Mudfrog

I'm just not seeing this at all. NMs and NAs aren't being treated the same. A NM that comes through won't be automatically archived. Owners that receive NMs on their cache are given plenty of opportunity to take care of a problem. It's only when they refuse to do even the most basic things, such as logging that they are aware and will check on the cache when they can, that a reviewer might get more aggressive. The cache owner is the one that brings this about,,, not finders posting NMs, not the CHS, not the reviewer, and not Groundspeak.

I'm still not sure how you're equating the two log types. They're both useful but still quite different from each other. The needs maintenance log gives the owner and future finders a heads up that the cache may need some attention. A reviewer is not going to mess with this cache UNLESS its owner ignores the situation. On the other hand, a needs archived log is looked at more closely and usually results in swifter reviewer action. That cache has a problem and we all know darn well it will continue to have that problem if its owner ignores it. We shouldn't depend on dry weather to bring a wet cache back to life. The cache needs help and you did the right thing by posting the NM. The owner needs to take responsibility at this point, something he or she signed up for in the first place.

Dang,,, ya got me beat! I think my best was 7 days and that came about by accident. I like to challenge myself but this is not the kind of challenge I would find to be worth while. As far as stopping, everyone is different and there is no right answer. Everyone has to decide for themselves if and when they want to end it.

The answer is simple. Log your DNF along with a needs maintenance. If the cache already has standing NM logs, then a needs archived log may be in order.

No if, ands, or buts,,, this is a way of judging someone's log. I don't think we need a like, great, or any other kind of easy to click button for this. If i feel inclined to say i enjoyed reading someone's log, then i will let them know and/or say so in my own log. There's no doubt this will end up having a negative effect with some if a positive reaction never comes their way. You would think something like this might help to coax people into logging more than just the "found it/ tftc" logs that we see so much of today. With all the phone logging though, i doubt we will see any change. Imo, this would be very similar to cache favorite points that are supposed to be a positive thing. Placing a favorite point on a cache is judging that cache and at the same time, a cache that never gets favorited is being judged. Here again, you would think the favorite point system would help to encourage better cache placement but this hasn't been the case.

Mine is the same way. She's interested if i tell her the cache is regular in size and big enough to hold stuff. Otherwise, she doesn't wanna go. Some of the blame for this rebellion is on me because i started her so young. She was less than a month old on her first long hike (front chest carrier that she slept in through most of it). I was the stay at home dad so i had her on most all my caching trips, many of them day long events with friends. She had fun finding and looking through caches but that fun went away when the amount of regular sized caches diminished.

It makes sense that most all cachers would enjoy finding quality caches that have some thought/effort put into them. Question is, why do so many of those same cachers refrain from hiding the same?

I'm down here in southeast Texas where ticks and redbugs are plentiful. I've been going out in the woods for around 50 years so i guess i'm just used to the notion that they will get on me at times. These bugs just don't bother me and i'd rather put up with them than put a chemical next to my skin that someday might cause me health problems or be caught up in a lawsuit. I'm also lucky in that i can touch poison ivy and not be bothered too much by it. Mosquitoes bug me more and i do sometimes spray the junk on to keep them from carrying me off. It's one of those things i weigh, which is worse, chemicals or being eatin alive. Sometimes the spray wins. p.s. I'm knocking on wood too!

The culture has certainly changed but i'm not sure i'd call it the "power trail" culture. Again, the main problem i see is that newer people pretty much only see one thing. Easier to find, almost all small traditionals. The easy is what the app gives them, unless they pony up for premium, and the small is what cachers like placing these days. I'm sure most people get excited when they find their first easy micro using their phone but, how long does the excitement last afterwards? From my observations, not very long for most. .

I saw this happen several times back in the day before challenge caches were nixed. This being, people placing caches solely to help other cachers meet a challenge. Cache owners actually stated this in their cache descriptions. They weren't all rubbish but at the same time, most had nothing else going for them.

