LifeOnEdge!

I think that quote was meant for me, I'm not BETA testing anything. Of course that post was meant for you. Your post was the one I quoted, hence ... What GPS unit(s) are you using?

So, I don't have any of this lying around. Where would I likely find it? --Marky ... R(e)move the o-ring, apply it sparingly, you want a very think coat, best to put a small quanity (think paper match head size) in your fingers and rub all around it. You should see no build up of the silicone anyplace. The treated o-ring should have a "gloss" to it and no build up. If you get dirt on the o-ring, remove it, wipe it and the mating surfaces on both pieces down with a paper towel, and then reapply. Would you mind editing your post or reposting and checking your spelling before you post please? (I'm teaching my African Grey this phrase as I type.) Do you mean THIN or THICK? Think is ambiguous.

Garmin is running a business, so why would you expect them to release incomplete information to an outside source? It's just not going to happen. I'm glad I didn't buy the BETA Colorado that's out now, but instead bought a completed GPSr. Let them know how you feel with your Wallet, that's more important than anything to a business. I'll get one in a couple years when you guys have finished BETA testing it for me I'm just curious. Are YOU currently Beta Testing the GPSmap 60 or the eTrex Vista HCx ?

I was hiking, probably 1.5-3 MPH. I had been hiking (and stopping for geocaches) for at least an hour when this happened. If the unit can't handle walking speed, it's defective. More than likely, your cell phone or some other magnetic source was affecting your GPS unit. Cell phones, batteries, PDAs, belt buckles, and even fasteners on jackets are sources of fairly strong magnetic fields that you don't normally think about when you're outside. You may have a multi-tool in your pocket that you forgot about. Let me give you this to think about. You're reading all this stuff about defects in design and function about these units and you are super sensitive to these issues. If you didn't have an electronic compass on your unit, but were using a magnetic compass and saw those same fluctuations, you would immediately look for the source of an unwanted magnetic field. Since your GPS unit comes equiped with different features, the first thing you think about when you see the needle deflect is "Oh god. I have a defective GPS." Consider a controlled test where you geocache for an hour in clothing that you've checked and found with no magnetic sources. Leave everything else at home, install fresh alkaline batteries and calibrate your compass after you leave your vehicle, and then proceed to the first cache. See how that works and then go to the second cache and possibly back to the first cache again, observing your unit the entire time. I think you'll see different performance. If you don't, repeat the test indoors alongside a magnetic compass and compare the needles over some period of time. I'd be willing to bet that you'll see a difference and wonder why your unit is suddenly working properly. It could very well be a faulty unit, but it could also be something that you're doing. ________________________ Editing to add: I just tested a couple things in regards to magnetic fields and the Colorado 400t. You would be amazed at how magnetic a pocket knife is (mainly from the sharpening process.) My cell phone will flip the compass needle completely around AND give me the "Hold Level" warning, so you know its a major disrupter of the magnetic fields around the GPS unit. My GPSmap 60 CSx affects the Colorado in a similar way that my cell phone does. My belt buckle (rather small for a male belt) deflects the electronic needle on my Colorado 400t until I hold it at arms length. I have a long upper torso and short arms, so your waist is probably closer to your GPS than mine is.

In "compass mode" compass on your unit shows direction in which you are heading your unit ( top of your unit - like in sight'n go). It doesn't show direction , in which you are heading (going). But - as I see - in Colorado 300 compass starts to work, when speed is about 7-8km/h. And it hasn't possibility to manage it manually , like in 60CS. Why it doesn't exist in software ? Christopher As another poster asked: What??? Once again please, but this time ... in English! (I'm really sorry, but so many posts I read in here wouldn't even give you a passing grade in a junior high English class. I realize that some may not be able to edit mistakes in grammar, but short, complete sentences would really help. I don't mean to offend. I'm trying to motivate you and others.) If you want to be understood, clear English is a must. Seriously. (Edited after I found a mistake.)

