gpsfun
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Posts posted by gpsfun
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We have an orphaned cache by the name of Geocache that has reached its first birthday today. Since it is located in upper NY state very close to Vermont, I am posting this in the Northeast and the New England forums.
If you are interested in adopting this cache, you may send an e-mail via my profile or post here. I will coordinate with the reviewer who handles NY state so we may place this cache in the hands of an active owner.
Thank you.
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We have contacted danosphere and would like to allow him the first adoption opportunity, should he find it to still be in place and in adoptable condition.
If anyone else becomes interested, please post here so we can provide you an adoption opportunity should danosphere decline.
Thank you.
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Requests to archive Laverne Preserve cache have been received and acted upon, but a review of the most recent (but still old) cache logs indicates that some geocachers found the cache to be of significant interest.
Since the owner has been inactive on the site for over a year, if anyone in the general area is interested in visiting the cache to consider adoption, please let me know. Right now, we do not know for sure if the cache is gone or has just suffered lack of maintenance. We would like to have it adopted if reasonable, or at least receive confirmation of its removal.
Thank you.
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The idea of typing a NOTE TO ADMIN at the top of the large description box is very helpful. In the case of multistage and mystery caches, this removes a cycle of e-mail from the admin to the cache owner and back, usually resulting in a more prompt approval (all other things being OK, of course.)
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The person placing the cache has been requested to make arrangements for its removal, and the cache page has been archived.
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Wow - what a path this discussion has taken!
I am the approver who reviewed this cache, and here is my message to the user:
quote:
User Pantalaimon has been emailed with the following message:Hi, Pantalaimon.
We are reviewing Maine Lake Web Cam GCxxxx for approval and have a concern to be resolved before proceeding. The coordinates appear to be on a golf course, many of which are private property. If so, we need for you to make note that you have permission to have geocachers entering the area. In any case, geocachers wandering about a golf course could be exposed to airborne golf balls, and may annoy golfers.
That said, the information on the web page suggests that the web cam is not at the coordinates anyway. So, given that geocaching invloves finding a specific location using GPS technology, asking geocachers to find the location by other means pretty much says that this is not a geocache.
The approval queue gets pretty backed up on weekends, so I will be TEMPORARILY archiving this cache pending further discussion and/or changes to the cache page.
Note: I provided you with my contact information, but have left that out of the quote above.
I now see that the coordinates on the cache page have been changed to place the web cam in Sebago Lake instead of on the golf course. I'm not sure the geocachers seeking your cache would find that particularly helpful.
The way to win approval for a questionable cache is to let the approver help you find a way to make it acceptable, if possible. Contrary to the belief of a few, that's what we are here for. But I cannot scan the forums looking for threads like this; you need to respond to me (or the admin who notifies you of an issue) to continue the discussion. Also, the admins typically do not jump into cache approval discussions or take action out of context; we don't always know the details of foregoing discussions, original cache coordinates, etc.
I'd like to thank erik for the heads-up. And I look forward to hearing directly from you.
-gpsfun
geocaching.com admin
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Hi, orange74thing.
I am the admin who made an exception and approved Toy Chest, and I did so in full knowledge of the 410 foot separation from your cache. My rationale for the approval is the kid friendly nature of Toy Chest, and my personal opinion that getting youngsters engaged in the sport at an early age is good for them and for the sport. I cannot see that it infringes on your cache in any way, and it has a specific target audience.
Several days later, I saw Badges in the queue and wrote to the user who submitted it, specifically on the density question. The user responded politely, providing reasonable rational for having an aggressively hidden cache in the area. I see that it still has not been found, and there is one not-found log on that page at this writing.
The 0.1 mile separation requirement is a good guideline that should be observed in most cases. However, circumstances do alter cases, and I stand by the approvals because of their diversity.
-gpsfun
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I'm reminded of my first visit to a pool hall. Specific rules? Sure - shoot the stripes or solids, whichever yours are, don't sink the eight until all of yours are off the table first, don't scratch, etc. But that didn't make me a pool player - I had to watch the old salts and the sharks to learn how the game is really played.
I think that's what is being suggested here.
(By the way, I never made it as a pool player. I hope you do better at geocaching than I did at pool.)
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Morty, I can assure you that mtn-man is not unreasonable and does not have "it in" for members of the geocaching community.
This is a new and growing sport, with creative innovations appearing daily. Some of them color inside the lines, some right on the lines, and some outside the lines. Of the ones outside the lines, some will expand the boundaries of the sport and make it bigger and better.
