Fish Eagle

The length of the writeup is not a problem - a cache listing can handle a lot - check out http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...86-c332841529da to see how much!! A suggestion to avoid clogging up each cache listing - perhaps somebody can host the long writeup on their website, and each cache listing can link to it?

Perhaps the first step to becoming a "Springbok Cacher" is finding the rare black springbok, which lives close to a cache..... I wonder who knows what I'm talking about...? And who's seen the black springbok?

It's called GeocacheNavigator - visit link

Hi Wazat, Lindy's got the Nokia 6110 Navigator and she's added the fancy software for geocaching which connects to gc.com realtime. It's brilliant!! Switch it on, and it fetches all cache listings within 5kms from gc.com within a few seconds - no offline stuff, or having to load it with GPX files, etc. It could easily be your only unit in a cache-dense environment, but probably not in SA. It's too fancy for me, so I don't know much about it, but I'll PM you Lindy's cell number. Feel free to give her a call.

Your new cache is published - GC1B7PB King of the World. There is no proximity issue with an earthcache because it does not have a physical container. However, I need to be comfortable that your cache and the earthcache won't be confused by newbie cachers. Their listed co-ords are sufficiently far apart, so no problem there. The second potential issue is the proximity of Discombob's "Frodo's Journey" cache which is only 138m away (horizontally). However, they are about 260m away vertically and could almost be on different planets so I don't see a proximity issue there either. Good luck with your new cache!!

I agree 100% - in the absence of a rule (and there isn't one saying how far you can move a cache before you have to list a new cache), then it's up to the cache owner and the reviewer (who has to do the co-ords change if it's more than 160m). There are limits to what's reasonable - I would certainly recommend (read expect) a new cache listing if it moves more than (say) 500m, and the nature of the cache has changed materially. But, that's my opinion - others might say that it shouldn't be a new cache if it's showing you the same "whatever" that the old one did..... Fortunately, it's just a game, and one smiley more or less is irrelevant. Perhaps the question should be "Has it moved and/or changed enough to make me want to revisit the location? Will I be seeing or experiencing something different to my previous visit?"

Hi AmmaSoekSoek, You're skating on thin ys with this subject because it's highly controversial. The FTF is not the controversial point, but logging a second find is - many cachers think that's wrong. There is no specific rule governing it. So, provided that the cache has moved a reasonable distance and the hide changed materially, then it's up to the cache owner whether he wants to allow previous finders to find and log it again. But, there is a lot of opinion and unofficial cacher-made rules, so you can be sure that second finders will get plenty stick, and you will too if you allow second finds on the same GC number. My pragmatic advice - it's just a game, so I suggest that you walk around the patch of thin ys by archiving the old listing, and listing a completely new cache. Then it's right on top of the province's cache list again, and very clearly invites everyone to hunt it again (and the FTF), and nobody catches any stress!!! My 2c worth

Thanks Bouts777. We enjoyed hunting some of your caches yesterday, especially the one on top of Boschjeskop. Hope we get to meet you someday soon.

Hey, you can't collect other people's coins - you're supposed to buy your own!!! LOL, just joking!! Thought it's a good time to say a BIG THANKS!!! You've gone to great effort with moving and placing our travellers - much appreciated!!! Pleased that you got our 5-star climbing coin, and even more pleased that you (eventually) got to the top of Amajuba!!! I was wondering whether I had to drive down there and carry you to the top so you can get that smiley

Oh yes, money comes into it too..... The shoe fits if you're spending money on geocoins, and nobody else understands why.

What would you define as a "collector"? Anybody with one or more coins that are close to their heart, which they're not prepared to release - just wanna keep them, fondle them, admire them, and show them off to anyone who's prepared to look at them. Guess it's an emotional thing...?? If the shoe fits you, you'll know!!

Wow, it's been a long time since anyone had anything to say about geocoins, so I'm bumping this thread to the top of the list. I've seen several SA cachers getting into collecting geocoins, some in a small way, and some with lots of vigour. As an excuse for bumping this "feel-good" thread, let me ask - Who's collecting coins???

That done and said, I am pleased to be able to share the good news - the event has been granted special permission from Groundspeak, and I have just unarchived the listing.