backcountry aside I don't think it's too much to ask to have the device perform basic functions, it wasn"t actually free..... This unit is barely out to the public a week and people are already giving up. I'm not sure what you mean when you say " ... it wasn't actually free." (typo removed) Mine wasn't free. Maybe you got what you paid for? What exactly did you mean? As for backlighting issues. Are there issues? The display is DESIGNED to use minimal light. The contrast on this unit is amazing. If you haven't noticed the lettering of the data fields is white with black or dark background. These units don't need brighter backlighting due to the high contrast. Can you imagine the power consumed if these units NEEDED to be brighter? There's also consideration with night vision while using your unit. I really don't need or want a brighter display on my GPS, do you? There is a poster who was comparing his eTrex Vista Hx set to 30% with the Colorado on 100%. What useful purpose does that serve? The Colorado units don't require the same level of backlighting as the eTrex units. If you set the maximum brightness the same you are wastin batter power and over lighting the screen. At night, I can see my Colorado very well. In daylight, without backlighting, the unit is clear and easily read. Personally, I don't want my GPS unit to light the trail. I don't want the additional power drain for additional backlighting when the unit clearly functions well as it is designed. There is a reduction in lighting when the batteries are low. As the batteries are depleated backlighting is adjusted to prevent premature unit shutoff. The way I see it, this is a useful feature and a perfect design. How many posters on here see this as a flaw? So far, I'm the only poster who doesn't see it as a flaw. I'm guessing that if your car was designed to limit its maximum speed to 50 mph when there's 1 gallon or less gasoline in the tank, enabling you to drive farther while using fuel more efficently, you would see this as a design flaw? "No. When I'm running out of gas I need to drive FAST. I need to get to the gas station as fast as I can so I'm not stranded." Unfortunately, this is faulty thinking. The only issue I can see with backlighting is that once you turn it on and it dims, you have to goose the display by hitting a key or rotating the wheel before either will function. There's no turning the light off and eliminating this. Maybe that's what you were talking about, but I'm the only one who has ever mentioned this (as far as I know) in this forum. That is a problem, but no one has mentioned it. What do you consider backlighting problems and why? (You can e-mail me or PM the answer if you don't want to stray from topic in this thread.)

This is absolutely false. I don't know where you got your information and I was told the same thing, but that's silly. What use would a GPS be if you couldn't immediately mark a waypoint? Marking a waypoint can't be simpler with the Colorado: Hold down on the center button of the Rockin' Roller and a waypoint is generated. You can then change the name, symbol, comment, location, elevation, and depth. You also, immediately delete the waypoint or view it on the map. Someone is really out to hurt Garmin with spreading disinformation like this.

This one is a no-brainer. I spent $300 for a GPS unit three years ago and got a black and white eTrex Legend in a package deal. Today, you can buy the GPSmap 60 CSx for $300. Do you really want to pay twice that for a Colorado, even if in 60 months is slices and butters your bread? Likewise, do you want to pay $50 - $75 less for a lesser unit? If you're serious about having a GPS unit in your hand daily and you're making a decision, the GPSmap 60 CSx is the only choice to consider.

The cap contains a small magnet that transfers the movement through the blue seal. On my movie, I've hidden a small magnet inside the pen, to make it work. Kinda funny how noone questioned how a plain pen could do the trick How funny! When I watched that movie and the pen was going toward the seal, I said "It doesn't work that way." Then I was amazed when I saw the shortcuts rotate around the display. That explains it. Why the games though?

Batteries: http://www.duracell.com/products/rechargeable.asp As for the charger, I have seen one recently at Best Buy. I just looked on the Energizer website and do not see the car charger any longer.

The mount kit will power your GPS unit, but it won't charge the unit with rechargeable NiMH batteries. I use the Energizer Car Charger that comes with four 2500 mAh rechargeable NiMH batteries, a standard power supply/cord for home use, and a cigar lighter plug/cord for use in a vehicle. I have recently purchased four Duracell 2650 mAh rechargeable NiMH batteries. These came with an instant $2 rebate that I expect is a result of the newer pre-charged NiMH batteries they have recently brought to market. I bought a set of these from Best Buy. They have less capacity and are rated at 2000 mAH but don't lose charge nearly as fast as the other, standard NiMHs do. Do you need 12 batteries to run one GPSr? Probably not a good idea. To work at maximum capacity, these batteries need to run through 10 - 15 full charge/discharge cycles before they peak. The more batteries you use, the longer it takes to cycle these to full potential. On the positive side, using 8 batteries will last twice as long and give you twice the service as using 4 batteries. I think you'd be happy with 4 pre-charged NiMHs. Since you'll need a charger, I would buy the Energizers and the car charger, simply because that charger charges more slowly and is less harmful to the batteries it charges. Speed = Heat = damage.

