Fugads

Pardon my naivety, but is the "corrected coords option" just something available through aps and API partners (such as GSAK)? I use neither but think it would be great to use this option through the website, and since some of these forum topics are on the website category, I was thinking maybe I was missing out on this feature. However, despite reading various forums and trying different things on the website, I have not found any "corrected coords" option on the website. Sure I can post coordinates with a log, but for solved puzzles I obviously don't want to do that (they will be displayed on the log for others to see). And I can put the coordinates in the "Personal Cache Note", but that doesn't appear to be the same thing as what is being discussed here. Am I just missing something obvious, somewhere on the website where you can enter corrected coordinates for solved puzzles or is this only something for people with aps/API/GSAK interfaces?

I have helped several TB/coins with this kind of goal. One I have right now wants to go on long but relatively easy hikes where the only real challenge is length and gradual elevation change, TB5QT62. I like these kind of TBs. They don't move often, but at least they go to fun places. I released a bunch of TBs that only want to visit "Lonely" caches, defined as those that see less than 4 visits per year (example my Lonely Cache Hunter: Shark which is currently in a 5/5 multi on a remote desert mountain ridge). I can't expect these to move often, but when they do I'm hoping they go to some neat out-of-the-way caches.

Great post Corfman Clan. As a fellow wanderer of these southwestern deserts, I can sympathize, especially about the spiny things. I've been fortunate not to have any serious injuries though. A few bouts of bad dehydration (dry-heaving bad) had me worried, but I was always able to recover with a rest-day afterwards. Despite having ample opportunity out in the desert peaks, the caching experience that hurt the most was when I went after an "urban jungle" cache in Las Vegas, back in May 2012. This was one of those caches involving storm drains. Short story: I only had the final coordinates and not any other info, ended up choosing the wrong entrance and crawled my way 500 ft or so in a tiny concrete tube, scraping my knees and elbows really badly. Perhaps if I was properly equipped for such spelunking it wouldn't have been so bad. I was sore for a week after that experience. Long story here. Funny thing is, I was just looking at that cache listing again and someone had a similar experience to me just a few months ago, although perhaps they were better prepared for the crawl. After my bad experience, the CO did update the cache listing stating that if you're crawling you're in the wrong place. Alas, those of us still not equipped with paperless caching devices or smart-phones may miss this beta (starting to wonder if I'm one of the last of this dying breed).

I suppose people may define "red herring" different ways. What you're describing sound more like what some have describe here as "decoy caches". To me, a red herring in the context of a puzzle cache would be an intentionally embedded piece of information that would lead the potential solver down a path that eventually leads to a dead end. For example, a cache owner might include a link to a web site that appears to be related to the puzzle. The potential solver might click on the link then start looking for clues that would help solve the puzzle but it would just be a dead end and offer no helpful information that could help solve the puzzle. The link is the red herring. I feel I didn't catch the idea. In my example the note in the cat container with false puzzle/coordinates leaving to the pig container (which is dead end) is not the red herring. In your example the link to the website that leads to the dead end is the red herring. The difference is that in the pig cache there's some vague clue that could (or could not) be helpful and in your example the "bogus" website has no information at all. Is this the difference? Does "red herring" means it leads to the "absolute" dead end? Or did you mean that red herrings were supposed to be posted online? Certainly there is room for interpretation as to what is a "Red Herring" and it is most definitely an english language idiom, so those whose native languages are not English may have other terms for it. The dictionary/wiki definition leaves plenty of room for interpretation, Wikipedia: red Herring. My take is that it truly must be a dead end. In your example if the pig container did not have a hint leading back to the cat's head, it would certainly be a Red Herring. And it would very much frustrate cachers and probably not be liked very much (I imagine). I have also heard people call these kind of hides decoys (something you find which is not what you are looking for, but at least the CO states that it is the wrong thing so you know to keep looking). However, I did not mean that red-herrings were suppose to be online although for many who enjoy working on puzzles, the red herrings pop up well before they go into the field. I also completely agree with earlier responses that sharing red herrings may reduce puzzle enjoyment for some, or even reveal too much especially for some of the "harder" puzzles out there. The line between what is a red herring and what is simply misdirection is blurry. So perhaps this thread should fizzle out right now. Really, my intention was to share what I found to be some amusing and rather inconsequential red herrings. I bet there are some really wicked ones out there and I thought it would be fun for people to share (much in the vein of sharing your worst injury suffered while geocaching). Perhaps though, the best action is to simply discover these red herrings myself.