Every stat i've seen has showed a decline so i'm not sure what stats you're looking at. My statements come from first hand experience. I've been watching the decline come about for at least a couple of years now. A new cacher will show up every once in a while but before long, they're gone. Our more difficult caches seldom get found and some haven't been found in years. We do have one park and grab type cache hidden at an interstate rest area that still gets logged somewhat routinely, but even it has about half the traffic it once had. Events still take place but except for the few diehards that like to eat out, attendance is low. Last Monday's event had a total of 5 people in attendance. Geocaching is apparently moving along just fine in some areas. Unfortunately, ours isn't doing as well..

I'm just going by what i have witnessed first hand from a few people i know. As we all know, there are some people that like these kinds of things and can keep going and going. A couple of those cachers griped a lot but at the end, said it felt good to complete the challenge. In the same breath though, they also stated they would NEVER do it again. I don't think it helped overall though as just about all of them have quit or slowed their geocaching activity down immensely.

Maybe a step at limiting decline but it may backfire. Every, and i mean every, cacher i know that went for a streak, developed almost a hatred for having to go out and find a geocache every day. Some quit midstream and never looked back. Some kept at it because they felt they didn't want to waste all the effort they had put into it from the beginning. I never heard so much whining and crying, especially towards the ends of those streaks.. And of course, there were the ones that cheated fudged their finds to "complete" the goal. Except for being able to brag at an event, there wasn't much else positive for them about the experience.

This is exactly what i've seen happen. Many cachers that used to put thought into and maintain their hides are gone. With the app came a new breed of cacher, mainly game players that never really discovered what geoaching really was. The few caches they found were mainly of the easy park and grab micro variety so it was inevitable that they'd grow bored fairly quickly and then move on to the next app. Cache owners with those more difficult caches had less logs coming in. The few logs that did come in contained very little content. It's no wonder many COs developed the feeling that it seemed pointless to go through any trouble of putting much effort into future hides. Hiding is/was the more important aspect for many cachers and when they figure out it's for not, they sometimes begin losing interest. There are dedicated geocachers who are sticking it out. There are some areas where geocaching is thriving and where quality is an important part of the hobby. But i don't believe this is the case for many, probably most, areas. The declining numbers don't tell the whole story but they do show that there are issues that need to be addressed.

Ran a query to list all caches published since January 1st. The result was 38 caches but it didn't list 11 already archived events. In total, 49 caches for the year within 50 miles. That's actually better than i thought.

I sincerely wish i could say the same. It depends on where you live i suppose because our area is very slow these days. I rarely get notices that ours and caches on my watchlist get found. We rarely see new caches placed in the area. Our monthly event still happens but it's gone from an average of probably around 30 to less than 10 attendees per event. I realize i'm not helping the situation since i'm not caching or attending like i used to. I'll just have to use the "it's me, not you" excuse because i know that i'm the one that hasn't changed with the times. Factors? Heck, i figured y'all were tired of hearing these from me. The phone app is one thing that i feel hasn't helped. Yes, it does bring in a lot of people but most of the people it brings in don't end up staying very long. I figure most get bored because the app limits what they can find and they never get a chance to really explore what geocaching can be. The others see the app as just another game that they soon get tired of playing. Another factor,, the condoning of power trails and the non promotion of quality. Quantity is the name of the game so thought and creativeness has pretty much gone by the wayside. I know too many cachers that started caching for smiley count but then got bored and are just about through with geocaching these days.

It would be great if we could speak plainly and everyone else understand. Unfortunately, it doesn't work this way, especially here in these forums. Like theBruce, i don't like having to be so specific with my wording and i don't like having to add all the extra unneeded details. But i know up front, that if i don't, people will read all kinds of things into it or misunderstand the simplest meaning(s) i'm trying to convey. Yeah, i know people do get turned off when they encounter caches in bad shape. But, do you really believe this is one of the big contributing factors for why geocaching is in the state it is in today. I don't!

