Roman!

I'm still curious why GS felt they needed to make this change in the first place, they are a listing service and the more restrictive they become the less people will use them for listing.

I was being dramatic. Substitute "must be prevented" for "terrible" if it helps you answer the question. That's a good guess, and really the only thing I can think of, too, but it's truly trivial to put in rules to prevent serial events without stopping hikes or individual flashmobs. So the more obvious example is simply any flashmob: obviously GS feels those should be prevented. Yet this doesn't really prevent them because, as others have just explained, the same solution works for a flashmob: declare it will be 30 minutes, but then everyone can leave after the mob flashes. Well, some people are saying the CO has to stay the full 30 minutes, but I'm still not seeing how the guidelines require even that. Basically, GS wants all events to be parties. No other kind of event is to be allowed. If you want to take a hike or go rafting, those activities must happen after the 30 minute party is over. I'm not sure why they're so intent to limit events to parties, but obviously from the discussion on this thread, they have a lot of support. I do not see a lot of support for the decision in this thread, I'm neither for nor against the change as GS has not stated the reason they made it so I can't judge. I think this thread is more about the confusion of cezanne's reaction to the change than anything else.

I expect Roman! will probably use some of this data as evidence that people spend too much time sitting at home on their computer rather than out caching, and will try to get rid of the forums along with puzzle caches. ...or something like that. Who am I to judge?

I would suggest the fact that they publish them knowing what's involved, and they know people log them as such is an implicit endorsement. Contrast that with the fact that webcam caches which are being logged by people taking selfies on their phones get archived, because GS disapprove of that practice. GS does not approve of this, they archive webcams that are not functioning when it comes to their attention. I would not log a selfie on a webcam either.

Simple, Did you sign the log?

I find it hard to believe that Groundspeak has an opinion either way, let alone an official endorsement. Well the ones I did years ago had several caches round the world and I believe when the originator came up with the idea the revewers he approached bumped the question "upstairs" for clarification and they were given the go-ahead. Given GS' penchant for banning certain wording from cache pages I'm sure they would clamp down on the relevant terms in the cache pages if they disapproved. I did one a couple of years ago that involved 4 people in 4 different countries, I logged the one in Canada that I actually found, it never even occurred to me to even consider logging the other 3 caches.

Unless I got to GZ of the final and signed the log or was present at GZ when my name was signed I would not log the cache.

No messing around for you?

The sum of the changes over the last years let real hiking events almost die out in my area. I revert you back to my picture, maybe it's a prediction for your area if GS keep making changes in the coming months/years. There is a saying about those that can not adapt.

Problem solved:

What's is your find count to forum post ratio.? I have 12,386 finds and 2,490 posts for a ratio of 4.97:1

I had no need to host an event as others who did a better job than I ever could organized the events I enjoyed to participate in. I already provided a concrete example of an event (though not a hiking event) which will not take place in the future as the event host got fed up by the changed rules. Many others have already given up due to some earlier changes. So, yes, the event rules definitely affect me. The new rules have a very minor impact on hiking events, I'd hate to see what would happen in your area if GS made a drastic change.

This just has to be an excuse. Events more or less run themselves. Good events which are something special do not run themselves. It could well be that this is a commonly accepted behaviour in your area for an event host. In mine this is not the case. I would do the same if I had those abilities which unfortunately is not the case. That's why I tried to explain that the outdoor events involving physical activity that I could organize and at the same time cope with the involved responsibility would have to be events with lots of attendants. There are simply too many cachers in my area meanwhile. I think that it's very difficult for people coming from a completely different area and geocaching scene to understand the particular situation I'm writing about. You have been a member since 2002 and not hosted a single event so not quite sure how the new rules affect you.

No it's not, there is a cache in space.

And none hosted, these new guidelines are sure cramping her style.

Because I prefer events to be something special - like jewels and not broken pieces of dirty glass. The guidelines also allow me to hide a lame guardrail micro - I will never do so. I prefer caches that are regard as attractive and that applies also to events. A rest break event is extremely lame from my point of view while a hiking event is attractive to me. So just because you can't call your event a hike and can't list the hike time as the event duration this makes the hike less special?