Excuse me if this was covered in a previous forum topic. I did some searching but did not find a thread that was specifically about this subject and thought it could be amusing. Over the course of a few years of working puzzle caches, I have a few moments where I was absolutely positive that I had the solution or right approach, only to find out I was chasing a Red Herring solution. When appropriately done these can make you smile. In other cases, it just points out how clueless you really are. Example A: One of our local puzzles involves a 15x10 matrix of two-digit numbers. This one had a couple red herrings but the one that I bit on involved recognizing a particular pattern in the matrix of numbers. A very nice solution resulted from this pattern, just too perfect for coincidence. Only the problem was the coordinates were a private residence and not searchable (plus the coord checker tells you this is wrong). Turns out it was the home of another one of the local puzzle cachers. This red herring was intentional and meant to give that other cacher a good laugh, but amusingly he never found the "tribute" red-herring. Example B: One puzzle I worked on had multiple stages with different ciphers. One of the ciphers involved a 6x7 grid of numbers (digits 0-9). At one of the other stages I found a string of text with 42 characters in it and assumed that it related to the grid of numbers. I spent months trying to determine how to use the matrix to decode the text string. Turns out they weren't related at all. The CO hadn't intended this as a Red Herring, but I bit on it hard anyways. Obviously, sharing solutions to puzzle caches is forbidden, but sharing red-herring solutions? Seems harmless to me? And provides a forum to vent puzzle solving frustration... (or delight if you will).

Is it bad form to resurrect an old topic (what not posted to since 2004?)? Who doesn't love reading a well written and humorous log. Even better when it's on one of your caches. The cacher Aerialmedical down in El Paso, TX always posts good stuff. Here is one of his from a cache near one of our local geological features: He also posts cool pictures with his logs. Check out the log entry.

In a cache I recently found was this interesting anecdote about the cache being destroyed by a mountain lion. Naturally I am skeptical, but stranger stuff has happened. Maybe the previous container used to store raw meat and wasn't washed very well (ugh)? I'm not sure how a cougar could damage a geocoin... maybe all the CO meant was that the coin was in good/pristine shape despite the assault. Regardless, it was a fun find.

A lot of interesting debate here. One thought I wanted to add: When a series of caches have copy-paste listings (perhaps common in power-trails?), copy-paste logs are appropriate. There are of course exceptions to this, some series make each cache something unique and memorable. But for many, the CO is not attempting to create a new and different experience at each cache. If the CO is not going to the effort to do this, then a generic log entry is appropriate. I suspect these COs do not typically read through each of the logs on these series anyways (probably get them filtered straight to a special folder in their mailbox... like the trash folder). I would be curious to hear thoughts from these COs though. If you are the CO of a 50-cache power trail called "Geocaching the XXX rd" #1-50, what do you like to get from people finding your trail? On the few trails in my area, I've looked back at the logs. The longer the trail the more likely it is to be copy-paste, but even the shorter trails have a large share of copy-paste logs. The case where someone writes something different on each of the 50 caches is rare indeed.

There are certainly times when having a beta-tester is nice, like for caches with field puzzles, multiple stops with questions to answer, that sort of thing. I have certainly asked local cachers to field test some of mine, especially when it is going to be published to coincide with an event and I want to make sure it works properly for that event. Of course, due diligence on my part comes first, but it's nice to have a little bit of feedback/reassurance before the cache goes live, especially for the trickier ones. On a side note: In my area people who are with the CO during placement usually wait until after the FTF is posted to post their find, and then date their post after the FTFers. This is due to the local popularity of a somewhat competitive cache-scoring site called the Lonelycacheproject. If someone posts a find before the true FTF, they "steal" that persons FTF "points". Kind of silly, and totally outside of gc.com, but around here people are generally amenable to this. Or at least the caches that are worth any significant Lonely Cache Points (LCPs) are usually not the ones found by the masses anyways, so conflicts don't arise. The lonelycache scoring system is pretty interesting and is a fun way to prioritize your caching adventures. Judging from the kind of comments that many people post in these forums, I bet it would be popular in other areas of the country too, but right now it is limited to just certain states in the SW.