When I called Garmin, just over a year ago, I was told pretty much what you were: The warranty period was one year, and if I sent the unit in before that one year was up, they would refurbish the unit for free. After the one year, the cost would be approximately $175. Mine was *just* out of warranty and I didn't see the $175 as money well spent. I have been considering sending the unit it, but still see the money as an issue, especially considering that I can get a brand new unit, owners manual, etc. for about $300 today. Tell me what you know about the button pad, where you get one, what it costs, etc. please. I would be interested in doing this myself as well.

You guys really have unrealistic expectations from this company. Granted, I have purchased 7 various GPS products in the last 4 years, but I also know some of the people in the company and some of the struggles they have had. They are far from perfect. Boy's, its time you take the ugly girl home for the night or you go home alone. And as far as being a happy customer: I own a 400t and love it. Its not the promised caching tool yet, but it will get there in time. If not, and I've said this so many times, I'll take it back and get 100% of the purchase price back. Pleased, but not yet content.

DUDe! The person (Yogazoo )has been through 3 different units. He hasn't given up on Garmin, Yogazoo keeps hoping that for some strange reason they are just unlucky. From Yogazoos thread they are using quality batteries. Their has got to be something different with the last unit since, it lasted longer than the others. Now the newest unit does not work at all. Wow, and you suggest that He should just give up wanting a Colorado because it's just not for Him. that's funny. Yogazoo, I hope you have the fortitude to get another, these units apparently have issues try, ask, garmin for some form of compensation but don't give up. And what is yogazoo's time worth? How much time has he/she spent fighting this when they KNOW that the GPSmap 60 units work so well and are currently and the lowest cost of their long lives? After a certain time you have to bury the horse. Know what I mean?

I disagree. The Colorados are not perfect, but they are better than the Tritons. Colorados = beta Triton = Alpha Well, I for one have a working Colorado. Do I believe that the firmware will ever change? Of course I do. Will these upgrades improve performance and functionality? Of course they will. I get great battery performance. Even if I got less, I know how to charge batteries. I do it daily. In fact, I've charged several pairs today. Waterproofness: I'm gonna slap the next person I see in person that mentions this. Have you SEEN the seal on the GPSmap 60's? And you're worried about the Colorado? I honestly think what people are seeing is water that spilled into the battery compartments and the SD section of the outer case from being careless. I don' believe for a minute there is a design flaw. I'm still not sure why I would care about the chipset. I've read and re-read the start of this thread and scratched my head with ambiguous and unclear English. I have seen my favorite pair of 2650s lose 3% of their initial voltage in about 10 hours. I've not seen any mention of how these batteries drop their charge and how this may be affecting the effective performance of the Colorado units tested. Considering that the voltage curve is flat and the rated voltage is about 85 % of the maximum, a 3% drop is significant. I still haven't seen initial voltage readings, even though I asked about those. I doubt they are being noted. I don't mean to be a dredge in this conversation, but I don't see how anyone expects to get logical results from a illogical approach. I'm a scientist. I know what controls are. I also know what sloppy experiments look like. I'm just saying ...

It seems like you would be using rechargeable batteries if you were concerned with battery consumption. If you have an endless supply of alkaline batteries, why are you concerned at all? I have a GPSmap 60 CSx and the new Colorado 400t. I use a set of 6 NiMH rechargeable batteries (2 are the newer, pre-charged types as backup) and cycle the other four between the units and the car charger with no problems. I just got a set of new 2650 mAh Duracell Rechargeables for $10.58 at Tom Thumb (the old Safeway grocery stores). Its great that you did all these tests, but the bottom line is that you get great battery performance. - Pat

so what you're basically saying is that I wasted gobs of time writing what I wrote. Sorry. Lesson learned.