That said, I fail to see how hiding a magnet can be classified as innovative, creative, or beneficial to the sport. That's just my personal opinion, but if I had seen it first, I would have questioned it, too.
—geocaching.com admin gpsfun
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I love the way you punctuate your sentences.
-Brad
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and already received the data. It's the first time I've used the feature.
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Geocachers, you don't need me to tell you that there has been considerable controversy on the subject above. In an attempt at problem solving, but more likely in an act of self immolation, I have gathered input from many postings here on the forums, and from several respected persons.
A consistent theme has been that the current guidelines do not clearly and binarily state what's in and what's out of bounds. Well, what follows does not achieve that level of precision, but takes a step in that direction. Jeremy asked that I see what you think, so here goes...
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Virtual and Reverse Virtual (or Locationless) Caches
These are special categories which give a task for an item to find and log. While previous guidelines for these categories were somewhat loose to encourage innovation, it is now appropriate to add clarification.
Some earlier postings do not meet these clarified guidelines, although they will be allowed to stand as grandfathered. They will not be considered as justification or as precedents for future submissions.
The overall intent for virtual and reverse virtual caches is to focus on the unique as opposed to the commonplace or mundane. This statement will hopefully be clarified with some examples later on.
If after reading the guidelines below you believe you have a compelling reason why your potential posting should be approved, state your rationale clearly in a note to the administrators at the top of your submission.
Virtual Caches
A virtual cache is a cache that exists in a form of an object at a location which was already there. Typically, the cache "hider” creates a virtual cache at a location where physical caches are not permitted. The reward for these caches is the location itself and sharing information about your visit.
Prior to considering a virtual cache, you must have given consideration to the question “why a regular geocache – perhaps a micro or only a log book - couldn’t be placed there?” If there is a good answer, then it may be a valid virtual cache opportunity. Also, consider making the location a step in a multi-stage cache, with the physical cache placed in an area that is appropriate.
There have been virtual caches approved in the past on the basis that "a physical cache could not be appropriately maintained" at the location, often by a user who is traveling through the area. This essentially "blocks" the area for later placement of a physical cache. Physical caches have priority, so virtual caches of this nature will usually not be approved.
Virtual Cache Posting Guidelines:
1. A virtual cache must be of a physical object that can be referenced through latitude and longitude coordinates. That object should be semi-permanent to permanent. Objects in motion (such as people, vehicles) do not count as a virtual cache, unless that item can be adequately tracked and updated on the web site (For example, a link to a tracker for a vehicle would be ok). If I post the cache today, someone else should be able to find it tomorrow and the next day.
A trail is a trail, a beach is a beach, a view is a view; but a trail/beach/view is NOT a virtual cache. A cache has to be a specific distinct GPS target - not something large like a mountain top or a park, however special those locations are.
2. A virtual cache must be novel, of interest to other players, and have a special historic, community or geocaching quality that sets it apart from everyday subjects. Items that would be in a coffee table book are good examples. A flagpole, manhole cover, tree, etc., are poor examples (with a possible exception: A flagpole at a memorial or a particularly novel flagpole would be ok, or an especially unique tree would count). Conversely, a scavenger hunt posted as a virtual cache would not be ok. If you don't know what is appropriate, post a question to the forums first.
3. Virtual caches are not commercial. For example (but not exclusive), a coffee house, pizza parlor, ice cream shop are not acceptable.
4. Virtual caches should be geographically dispersed. New postings which are within 0.1 mile of an existing cache will generally not be approved, unless the poster provides a compelling rationale. Posting a virtual cache at every animal cage in a zoo is an example of something that will not be approved.
5. There should be one or more questions about an item at a location, something seen at that location, etc., that only the visitor to that physical location will be able to answer. The questions should be difficult enough that it cannot be answered through library or web research. The use of a "certificate of achievement" or similar item is not a substitute for the find verification requirement.
6. An original photo can be an acceptable way to verify a find, or an email to the owner with valid answers for the question or questions. In NO cases should answers be posted in the logs, even if encrypted.
7. Understand that although the virtual cache is not something you physically maintain, you must maintain your virtual cache's web page and respond to inquiries. You should also return to the web site at least once a month to show you are still active. Virtual caches posted and "abandoned" will be archived by the site.
Virtual Cache Maintenance Guidelines:
The poster will assume the responsibility of quality control of logged “finds” for the virtual cache, and states that they will delete any “find” logs which appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.