I second fizzymagic's assessment that some people enjoy watching others get totally frustrated with their puzzles/hides. In my area we have a bunch of these. I don't necessarily think that those that hide these think they are better/smarter than everyone else, they just like to cause a little mischief. I don't see anything necessarily wrong with this. Everyone plays the game they way they want to. Perhaps in some ways doing this helps those people vent their frustration from other caching experiences? I'll take a stab at some of these purposefully vengeful caches now and again, just because I don't mind taking on Quixotic challenges every now and again. Besides, whon doesn't love racking up a few choice DNFs?

The camera takes two AAs. I put a set in the container with the camera, but when they die, I assume people will just have to figure out to use/bring their own.

Thanks to all who provided me some feedback. The cache is now out, pre-reviewed and ready to be published for an event at the end of the month. After the feedback I received, I hemmed and hawed about what to do. In the end, the location is what pushed me to doing the cache a certain way. About a 3rd of the way up the canyon was a beautiful little side canyon. I placed the field-puzzle and tool in the main canyon and had them direct the seekers into the side canyon to find another stage. After finding that stage, they have to back track past the previous stages and can drop off the puzzle/tool on their way to the final. All tools and puzzles are well labeled with where they belong and I even managed to work some reminders into the puzzle to help seekers remember to replace items where they were found. I'm hoping this is enough to keep the cache as required for years to come. That and the low traffic due to being a hiking cache and in a moderately remote area. If it doesn't work out, I guess I'll just have to nip back up there and change things about. But for the time being, I'm quite pleased with how it turned out and am excited for cachers to give it a go.

These are very common with cache hiders in my area, with one power trail exclusively using them. For the longest time, I didn't know they were called pre-forms and what their original function was. The only time I had seen them before geocaching was when getting liquid yeast for brewing . Once painted dark green, brown or black, they can be pretty tough to find when well placed in a bush. The cap is often the give-away, with paint seeming to flake off easier (or maybe it's just from people opening and closing them). They also make for good stages in a multi, using a clear pre-form and gluing the lid shut. That said, they are not usually my favorite thing to find, but neither are bisons.

My home area, Las Cruces, NM.

OK, I'll bite. I have found and really enjoy finding geocaches in wilderness areas. I can see why some would be hesitant to discuss this topic openly though. The reason being is that the geocaches in those wilderness areas may not have been officially permitted by the land managers and they are worried that if they call attention to these caches, they will get archived. One example I have, some friends of mine placed 3 geocaches in the White Mtn Wilderness area (Southern NM). The caches were published, but about a week later, the reviewer was made aware that geocaches are not allowed in this wilderness area and the caches were archived (see GC32KEE, GC32KDR and GC32KE3. The caches are deep in the Wilderness area, requiring a 10 mile (round trip) hike to reach. Despite being archived, the caches stayed up there until just last week when I hiked some wilderness trails and retrieved the caches for my friends. What an amazing hike I had and such a beautiful area. The caches were well hidden such that no one not looking for them would know they were there. If they had been allowed, they would definitely be earning "favorite points" because they were truly quality places. There are a handful of other wilderness areas down here that have geocaches in them, and I've visited a lot of these. Again, they are wonderful trips and worthy geocaches (although they usually only see 1 or 2 geocacher visits a year, sometimes less). So my opinion would of course be to allow them to exist. My experience is that they do not pose any more significant impact to the wilderness areas than hikers, backpackers and hunters do already. What would be a land managers reason to not allow them? Some concern related to what they perceive geocaching to be? There are a lot of "junky" geocaches placed just about everywhere, from urban areas, to farmlands, to BLM lands. If land managers perceive geocaching to be just this I can see how they would not want it in their pristine wilderness areas. But as with hiking, hunting and backpacking, there is a justification for allowing people to pursue their recreations in these places. I'd be curious hear what you find out from talking to land managers of Wilderness areas, about the reasons to allow/disallow geocaching in these parts. Please do share when you have this research done.