Hey! You're more than welcome. I'm glad to see new cachers with nice equipment. Or is that nice cachers with new equipment? Either one works for me! Right now, the map only zooms down to 80 feet. This was a little disorientating to me at first, but I realized that I was being silly. I rarely use the map at ground zero. Here are the strengths of this new unit: Solid satellite recepetion. This unit doesn't jump around as much as previous ones did. (It knows were you are.) Rock Solid compass readings. This compass is much more dependable than on previous units. Combine these two and searching by compass page is your best option, as long as you don't take the information too literally. Get close to ground zero. Set your GPS down, unload your gear, put on your thinking cap and start thinking like a cache hider, not a cache finder. Where would you put a cache in this area? Do you know what you're looking for? The very first line (short description) of my cache pages clearly stated what you are looking for. Do you know the terrain and difficulty ratings? Terrain tells you a lot. If you're on flat, even terrain and the rating is 2.5, the cache is up in that tree. If the terrain rating is 1.5 and there's lots of trees, its at the base of one of them. If the terrain is 1.0, its wheelchair accessable and should be an easy reach. Rechargeable NiMH batteries (at least 2500 mAh) will serve you well in this new unit. Ignore the posts about trouble with these batteries. Make sure your unit software is updated 2.30 or higher. Buy a slow charging car charger (Energizer sells a nice one) and you won't be wasting money on batteries.

Honestly, why don't you return your Colorado and order a brand spankin' new GPSmap 60CSx from gpsnow.com, get 4 Duracell Rechargeable 2650 mAh batteries, 4 Duracell Pre-Charged Rechargeable 2000 mAh batteries (for backup), and a nice (slow) car charger for these (Energizer sells an awesome kit)? Forget the Colorado. It's simply not for you. Enjoy the tried and true GPSmap 60 (and get a new one even if you have an older one -- sell that one to someone else who isn't getting the results out of their Colorado.) You'll be money and frustration ahead. - Pat

Why not take it off before you send it in? Because the glue will get funky, collect dirt, and you can never quite re-install these things to where they look good as new. I have done it in the past and dust, fuzz, hair, and bubbles all get caught up in them during the transfer. Its best just to get a new one. You realize that this invisible shield, first of all, is not necessary. It mainly protects against small scratches. If you are careless and smash the face of your GPS into a hard rock or a sharp object, the invisible shield will only protect it so much. Also, and I know you won't believe me, this shield reduces the intensity of the light from your unit. Leaving out the math: you want your display as bright as you can get it. Reducing the light even a couple of percent will cause you to run the backlight brighter. Without it, you can run the backlight at a lower setting (one "notch.") This reduces battery consumption. Also, these things aren't cheap. Wouldn't you rather spend the money on high quality rechargeable batteries? I know I would. I think your expectations on these invisible shields are too high. You've been "sold" and it costs you. I never babied either of my GPSmap 60 units. Sure, they had a few, small scratches over their lifetime, but that is nothing compared to having a piece of plastic covering an otherwise beautiful and bright screen. Those screens are made of materials that do resist scratching. You'll be amazed at how well they perform, especially when you keep your screen clean.

yogazoo, I keep seeing new attempts at determining why you have such low battery life, but here is what I am not seeing: Initial voltage (when you first insert these batteries into the unit.) Final voltage once the unit shuts down completely. Capacity of the NiMH batteries in mAh. I assume that you are using 2000 mAh batteries. Condition of these batteries. Are they brand new (on their first cycle). Are they a year old, having been through hundreds of cycles? Are the relatively new with maximum capacity (say 10 - 15 FULL cycles)? I don't know what you know about NiMH batteries, especially the older type (not pre-charged), but these batteries take as many as 10 - 15 full charge/discharge cycles before the maximum voltage at full charge is achieved. I suspect that you are using brand new, low capacity, off brand batteries as well as having the initial battery problems before upgrading to 2.30. I also suspect that your batteries (at least one of the pair) may have a problem. Have you tried using 2650 mAh Duracell Rechargeable batteries and letting them run through at least 10 full charge/discharge cycles taking note of the peak voltage right before insertion of the batteries? I used well established, peak capacity 2650 mAh and 2500 mAh Duracell Rechargeables. The typical peak voltage is 1.400 volts. As well and as you know, its good to be aware of all the features that can run down batteries in these units. I would turn WAAS off, leave GPS on, turn off the compass, turn off the auto-calibrated mode for the altimeter, and turn off the alarm clock. I would use this as the standard conditions for your initial tests. Granted, you will want to know how the unit also runs in a standard field mode: GPS with WAAS enabled and compass on and calibrated. I would leave everything else turned off. As for your 100% backlight continually on tests: I feel this is something to test after initial testing is done. I don't see that this replicates field conditions even if you are a constant night cacher. You don't need 100% backlighting all the time while caching. I've been caching for nearly three years and can't remember any time where I've been observing the compass and/or map pages constantly for more than 30 seconds at a time, much less all the time, in the dark, for 16 hours. Its just not a realistic test at this time. Sure, if you want to know how the backlight drains the batteries and want to test in a Full On mode with everything else turned off, this would be interesting information. After seeing your initial requests for other's performance, I tested my unit Full On, WAAS enabled, compass on, barometer taking data, etc. and got 8 full hours before my display was dimmed. This was nowhere near the performance you were seeing. I suspect your issues are with your batteries and not your GPS unit including the chipset installed. Have you called Garmin and asked them what they think? You can talk to the engineers. You don't have to just talk to whoever answers the phone. Do they think that the choice of chipset affects the power requirements of your unit? What did they say?

