CuplaKiwis

Kenny Mpfmmmpppfmpmmmfmmfmpmffmmf mffmpmmppmmm! Mfmppffmpfmpmmm pmfppffpmmpp mfffmp...

wow, I go out for a climb and a couple of beers, and this happens. Shame when these things start getting personal. If I may, I'd like to summarise some views to put things in perspective... 1. It is a geocacher's right to be a member or not 2. If not a member, there are plenty of ways to help pay for the site that we all use, even if this is only though the mimimal advertising on site. 3. It is *always* the owners right to do what they want with a cache (within the guidelines), including making it MO. It may not however always be popular... Geocaching started out Public Domain; it would be great to keep it that way.

Just make the caches better - a bit of a puzzle'll beat them. Better than excluding people who have been members for years and have no other reason to pay up. So make them puzzle caches and make them elitest in that only those that are clever enough to solve the puzzle can find them. That probably excludes more people me included than making it members only. There's always plenty of peple willing to help... This therefore is not excluding anyone.

For the most part, I think the (free) service that I get from Groundspeak is an excellent one. I am happy to buy TB tags and occasional merchandise to help support the site. And don't get me wrong, I think the subscription idea is a great one - fully justified for the extra functionality obtained IMO. I guess my 'hatred' of members only caches is based on fear - fear that they *will* become the norm rather than the exception. That will be the day I quit geocaching for good (or at least GC.com )

Just make the caches better - a bit of a puzzle'll beat them. Better than excluding people who have been members for years and have no other reason to pay up.

I must say Im torn on this matter, Im usually the first to stand up and defend punlic domain activities from profiteering, but, its got to be recognised that running a high user website is a very expensive buisness, especially one that willingly host pictures, and gives FREE access to such a huge and growing database as the Geocache DB and indeed the forum DBs are. This leads me to feel that maybe Groundspeak should be cut some slack, especially since member only caches are the exception not the rule, and as long as the majority of cachers are happy to keep their caches public domain then I feel there isnt a hige problem. Saying this, it does sound unfair that the status of a chache should be changed in this way, and im sure a compromise can be made somewhere. Sorry, back on topic here... It is the cache owner's prerogative to change to status if they want, but I'm sure any discerning owner should let Padmassana log it. I'm sure an email would do the trick. Back off topic - webhosting is getting cheaper and cheaper, so the argument for hosting a high user website, while true, is not particularly compelling; at least not in favour of members only caches. That being said, there is a pleasant lack of advertising on GC.com...

How does that possibly make a difference? Are you saying that the cachers that pay up are a better breed, and therefore less likely to trash a cache or make crap swaps??

Nope, don't agree with this at all. Personally, I think the whole 'members only cache' idea is an arrogant concept. Geocaching started as a public domain activity, and I for one want to keep it that way. I can see why people want to become members, for PQ's etc, but I don't use them, so why should I pay just to do cache that someone has deemed to be 'above the masses'? I also realise that Groundspeak has to make money to support this site, but I feel that encouraging people to place members only caches is simply a cyncal way of 'forcing' membership. I realise I'll probably piss some people off by saying this, but it happens to be something I have very strong feelings about.

Thanks All, appreciate the thoughts I changed our name from NVPIV a while back, as we were more often caching as a couple than me alone, so thought it was more appropriate. Besides, NVPIV was just so hard to pronounce!

For those of you who were at the North-East get together (and anyone who's interested!), here are some photos of us with our CuplaKiwis Wedding TB that G-Force so kindly (and unexpectedly) put together before we went home to get married. We had a perfect day (managed to get sunburnt) and wonderful honeymoon. Back to work again in the NE now, but we can't be on holiday forever now can we?!

With respect, unless they are a dry-bag type configuration - ie multiple fold down top with pressure clip - I would be extemely surprised if a draw string bag would be waterPROOF. The best bet seems to be to have a good waterproof container - the clip ones are so much better than pressure fit tupperware - and forget about bags entirely.

Is this the kind that tells you that you look silly in that outfit, and that you should get a life instead of wandering in the woods looking for tupperware?! Sorry, couldn't resist

I did Glow worms and fireflys a while ago in New Zealand - there are a few daytime logs here, which I still see as having found the cache. The difference is, this is such a spectacular location at night, that these daytime finders have missed out on something special. A find is still a find, but the trick is to make it somewhere that is different and/or unique at night.