For a lot of cachers in my area, going after the seldom found caches is particularly sought after (LCP/DGP anyone?). For me finding a well isolated and rarely found cache is a great feeling, even better than a FTF.

Thanks for the feedback. Originally I was thinking that people would need to bring their own camera-type tool in order to complete the multi. I can see this frustrating some if what they bring doesn't work. And then I remembered about the old digital camera I have collecting dust in closet. Perhaps making a "bonus" waypoint to the camera for those who do not have a suitable TOTT on them would work. And if/when the camera disappears, then this bonus option will go away but the cache will still be findable if not a little bit more difficult. I don't have any intention of replacing the old digital camera, I just was thinking of a fun way to put it to use.

I am putting together what I hope will be a fun and challenging multi cache in my region but am trying to figure out how to make it long-lasting. The two main reasons why I am concerned the cache will have problems are: Stages will contain clues/objects which need to be taken with you as you do the cache. These would need to be replaced after completion. I foresee confused cachers either not following directions, or finding it a drag to have to replace the clues/objects etc.. One of the stages is to contain an old digital camera that would be used to complete the multi. Camera is over 10 years old and was never very good to begin with, and is basically electronic junk in my house right now. How likely is it that this camera will "walk"? Anyone else have luck with caches containing "difficult to replace" items? Any tricks to help make sure the items stay where they belong? The multi will be laid out along a desert trail, probably 2-4 miles round-trip, out-and-back style hike. I am sure there are other caches that use similar ideas/concepts and am looking to learn from the experience of those that have found/hid these kinds of caches. Again my goal is to create a fun geocaching experience, but also one that is long lasting. Any valuable lessons learned or advice is appreciated.

On the topic of collages... I had a little bit of fun during the "31 Days Of August", finding a "streak" themed picture for each day and posting it to my "Found It" log. At the end I put all the pictures together into a collage which I posted to the event cache held at the end of the month in my area. Not nearly as professionally done as yours, but fun to make.

Could be Zion. I wish I could take credit for taking the picture, but no, I lifted it from Flicker.

I recently had a Challenge Cache published that ties into Geohashing. GC4JCB6. Another fun way to explore your area. There are actually quite a few geocaches with Geohashing themes, most of them in Europe.

I'm in the "never tried to streak before, but am trying this anyways" group and having fun with it. Definitely not something I'll do for the long-run but for a single month it seemed like a reasonable and fun challenge. To make things more fun, I post a "streak"-themed picture for each day that I find a cache this month. For example: I'll be going to a local event at the end of the month to swap stories. Looking forward to it.

For my 36 hides (so far) I've opted to keep them all open access. When I first started caching and wasn't "Premium" yet, it irked me that there were some caches in areas I was visiting that I wasn't allowed to go after. That ultimately led me to sign-up for Premium, and I haven't regretted it, but I made mental note that when I hid some caches, I wouldn't restrict access to them to "Premium Members". Not that I disagree with many of the points made about the usefulness of PMO caches. I tend to enjoy long hikes/climbs and simply placing a cache requiring such activity will make it feel "Premium Only" since only a certain brand of geocacher likes these. Caches like this get many of the benefits of PMO caches..without any stated exclusivity. In the end, as long as there are fun adventures to be had, it's all good.

Not winter related really, but relevant to the discussion. A local here in Southern NM made a cache in the middle of the Rio Grande, GC2TAC2. The idea was for people to have to wade across the water to get to a little island. However, the Rio Grande here get's "turned off" in winter so most of the year you could just walk across the sand and get the cache easily. The first year of this cache, the CO actually had the cache archived once the water stopped flowing. He then got it un-archived the next year. He has since stopped doing this and the cache has become easy to find for most the year (although he also brought the Terrain rating down. Not sure why exactly he stopped doing this, maybe it just felt like too much work). It sounds like you are wanting to do something similar, where the cache is simply made off-limits for part of the year. I suppose if the Reviewer is good with it, go for it. What's the worst that could happen you don't get your cache published and have to remove the container (or simply change the listing until it can be accepted)?