Not the Mama! I just read your first log and it looks like you're off to a great start! You should enjoy this. You're doing good looking for answers as well. You need to choose a system. Feet or meters. With feet you get miles (5280 feet.) With meters you get kilometers (1000 meters.) I assume that you are European and live in the U.S. and drive a car that indicates miles on the odometer. It's handy to think in miles to get to the general cache area. If you're used to metric units, its only natural to think in terms of meters, etc. There are different settings for your unit, but cross settings aren't available. I suggest you play with it and go with what feels best. The real bottom line while looking for a cache is approaching ground zero. Luckily, zero feet = zero meters. Problem solved! There are several ways to look for the location of the cache (ground zero) using your GPS unit. You could know the coordinates of the cache and read the coordinates of your GPS unit. I do this at times, but only for fun and a change of pace. I keep in mind that for each .001 minute of arc, there is approximately 2 meters in distance along the ground. The western distance will vary depending on your north or south position on the globe. The closer you are to the poles, the shorter this distance is. For me, in Texas, this distance is about 5 feet. When I cache in Michigan, this distance is 4 feet. Where you are located, this will be different (especially if converting to meters.) You could use your compass page of the Colorado. This is a handy feature. With the magnetic compass on, your distance to ground zero and the direction you need to go (bearing) is easily displayed on the compass page itself. Consider this a point and step method. You could also use your map page of the Colorado. A small map of the area is displayed (depending on the zoom you choose) along with the track that you have been following to get there (providing your GPS was on during your travels.) You see where you've been, where you're going, and where you need to be. This method is similar to a rat finding his way around a maze. In this case, there is no maze so it can be a little comfusing. You'll see various cachers preferring this method BUT they almost always insist that the map follow their travel. Normally, this method works. At this time, the Garmin Colorado will not zoom any closer than 80 feet. This is difficult to do under these conditions. Here is what most people do: Arrive close to the cache site - this may be 100 feet or 10 miles. They bring up the compass page, note the distance and the bearing to the cache. Holding the GPS level with the ground (simulating an actual, magnetic compass) they note the direction they need to travel and survey the area. There's a big tree straight ahead about 200 feet away. The compass page shows the cache at 215 feet and the red arrow of the compass is generally pointing ahead and slightly to one side. As you walk to the tree you'll see the numbers change and note the direction of the arrow. Thirty feet from the tree, along the same direction of travel, you see 44 feet to the cache while the red arrow is pointing ahead and to the right. At this point, some cachers will walk directly right from their previous direction of travel (not in the direction of the red arrow.) As they walk, taking note of the red arrow, they slow and eventually stop where the red arrow indicates directly to the left. Now they note the distance to the cache as 15 feet and see a fence post about 8 - 10 feet to their left and slightly behind them. Some cachers will continue to sweep left and right until the distance is as close to 0 as possible, taking note of landmarks in the immediate area. Some will go to the nearest landmark and note the distance and bearing of the cache location. At some point, depending on the units estimated accuracy, if you continue to follow the red arrow you will be chasing your tail. Here. No, here! Now its back over here. Once you get inside this circle of uncertainty, the cache could be anywhere within a certain distance. Generally, the cache should be inside a circle whose radius is the distance to the cache PLUS the accuracy of your GPS unit at the time. The closer you can get and the better the GPS accuracy, the closer you'll be to where the cache was placed. I wouldn't depend on the map page closer than 80 feet (25 meters). I wouldn't depend on the compass page closer than the GPS accuracy (lets call this 12 - 18 feet.) Also, remember that your GPS needs to be on and in clear view of the sky for several minutes before arriving at the cache site. I generally have my GPS on for 15 minutes before getting to a cache site and allow it to settle for a couple minutes at the cache site. As you get better at caching and find more and more caches, you may turn the GPS on as you're leaving the house and leave it on for the entire day of caching. If you ever turn on your GPS and see that the date and especially the time is not correct, you need to allow your GPS a clear view of the sky for at least 15 minutes before proceeding -- especially before looking for a cache. This allows the GPS to update the satellite data and can then calculate your postion more accurately.