I have been watching this thread, but have refrained from posting until now. I see several assumptions and comments that are a bit off target, so I'll attempt to get us all more or less on the same page. Quote GerhardoosMPsa - "We should have some sort of system such as a vote to determine the outcome or to assist in decision making." Geocaching is not a democracy. Geocaching.com is owned by Groundspeak Inc, who have provided two documents of terms, conditions and guidelines which we specifically agree to abide by every time we list or edit a cache (the two tick boxes at the bottom of the cache edit page). To assist them with applying and enforcing these rules and guidelines, Groundspeak appoints volunteer reviewers, but always reserves the right to make the final decision. These terms and guidelines are not there to frustrate us - they are there to make geocaching work effectively. They have been continuously adapted by Groundspeak over the past 8 years based on their experience in managing hundreds of thousands of geocache listings and geocachers, and all the issues that go with that. The current terms and guidelines are a result of Groundspeak having been there, done that, and got the T-shirt. These are the documents - Terms of use - http://www.geocaching.com/about/termsofuse.aspx Cache listing requirements/guidelines - http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx There's a general assumption that geocaching should be grown as quickly as possible, and by using any means possible to recruit new cachers. This is not true. Of course, Groundspeak wants to grow geocaching, but the guidelines make Groundspeak's intent very clear - which is to rather grow it slowly, than in a commercial manner. Quote EragonSaphira - "Sir Thomas Cullinan restaurant got fantastic advertising, and even supplied food which had to be paid for" An event venue is probably the only exception, and then only because an event has to have a venue, and sometimes the venue is a commercial establishment. Information about the event venue is deemed to be a necessary part of the description of an event cache. But that can also be abused - to say that it's at ABC restaurant, and affordable meals are available is OK, to say that they have the best doughnuts in town is not. One also assumes that the cost of a venue has been minimised as far as possible by the organisers (by negotiation, block booking, etc), to make the venue costs as affordable as possible for cachers. Quote Gerald - "Events are not designed to lure people into geocaching." This is 100% correct. Events are not meant to be a tool for recruiting new geocachers, or for organised cache hunting. Quotes from the guidelines - "Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers" and "an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches". Quote from Cache Types, definition of an Event Cache - "Occasionally, local geocachers and geocaching organizations designate a time and location to meet and discuss geocaching." I did not have a major problem with the article (Page 99) in the Getaway. Yes, it's terribly inaccurate reporting, and they need to be rapped over the knuckles, and there should be an apology/correction published, but I didn't see it as a train smash. The fact that they did not specifically mention geocaching.com is a blessing in disguise, because we have not been directly connected to their terrible article. However, the advertisement on Page 112 is a big problem. It's impossible to reconcile the wording of the guidelines "Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers" and "local geocachers and geocaching organizations designate a time and location to meet and discuss geocaching" with this advert which invites the broad public to pitch up at a listed geocaching.com event. Furthermore, this advert makes it very clear that Getaway "owns" the event, also evidenced by Getaway's event web page where it's very strongly portrayed as a Getaway event. This conflicts directly with "organized by geocachers". Quote from the guidelines - "Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing" and quote from Hide and Seek a cache "Only caches of a non-commercial nature can be posted through this site. If you wish to create a commercial cache or promotion, please contact us first. Caches perceived of a commercial nature will not be published" The commercial content of Page 112 is obvious - it is using the geocaching event as a very blatant advertisement for Getaway. Regarding the event cache listing - one might ask "if it's a problem, why was it published in the first place?". I clearly remember this event listing when it was published - it was shell, stating a date, a broad intent, a request to mark it in diaries, and when compared with the current version of the listing, it was obviously a work in progress. The present (detailed) content of the listing has evolved over the past two months. At the time of review, Erik88l-r questioned whether it had commercial undertones, and was assured that it did not. In good faith, the event was published. Previous events have included minor sponsorship of prizes, and some acknowledgement of the sponsors both in the listing and at the event. Technically, that is commercial content, but in reality the extent and manner in which it was done could not be construed as providing a commercial advantage to the sponsor business. However, with this event, the magnitude of the prizes, the in-depth involvement of the sponsors, and the manner it's been advertised both in the listing, and in Getaway magazine, put it over the top into the territory of having blatant commercial content. Regarding "pushing the envelope" - this is actually encouraged by Groundspeak, and they are always open to new ideas and experimentation, and make specific provision of how to go about it. Quote from the guidelines - "If you have a novel type of cache that “pushes the envelope” to some degree, then it is best to contact your local reviewer and/or Groundspeak before placing and reporting it on the Geocaching.com web site." and under the heading of commercial content - "Some exceptions can be made. In these situations, permission can be given by Groundspeak. However, permission should be asked first before posting. If you are in doubt, ask first." It goes without saying that should a cache listing be changed materially after it has been reviewed and published, and especially if it pushes the envelope, the cache owner should contact his reviewer to check that it is still OK. I would like to say that I have never doubted CrystalFairy's intentions and bona-fides, and have the greatest respect for their effort and dedication, and the contribution they have made to geocaching in SA. Andy

Thanks!! Caught me in the right place at the right time, and of course your listings were good, so all I had to do was read them, and push the button!!

