TheManInStripes

Wow. This thread has BLOWN UP since I last looked at it yesterday. I've still got one whole page to read before I see where it's going now. And I guess part of the reason I missed the first two threads of which you speak is because a comment I made in the cake thread was deemed offensive. Thankfully, Michael at Groundspeak ended my 30 day suspension early.

Okay, so where do they draw the line? When is something taken without permission too insignificant to trifle with? Just because a LEO or the general public has no concept of what a geocache is, it's all right for people to swipe them? Once you start rationalizing and marginalizing what is a theft and what isn't you start down a pretty slippery slope. The value of a geocache with some decent swag and a couple of travel bugs might be ... what ... $15? Do you think the police would blow it off if a geocacher walked into this person's front yard and took a $15 yard ornament? Especially if they know who took it, and have already asked for it back and been denied? No one expects a county-wide manhunt for a tupperware box. But an officer knocking on a door and saying "You have something that doesn't belong to you. Return it." takes 5 minutes and sends a pretty clear message that swiping other people's stuff and refusing to return it when asked isn't acceptable behavior. The police blowing it off sends the message that it is. Which would you prefer to become a precedent? I would prefer that these officers get out and track down the murderers, rapists, and child molestors. Worrying about a $15 tupperware box of goodies, or a $15 yard ornament seems petty to me.

Kit-- Let me begin by saying that I don't intend this to be a personal attack against you. I am simply trying to understand your line of thinking. You are a very active person on these forums, and often advocate for changes as you believe they should be, and that is why I take this example from your post to ask my question. I would gladly welcome an answer from anyone to this question, not just you. I can't help but wonder what it is about people such as yourself that makes you insist on defining what's right for everyone else. People participate in geocaching in different ways for different reasons. What may seem right to you may not seem right to someone else, and vice-versa. Just like the idea of what is fun and what is not fun. What some people think is a fun aspect of this game, others want no part of. The bottom line is, these forums would be much more pleasant if people could accept that just because people disagree with them doesn't make that person wron, inferior, or any less of a participant in the game then they are.

They only lasted as long as the event, so they don't meet GC guidelines. Is this the new method for lazy hiders to avoid maintenance, and cache permanence, placing "one day caches?" So how many times did you actually attend the event? Your stats aren't the main issue. Its the nasty stink created by all of the "liberalization of geocaching," ploys. Examples include: Cachers log attends for non GC approved caches. Cachers log finds for caches they never found, but since they visited "ground zero" they deserve a find. Cachers log each waypoint of a multi as finds. Cachers continue hiding crappy caches in crappy locations, all to increase their hide stats. Cachers share TB and Geocoin lists to "discover" trackables they never found. In short, there are many of us that would like Geocaching.com to have more black and white guidelines, to follow. Some of us jump into these threads strictly to stir the pot, and others (like me) debate these recurring issues because we feel strongly about them. If you want to find your own Easter Eggs, log temp caches, etc, have fun. Did you hear about the easter egg hunt at the home for Alzheimer's Patients?? They hide their own eggs!!!!

You are correct, but it is one step closer to being labeled abusing the system. I'm happy. What is so "abusive" about playing within the rules of the game? The King hid a bunch of caches. The people that came to his party FOUND a bunch of caches. Why shouldn't they be allowed to claim credit for each of their finds? I think everyone here has admitted that what was done was done within the guidelines set on the site. Did I say abuse? My bad, please carry on. Well, if you say thiat this is "one step closer to being labeled abusing the system," you must thing something abusive was going on.

I love this idea. Implement it at once please!!!

You are correct, but it is one step closer to being labeled abusing the system. I'm happy. What is so "abusive" about playing within the rules of the game? The King hid a bunch of caches. The people that came to his party FOUND a bunch of caches. Why shouldn't they be allowed to claim credit for each of their finds? I think everyone here has admitted that what was done was done within the guidelines set on the site.

I love what KingBoreas has now posted on his cache page. And he is exactly right. It seems that the same people that want the rules enforced exactly as written are the same ones that get upset when people do things within the rules that they just don't agree with. You can't have it both ways.