I would convert this data into hours of use with these settings. Most won't have a feel for what 100 mA means to them, considering the average geocacher doesn' know if its MaH, mAh, maH, MAH, or any of the other combinations for milli-amp-hours or even what those units represent. What about the GPS setting? Having WAAS on enabled or disabled. What about pressure measurements? Remember that these units also record the barometric pressure over time and perform different calculations that would not be done if the unit were set differently. There is an auto-calibration mode for elevation as well. This should probably be turned off -- forcing the casual experimenter to be aware of this as a power drain. I would keep this simple, choose a couple standard backlighting settings: off, 50%, 100%, and not try to fill the chart with intermediate data. In my brother's words: Keep it simple.

After reading the last post, I too am in an industry that uses the term pre-plan or pre-planning. This involves completing a task before actual planning occurs. Some planning can happen on the fly. If I'm making a grocery list I'm just writing the list as it comes to me. If additional information needs to be gathered before the list is made, that would be considered pre-planning. "Son, go up and ask your mother if she needs any Vagasil so I can pick some up when I go to the store." In my work, I do the planning, but a different person or crew performs a simulation or pre-planning before I can do the planning. Now, as for updates pre-planned in advance (staying on topic here) that entire sentence doesn't make any gal darned sense. I think its similar to calling something a dumaflotchie, but forgetting the term dumaflotchie in mid-sentence and substituting another made up word. If it were me, and right now it is, I would call Garmin and ask for the pre-planning department for the Colorado team and ask them directly when the next Advanced Firmware Updates are due. If I were Garmin, I would plan for a a new GPSmap 60 CSx-es that has a gee-whiz case, double o-ring seals (like on the solid rocket boosters for the space shuttle), double battery bay, and a micro zoom feature that enables the user to zoom right down to 9.6" (0.8') so you can tell if you're looking for an ammo can, decon container, waterproof match container, etc. AND see exactly where that cache is hidden! When you do call Garmin, it might be worth your while to ask about the Post Pre-Planning Firmware Update sessions. These sessions are where the rubber meats the rode (oh come on -- a real geocacher won't catch either of those spelling errors) and the real planning gets planned.

That might be your problem. Try usiing your eyes instead of your schnozz (that one is for SMELLING) Anyway, that's what I meant, getting water into the battery compartment shouldn't have an impact on the function of the unit itself, but only on the function of the batteries. Maybe it's not designed that way, but it should be. Looks like you didn't answer the previous post, or recognize it. Did something happen before you posted your reply? I just check on the terminals in the battery compartment. They are clean. Very clean. But they don't appear to have epoxy filling the holes. I would think they would slightly over-fill these. One might attempt to fill these with silicone sealant, just in case. I don't see how that would hurt, as long as you waiting long enough for the sealant to harden. As far as the battery cover latch being spring loaded and not causing the case to seat into the main body of the case: That spring and roller only prevents the latch from sliding up once the latch is engaged and secure. The physical shape and size of the latch itself forces the cover to seat to the required position (or it is molded too short to seat at all) thus causing the seal around the SD slot to come in contact with and seal with the o-ring around the SD port. You can see this in the tight tolerance there is on position to get the back to close and latch properly. If you are about half way between that position and where the back is completely seated, you will see the cover slide more as the latch is engaged. That slop, while being visible and discernable to the eye, is only about 1/4 to 1/3 the width of the o-ring and well within the tolerance of the seal itself. I do see considerable dust deposited around this o-ring. Keeping it clean and lubricated is very important here.