I understand where you're coming from for sure. Owner maintenance is important and not something to take lightly. But there are a few cases such as yours, where there is plenty of evidence to show everything is ok with the cache. This would be an instance where i feel an OM log is fine without a visit to the cache site. I agree, i haven't figured out the rhyme or reason for how the algorithm works. The nearest cache from me has three DNFs in a row, from three separate people at three different times. The last one came in just about a year ago. The last logged find was back in 2016. No maintenance and no log from the owner. Seems strange that this cache listing sits and goes on but at the same time, the algorithm picked up on my cache last year with just the two DNFs.

The information you have from the DNFer would make it easy for me. I'd post an OM log and be done with it. If another DNF does happen to come in, then disable and check when you can.

I guess i'm missing something. What's the penalty for having a low CHS? Or, what are the drawbacks? If your CHS ends up being low, are you punished in some fashion? Are you not allowed to hide anymore caches until you get your CHS back up on your existing caches? Do we actually get to see our CHS score? Yes, because of my pride, i try my darndest to maintain my caches the best i can. I certainly don't do it because of the CHS system that Groundspeak has put into place.

Well, for me it's very easy to just disable the thing if i believe there is a problem. Disabling gives me plenty of time to come up with a plan. Of course if i don't think there is a problem with the cache, then i leave it be. More than likely, someone will come along later and find. If that doesn't happen within a week or two, then i'll move to step 2, making plans to go out and check on the cache. Like yours, some of our caches take some effort and time to get to. Checking on one of those isn't straightforward and requires some planning.

That's not what i said at all. I just meant that any cache can get pinged under the right circumstances. I received one of the emails a while back on one of our caches. I figure it was sent because of 2 DNFs that came in that i didn't look into. After reading all the concerns and gripes on here, i guess i was supposed to have been angry that i received it, but it was obvious after reading, that it wasn't sent to cause me any angst. Below is the exact wording of the email. Hello Mudfrog, Your geocache, Olive (GC227GM), looks like it might need some attention. The recent logs may contain more details about what sort of maintenance needs to be performed. This could be anything from a new logbook to replacing a missing container. Here are a few options for what to do now: Maintenance: Visit your geocache, make any needed repairs, and post an “Owner Maintenance” log so the community knows it’s available to find. Disable: If you cannot check on your geocache within a reasonable amount of time, please disable your geocache listing. Once you perform maintenance, you can enable it and post an “Owner Maintenance” log. Archive: If you decide it is time for your geocache to be permanently retired, please archive the listing and retrieve all physical stages. For tips about how to perform maintenance and to learn why Geocaching HQ sends occasional geocache maintenance reminders, please see this Help Center article. Thanks, Geocaching HQ I've read over it a few times and for the life of me, cannot see anywhere in it, a demand for me to go check on my cache asap. I really don't understand why the CHS and its automated email causes so much concern.

I always find these threads about CHS amusing. People worried about how the CHS affects them or that they might receive the dreaded nag email. Even the most diligent CO can make a mistake and receive the email. It's not a biggie unless you're a lazy CO that hates receiving automated geocaching dot com emails. It's very rare that i check on a cache because of a single DNF. If an automated email did come in, then i'd check to see if there was anything going on with the cache. It wouldn't matter if i found a problem or not, i'd be sure to post an OM log stating that the cache was good to go,

I'm not greedy but i do want a cache to have something going for it than just another chance at upping smiley count. An interesting location, a nice view, a site that has some history behind it. A cache that is somewhat challenging to get to or retrieve. And/or, a weatherproof container that does not produce soggy contents when opened, maybe one that is unique or uniquely hidden/camouflaged. I don't expect to find a cache that incorporates all these things but it is nice when a cache has at least one. Unfortunately, most include none of the above.

This about sums it up for me. I try to find caches i think i will like. Only thing is, those caches are few and very far between. Caching activity in our area is very slow right now and of the few caches placed in the last year, all look to have been easy park and grab type caches. And like you, my logs used to be more than just a sentence or two. I made many day long caching trips with friends that like finding as many as they could. I'd come home dreading having to log all the days caches, which resulted in my logs getting shorter and shorter. Not proud of it, but i even resorted to copy and pasting on some of the more monotonous series that we did.