Actually, I would be upset if it did take away from an officer chasing down murderers, rapists and child molesters, but most police departments have "community" officers and this is exactly their job! They don't chase down the afore mentioned undesirablescriminals. They solve neighborhood and personal issues. Slight edit there. Hope you don't mind.

I like this idea. And I would recommend they run it as a humor column. In all seriousness, I have a good idea. I would challenge people to go and talk to your local law enforcement officers, explain to them what geocaching is, and then this situation as presented. Then, ask them how a case like this would be handled if it was reported to their local department. I will start a new thread sometime late tonight or early tomorrow morning where people can share what they found out. I will also contact some local officers I know and get their take on the situation.

Finally, someone who gets it!!! I mean really, what would you rather have your local police officers doing -- worrying about a missing geocache, or chasing down murderers, rapists, and child molesters?

You might be able to make that argument for a cache left on public land, but NOT private land. Otherwise, every tree stand, hammock, picnic table, and camper left for a summer would be up for grabs. And clearly that's NOT the case. It may not be, however, when you post coords on a public website, inviting anyone and everyone to that location to find the cache, and someone decides to take not only contents of the cache, but the cache itself, again, I say, this is going to be practically impossible to prosecute or sue someone for in court. Different people participate in this activity in different ways. Sorry, there really are no hard and fast rules. And if someone decides to go on to the private property, containing a cache placed with permission, and remove it, they have as much permission to be on that private property as any other geocacher, so getting them prosecuted for trespassing would be rather difficult don't you think?

This makes you BRILLIANT!!

Ahhhh, the never ending discussion continues. How about this: If you aren't first, you're last. I've neve liked Nascar, but Talladega Nights produced a great line, and I think it applies well to Geocaching.

Change the time zone you are telling it that you are in. That should do the trick.

This is abandoned property. I doubt a letter of any kind will get them wanting to return anything. Not in the eyes of the law. Abandoned property means the owner has revoked all claims of ownership. A geocache is not abandoned. Neither are shipwrecks, or lost jewelry if the owner has any desire to reclaim them. And like I said in my first post. PLEASE, email me as soon as someone SUCCESSFULLY gets "the law" involved in one of these reclamations. I now carry a Motorola Q and will receive such message INSTANTLY. I am LONGING for that to happen!!!

OK, first of all, I admit that I posted my first reply before reading the entire thread. It astounds me to no end that a MODERATOR of all people could so substantially change their position in just abou an hour and a half. But I digress. There is something that people in this activity of geocaching don't seem to understand. Items placed in the forest, or anywhere else for that matter, are no longer your property. As a matter of fact, most items placed IN a cache are left there with the HOPES that someone else will come along and take them. Of course, we want anyone that decides to come to play by our own rules, but that doesn't always happen. So sometimes, you just have to move on. Calling in the police is just a waste of their time and our tax dollars. Sending them a certified letter is a waste of time and your resources as well. I look forward to the day that I read the first news story of someone that is successful in getting the police to go and get their cache back for them. Better yet, a civil judgement against someone that remove a cache, and the judge ordered the cache to be returned. I want to be the first person you all notify whenever this happens.

This is abandoned property. I doubt a letter of any kind will get them wanting to return anything.

I'm curious to know if anyone has used the Motorola Q for geocaching? If so, what programs, etc? I tried searching the forums for this, but because Q is less than 3 characters, I couldn't do a search for "Motorola Q."

Aren't STF and 17th to find the same thing?

I think that's about the stupidest looking cake I've ever seen.

Stealing stop signs is too much effort, and tripping old ladies with strollers is downright mean. But kicking cats -- I wouldn't even think twice about doing that!!! You are too darn sensitive about this stuff Hairy.

That's a valid way to feel. After all, if you ain't first, you're last!!!

As someone who employs this tactic, I would WELCOME someone doing this to me, and quite frankly, would just laugh it off and wait for the next new cache. Then, I'd see what else I could come up with to liven things up a bit. I guess that's just the goofiness in me. MAybe I'd try what the prankster thread suggested. I do hope you stay put there in Alaska...already conversed on what my feelings toward your sense of humor is in an earlier topic. If I'm ever forced to come to Michigan against my will, I'll make sure and let you know I'm there. Or maybe, I'll just make my presence known some other way.

I think I'd have a nice surprise for all subsequent finders if someone tried to pull this off.