Hi DavidMac, You specifically mentioned two areas - the Kruger National Park and Mapungubwe. We live close to the Kruger Park, know it intimately, and can advise you about travelling in our area (Mpumalanga), and all the other sights to see around here. It's a very scenic area with lots of mountains and waterfalls. I recommend hiring a car and doing a self-drive tour which is so much nicer if you know the basic precautions to take. Drop me an email via my profile and let's talk..... Regarding Mapungubwe, I suggest you contact cacher "Pipit Patrol" - they know the area very well.

Mmmmm!! Yes, we have an unpublished cache for our coin collection. The main reason is to get those coins off our "inventory" of travellers. Having many collection geocoins in one's inventory really clogs it up, and makes it difficult to retrieve and drop travellers in the normal course of caching. I really don't know whether the practice is frowned on, or condoned by GC (but will try to find out), so for now, I would only suggest that it is used by bona-fide coin collectors who own several coins, and are experiencing difficulty in holding them in their inventory. I would hate to see a proliferation of unpublished caches for this purpose, so if you believe that you really need one, then contact me offline for further info.

You'll notice that we have some of our MIA travellers "parked" in our unpublished coin collection cache. This is temporary, pending our decision whether to put a copy into the field, or bury the traveller. Should we decide to bury the traveller, we'll mark it as missing and move to to an "Unknown location" for it's final RIP.

TB Graveyards are no longer permitted. The correct method of "burying" a lost traveller is to mark it as missing using the drop-down menu on the right which normally says "Recalculate distance". Click to open the menu, and select "Mark Item Missing". This moves the traveller to an "Unknown Location". Hope this helps

Hey Wazat - it's a case of being in the right place at the right time........ Or maybe it's many years in the supermarket game - it's all about customer service, you know!! BTW, if you don't want your cache published while you're still working on it, then untick the little box that says - "Yes, this listing is active (For new listings, if you want to work on this listing before it is reviewed, uncheck this box. Reviewers will only see the listing in the queue when it is checked.) " That will give you a "Work in Progress" listing, and when you're ready, then tick the box to drop it into the review queue. As a WIP, it's not in my review queue, so I won't see it. Regards, Andy

If you're going to EL, try "The Swinging Monkeys" and "Water Hazard" - they'll make you cry about leaving SA...!!

Whoa!! Stop the bus - you guys need to talk to some of the MPU cachers who don't read the forums that often.... MPU is prime territory for "nog 'n Tonteldoos". Try contacting - Guineafowl, GerhardoosMPsa, TAMOtters, Bouts777, Master Blasters, and especially Guineafowl (did I say that already?) - I'm sure she will be into this series like a shot!!! In fact, how about a "Tonteldoos" cache in "Tonteldoos", the town? Yes, there is one, somewhere in MPU, quite a long way from most of the places we know well. As iemand wil weet waar is "Tonteldoos" - dis somewhere naby Stofberg (waar is Stofberg?? - somewhere naby Tonteldoos) - OK, ek het baie keer daardeur gery, kannie onthou presies waar is dit nie, en dit wys nie op my Mapsource nie - maar Tonteldoos bestaan!!

Hey Bob - I've just worked out why you've been battling.... You're supposed to hide caches, not cachers!!!

Ek sien geen probleem met wat julle beoog, so lank die skatte voldoen aan die GC "guidelines". Ek raai aan dat julle die webblaaie in beide Afrikaans en Engels doen, en ek sien ook geen probleem om hulle almal op 'n spesifieke dag to publiseer.

Thanks Erik, for your kind words, and for the many years that you've assisted cachers in SA. It was great to spend time with you and Carol, and to hunt some caches together. Also thank you for the confidence you have shown in me - I'm very honoured. I'll give it my best, but I know that you'll be a tough act to follow. I'm looking forward to my new duties, so keep those new caches rolling.....