: 1. a group of people who associate closely. 2. an exclusive group; clique. 3. a group of prairie dogs occupying a communal burrow. I think 1 and 2 describe us somewhat well.

BBWolf typed it in wrong. The correct tag is this: <img src="Copied URL goes here" align=left/right vspace=1 hspace=1> It's just changing the "imr" from the beginning to "img." The absolute least you have to have is <img src="URL here"> As BB said, the rest of it is extra.

I would say that as long as you're there on a somewhat regular basis and would be able to perform maintenance on it if needed, then it should be fine. That rule is mainly to stop people from placing caches while on vacation. I live in Michigan, and if I went to, say, the Grand Canyon for vacation and put a cache there, I would have no way to maintain it if something happened and would simply have to archive it.

You are welcome. Have fun!

Would this be a Magellan eXplorist 200? If so, that is the exact one I have. 1. Hit "Mark" from any screen. Doesn't matter where the cursor is, just hit it. 2. Highlight the coordinates, then press straight down on the trackpad controller thing. I can't think of the official name right now. 3. One number will be highlighted. Use up and down on the trackpad thing to select the number to be used for that digit, and left and right to select the digit. 4. Once you finish with the North/South row, press straight down on the trackpad thing to move to the East/West row. Follow step 3 again. 5. Press straight down on the trackpad thing to highlight all coordinates, then scroll down to save. 6. Press straight down on the trackpad thing to select save. That's all. It may seem like a lot, but it's not. Just make sure you input the coords correctly! If you have any other questions about it, assuming you have the eXplorist 200, feel free to PM me.

As with pretty much everyone above me, I would just log a find.

Aren't those both the same thing? I really wouldn't mind paying for the site, if I was old enough to do so. I just don't like the idea of MOC's. I am not old enough yet to buy a premium membership, and my parents don't want to buy one for me even though I have the money to pay them back for it. I would like to see some of the MOC's, because there are a few near my house. But I don't have the option to view them, and I really don't think that's entirely fair. This may have already been brought up, but I didn't read all the posts in this topic.