Virtual Cache Logging Guidelines
Logging a virtual cache find requires compliance with the requirements stated by the poster, including answering the required questions by e-mail to the poster, providing original photos if so requested, etc. Answers to questions, hints or clues should not be placed in the logs, even if encrypted.
Locationless Caches
A locationless cache is best defined as a "reverse virtual" cache, and gives a task for an item to find, including going to the site and logging the find with latitude and longitude coordinates obtained with their GPS receiver.
Locationless caches must be semi-permanent to permanent. For example, nothing that is mobile can be a locationless cache. Examples (nonexclusive) are cars, buses, helicopters, boats, etc. A local carnival cache is another example of a cache that would not be approved. If I mark coordinates at a location it should be there tomorrow.
Locationless caches must be novel, meaning of interest to someone else, and have a special historic, community or geocaching quality that sets it apart from everyday subjects.
Locationless Cache Posting Guidelines:
A poster may choose a proposed topic or theme in which they are interested, and in which it is reasonable to assume other members of the geocaching community may have similar interest. The general assumption behind creating the reverse cache is that others will share similar items related to the theme.
In the description field, the poster outlines the topic or theme, including any boundaries for the theme. An example or an instance of the theme will be provided, including details, facts, figures, or other interesting information found by researching that instance of the theme.
The poster will document their guidelines for logging the reverse cache. These guidelines may include requirements for posting a photograph or other information at a level of detail comparable to the example provided. For example, if those seeking to log a “find” will be required to submit a picture including themselves and/or their GPSr, the description should include a picture with the same attributes.
Locationless Cache Maintenance Guidelines:
The poster will assume the responsibility of quality control of logged “finds” for the reverse cache, and states that they will delete any “find” logs which appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.
It is desirable for the poster to provide a method for cataloging logs so users can easily determine if a location has been logged. For example, the poster may edit the cache page and add a table or list like this:
09/01/02 finder name N 44°19.386 W 121°30.934 Camp Polk, OR
In the case of an extensive list, the poster may post a link to a file or html table of their own choosing.
Locationless Cache Logging Guidelines:
Logging a locationless cache find requires (real) coordinates. No exceptions. Logs without coordinates will be deleted.
Persons logging a “find” are expected to comply with the requirements stated by the poster, including remaining on topic, providing original photos if so requested, and providing a level of descriptive detail consistent with the example.
Locationless Cache Approval:
The Geocaching dot com approvers will review the compliance of proposed reverse caches to these and other site guidelines (not commercial, not in bad taste, does not involve illegal activities, etc.) In the event of questions during the approval process, the cache page will be archived while the approver contacts the poster of the proposed reverse cache. The approver will indicate why the locationless cache cannot be approved as-is, and in cases of minor issues may make suggestions in the spirit of finding a way to make it “approvable.”
Locationless Cache Approval checklist – locationless caches must:
1. Have a complete, precise description.
2. Provide reporting guidelines appropriate to the subject (such as photos, research, etc.).
3. Provide an example of an acceptable log.
4. Be a unique theme (not a copycat of an existing reverse cache).
5. Have a special historic, community or geocaching quality that sets it apart from everyday subjects.
6. Be semi-permanent to permanent.
7. Be a distinct, physical object that is logged through latitude/longitude coordinates.
8. Not refer to a specific business or current product.
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It sure is frustrating to get skunked. I can't wait to get back to Dayton to find one that eluded me for more time than I would like to admit.
On any given day there will be a different configuration of satellites overhead than the ones the person who placed the cache had, so we need to expect some ambiguity in the readings. A cloudy day or a dense canopy of foliage overhead makes it worse.
While this doesn't always work, I look for things out of their natural position. Leaves and dead branches don't just naturally pile up at the base of a tree or over a stump hole. Rocks don't just pile up in front of places where an ammo box might hide. And at least around where I live, not all caches are on the ground.
There's a lot of good advice in the other thread you referenced. The three most important items are:
1. use a compass
2. use a compass
3. when in doubt, use a compass
I find it helpful to get back away from the target area and get bearings on it from at least two perspectives. Then use the compass to walk one or both of the bearing lines.
Good luck!
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It sure is frustrating to get skunked. I can't wait to get back to Dayton to find one that eluded me for more time than I would like to admit.