And this is a problem how?

We're familiar with the workaround. But it would be nice to list the hike (or rafting trip, or cycling trip, or whatever) as the event cache, since it is the real purpose of the gathering. And although it doesn't always work this way, I have been on hikes and cycling trips where we left within a few minutes of the announced time. Some participants arrived just before the announced time. Some arrived much earlier. Some of the early arrivals stayed in their cars until just before the announced time. Some started mingling soon after they arrived. But the hike or the cycling trip didn't start until the announced time. (Rafting and canoe trips haven't worked that way just because the drivers took at least half an hour to shuttle vehicles to the take-out point. But once the drivers got back, everyone else was ready to go and we were on the water shortly after the drivers had their PFDs on.) My paddle events (http://coord.info/GC40TX5 for an example) usually depart pretty close to the listed launch time. I'll bet that it takes people a good amount of time from when they park till they're ready to go, list the event 1/2 hour before launch time, you're the only one that needs to be there that early anyways.

The best point I've seen, if an event is hosted from 12 - 5 and I show up at 2 the event host or a representative should be there to meet me. Another good point, have the event at the meal break/rest point. Why this obsession to list the hike as the event, list the hike in the description, heck, call the event "5 hour hike rest break"

I've yet to see it but I'd think it would be pretty funny.

Do you give the same answer to someone who attends or organizing a pizza eating event? It's not about the 5 minutes. With the same right you can say that if you want to eat pizza at place X, order a table and don't create a GC event. What about if someone wants to get together with other geocachers (known and unknown ones) and socialize while hiking? Don't they have the same right to do that than those who want to combine eating pizza with getting together with geocachers (known and unknown ones)? Odds that I pass a geocache on an event hike where I have not been are very low. Moreover, I'm not attended an event to gecocache and I do not appreciate at all when geocachers leave events early when they get notifications about newly published caches and rush for the first find. This by the way also happens much less likely on hiking events when it happens at urban events. Again you seem to be creating a problem specialized to you. How hard can it be to start the event 1/2 hour before heading out on the hike, it takes people a good 15/20 minutes to get ready once they park their car, a group, easily a 1/2 hour. I'm really not sure what's stopping you from having your hiking event anyways.

So you're doing the hike for a ? If you want to show up and be hiking 5 minutes later then don't create a GC event just hike. I see hiking as geocaching because odds are there's caches along the trail, I have never considered I deserve an extra smiley for doing the hike.

Well, yes. If you assume that the entirety of the event cache will occur at the posted coordinates, then yes, the event cache has to occur at the posted coordinates for the duration specified in the listing. But that's issue. Why must the event cache be stationary? Why can't it start at the posted coordinates at a stated start time, then move along a specified route, eventually returning to the posted coordinates at a stated end time? Wouldn't an easy work around be to post the starting time of the event as 6:35 and let people know you will be heading off to do whatever at 7:05? I'd be amazed if you could actually get everyone organized to depart 5 minutes after the posted start time.

Obviously you have never had to cuddle with your wife. Let's not make this personal, eh Roman? That kind of humor is, with me, off limits. Nothing personal, The you was not you but a general you implying I've had to cuddle with my wife for 30 minutes and it was a long, long time.

You're like me in that i don't cache for smiley count. But at the same time, i want my find count that i do have to be correct. I've signed a few challenge cache logs that i don't qualify for (it's possible i never will) but i never thought that doing this would mess up my stats in any way. These are not traditional caches. Locating the physical cache and signing its logsheet is just one part of claiming a found it on a challenge cache. We still have to meet the challenge and log it online before it becomes a statistical find. Ah, but you chose GS as the listing service of the caches you found and you chose them to keep a record of your finds and that means they define the find. Your find count is correct according to GS. If you want your find count to be correct according to you either create your own listing service or stats page.