Maybe somewhat insensitive of me, but this talk of 'value' of trade objects seems all rather materialistic. Surely the idea of the game is to find the box/film canister/whatever, with the trade, if any, being a 'bonus' of some kind. I've become a TNLN kind of guy, mainly because the vast majority of stuff we find is not useful to me in any way, and picking something up only to place it in the next cache I find just seems kinda pointless. That being said, I have been known to go back to poorly stocked caches and drop in a few nice bits and pieces to try to help lift the quality back up... All this aside, we bought back a few small NZ flags and other Kiwi bits and pieces with us from our trip home, and I can't wait to drop these off... It comes down to honesty really. Most of us are honest and will trade accordingly, but there's always the few who ruin it for the many. Happy Caching - look out for those Kiwi flags!! Aidan

I was with AOL for a while, but have since switched to Wanadoo's 1Mbit service. While I had no specific grievances with AOL, I found the (considerable) extra cost was not justified, as I did not use any of their 'member' services, such as news and shopping etc, preferring to get my information from the general www. If having this information all in one place appeals to you, then AOL is definitely a good option, but in my experience, I did not get any additional value for the extra money. Bear in mind that similar information services can be obtained free of charge from MSN etc. Wanadoo have been excellent for me. Service has been completely fault free, and the few queries I have had (mainly hosting etc) have been answered quickly and efficiently. Best of luck - It's a consumer's market out there, and there are some great deals to be had. Aidan

Came back to the UK yesterday after a week in Thailand on Honeymoon. I reckon this snow thing is just a bad hallucination I'm having as a reaction to having to go back to work tomorrow!

I don't think it does. Say you have a cache where the listed co-ords are for parking. You then have to find a micro which gives you the co-ords of the final cache. This fits the description for both multi and mystery, although most people would say it was a multi. T Think it still does (imho!). The problem is similar to the "All dogs have tails. My cat has a tail, therefore my cat is a dog" argument. Just because a cache is not at the listed coordinates, doesn't immediately make it a Mystery cache. "Solving complicated puzzles" is not just collecting coords from virtuals, doing a bit of math and then going to the final location. I think GC.com has hit the nail on the head by describing a Mystery as a catch-all. This seems to indicate that there will be something of a grey area. It would be a heck of a stretch to call this a mystery, but yes, it does prove the point. Grey area indeed. The way the mystery category seems to me, appearing as it did quite some time after the original categories were established, is that we should try to fit a cache into the other categories first. If it won't comfortably go, then it's a mystery!! BTW, in reference to the original post, I don't believe that a mystery container alone should ever be enough to qualify as a Mystery cache - refer the the "The only commonality..." bit. This would simply be a very well hidden traditional (or micro or multi or...). Cheers, Aidan

Just got back into the country after a month abroad, and my eyes alighted directly on this thread... I have developed a somewhat masochistic love of these! Surprised no one has quoted this yet - "Mystery or puzzle caches The “catch-all” of cache types, this form of cache can involve complicated puzzles you will first need to solve to determine the coordinates. The only commonality of this cache type is that the coordinates listed are not of the actual cache location but a general reference point, such as a nearby parking location." Think that answers the original question.

Nah, can't be - there's not a 5* in sight...

It's not where you live, is it Rutson?!

This is getting a bit heavy... Being a New Zealander, I don't pretend to understand the History and general animosity that is present in discussions such as this. I know only what I have seen on TV in the 80's and read in History books etc. I know it was v.v. bad, but it is frankly quite incomprehensible to me... That aside, IMO, I fail to see how a simple three coloured flag can cause so much pain. Surely in this day and age we are civilised enough to see the islands that make up Britain and Ireland (and Isle on Man ) as a GEOgraphical feature, of which a significant proportion of the entire populace happen to use the same flag. Yes, I accept that ROI is quite distinctly separate, at least Politically. To me, as an 'outsider', there is only Ireland. And a beautiful Ireland at that. In the end, this is only the first in what will hopefully be long line of 'our' geocoins - with many varied designs (well done House of Boo!!). I mentioned the Southern Cross in an earlier post - remember that NZ is a British colony with it's own share of 'history' with the Crown: just ask the Maori - but I don't see my beloved Southern Cross anywhere. I will still buy and relish these geocoins, even though the flag is not mine. Aidan EDIT: btw, reference to pain above isn't intended to provoke attempts to educate me . Accept that I accept your position, regardless of your stance - this is your right as a free person.

C'mon - there's gotta be more than *one* (or a couple ) of expat antipodeans caching over 'ere... I'm afraid the Union Jack just looks naked without the Southern Cross... ...and before I'm corrected for calling it the Union Jack not the Union Flag - It's the Jack when it's on our flag, as our flag is descended from the Naval one...

hmmn. Can't say I've heard that one. I know one about a boomerang. Is that any help?

Very impressed. Needs the Southern Cross on it as well tho'

You could try using the "scale to fit" function if your printer driver has it.