On any given day there will be a different configuration of satellites overhead than the ones the person who placed the cache had, so we need to expect some ambiguity in the readings. A cloudy day or a dense canopy of foliage overhead makes it worse.
While this doesn't always work, I look for things out of their natural position. Leaves and dead branches don't just naturally pile up at the base of a tree or over a stump hole. Rocks don't just pile up in front of places where an ammo box might hide. And at least around where I live, not all caches are on the ground.
There's a lot of good advice in the other thread you referenced. The three most important items are:
1. use a compass
2. use a compass
3. when in doubt, use a compass
I find it helpful to get back away from the target area and get bearings on it from at least two perspectives. Then use the compass to walk one or both of the bearing lines.
Good luck!
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This thread contains mention of a few cases of parks where geocaching is either tolerated or encouraged, and maybe those cases are being overlooked while lamenting the places which cannot currently be used.
Around the middle of 2001 the Georgia State Parks said "no" to geocaching, and guess what? Geocaching continued to grow by leaps and bounds outside the state parks anyway. We also found a number of county parks that welcomed us with open arms. The prohibition against geocaching in state parks probably had a small impact on the sport in Georgia, but has not slowed it down by much.
And in the mean time, the Georgia Geocachers Association has met with the parks administration and we now have our foot back in the door, with some limitations we can live with as we work to continue to improve the situation. I believe the key has been to look at the issues through the eyes of the administrators, and to find creative ways to mitigate their concerns.
The finger-in-the-eye approach, tempting though it might be, won't work.
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I've been told that the number of upper extremity snakebites on males in Georgia shows an inverse correlation with SAT scores...
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I've been told that the number of upper extremity snakebites on males in Georgia shows an inverse correlation with SAT scores...
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First, I want to wish you the best however you decide to approach this issue. But I'm afraid mail or e-mail is impersonal in nature and easy to disregard. I'm not saying your officials will disregard it, but it would be easier if they are so inclined.
If you have any sort of organized group, or can organize one, you may want to consider inviting the officals to come to one of your meetings to explain their concerns. If they agree, it's important to demonstrate excellent listening skills while also exercising restraint by not debating with them. Thank them and let them know you will get back with them.
Once you know what's on their mind, your group can consider a response that addresses their concerns - just the ones they told you about. Don't volunteer to fix anything they don't perceive to be broken. Then meet again personally with them and present your suggestions for mitigating their concerns.
No guarantees, but I have seen it work.
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First, I want to wish you the best however you decide to approach this issue. But I'm afraid mail or e-mail is impersonal in nature and easy to disregard. I'm not saying your officials will disregard it, but it would be easier if they are so inclined.
If you have any sort of organized group, or can organize one, you may want to consider inviting the officals to come to one of your meetings to explain their concerns. If they agree, it's important to demonstrate excellent listening skills while also exercising restraint by not debating with them. Thank them and let them know you will get back with them.
Once you know what's on their mind, your group can consider a response that addresses their concerns - just the ones they told you about. Don't volunteer to fix anything they don't perceive to be broken. Then meet again personally with them and present your suggestions for mitigating their concerns.
No guarantees, but I have seen it work.
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One way to address this is to create an event cache at an interesting location. The group which evolved into the Georgia Geocachers Association (GGA) started this way one year ago, and we just had our anniversary meeting. Here's our event cache page for your reference: GGA June 2002 Meeting
Let us know if we can help - we've had our growing pains and will be glad to share tips.
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ClayJar,
The GGA has its own discussion board elsewhere, so we usually would not be using this forum to discuss our meeting, etc. BigDoggie's post was directed toward those who are not yet aware of GGA and/or the meeting plans.
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Hope all goes well for TAG! It probably won't be long before some of us show up in your area.
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Just guessing here, but I suppose that if you have more than one account and you do the "login as someone else" routine, the cookie goes south - or do we wind up with a cookie for the other account - so that we always come back to the last place we were signed in?
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Just guessing here, but I suppose that if you have more than one account and you do the "login as someone else" routine, the cookie goes south - or do we wind up with a cookie for the other account - so that we always come back to the last place we were signed in?
Caches In Need Of Adoption
in Northeast
Posted
We have an orphaned cache by the name of Geocache that has reached its first birthday today. Since it is located in upper NY state very close to Vermont, I am posting this in the Northeast and the New England forums.
If you are interested in adopting this cache, you may send an e-mail via my profile or post here. I will coordinate with the reviewer who handles NY state so we may place this cache in the hands of an active owner.
Thank you.