crr003

"In the case of a virtual, there is no maintenance required, so what harm is there if the "owner" is no longer active." Hmm, if the owner's not active, how do you get the virtual find approved? Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

You should have five now Out of interest, why would you want to know who's watching? Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

You should have five now Out of interest, why would you want to know who's watching? Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

Nothing better to do at the moment..... One article I found written about ice loading issues – http://www.geomatics.ucalgary.ca/research/GPSRes/Ice.html “The 0.5 inch wet surface ice loading lead to a reduction in SNR of about 3 dB, a raw code horizontal differential position rms error increase of 1 m and a significant increase in the number of cycle slips observed. The 3 dB loss can be explained by the reflection of GPS signals at the air-ice interface in addition to attenuation of the signal transmitted through the ice. A simple model shows that most of this 3 dB loss is due to reflection.” Only a hardcore cacher is going to get 1/2" ice on his antenna! but this helps to explain though why a standing layer of water or ice is more disruptive than a transient/moving effect from rain/mist due to solid reflection rather than scattering. Wet leaves would have more of a reflective effect than dry, as mentioned in earlier posts. Another article is concerned with signal delays due to things in the atmosphere, rather than just signal attenuation – http://www.radiometrics.com/gps_delays.pdf “Dry air, water vapor, hydrometeors and other particulates (sand, dust, aerosols, and volcanic ash) in the atmosphere introduce microwave propagation delays. These delays must be properly characterized to achieve the highest accuracy in surveying and atmospheric sensing using Global Positioning System (GPS) signals. [.....] Depending upon the distribution of precipitation relative to the configuration of GPS satellites, such unmodeled delays can induce horizontal and vertical errors of several centimeters.” Errors of centimeters! Not much to worry about there then. (Assuming you can get a lock on the sats!) When you went back to the area, maybe the satellite geometry was not the same as your first trip, which might not help? What GPS/antenna are you using - it's not a Garmin V is it? Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

Nothing better to do at the moment..... One article I found written about ice loading issues – http://www.geomatics.ucalgary.ca/research/GPSRes/Ice.html “The 0.5 inch wet surface ice loading lead to a reduction in SNR of about 3 dB, a raw code horizontal differential position rms error increase of 1 m and a significant increase in the number of cycle slips observed. The 3 dB loss can be explained by the reflection of GPS signals at the air-ice interface in addition to attenuation of the signal transmitted through the ice. A simple model shows that most of this 3 dB loss is due to reflection.” Only a hardcore cacher is going to get 1/2" ice on his antenna! but this helps to explain though why a standing layer of water or ice is more disruptive than a transient/moving effect from rain/mist due to solid reflection rather than scattering. Wet leaves would have more of a reflective effect than dry, as mentioned in earlier posts. Another article is concerned with signal delays due to things in the atmosphere, rather than just signal attenuation – http://www.radiometrics.com/gps_delays.pdf “Dry air, water vapor, hydrometeors and other particulates (sand, dust, aerosols, and volcanic ash) in the atmosphere introduce microwave propagation delays. These delays must be properly characterized to achieve the highest accuracy in surveying and atmospheric sensing using Global Positioning System (GPS) signals. [.....] Depending upon the distribution of precipitation relative to the configuration of GPS satellites, such unmodeled delays can induce horizontal and vertical errors of several centimeters.” Errors of centimeters! Not much to worry about there then. (Assuming you can get a lock on the sats!) When you went back to the area, maybe the satellite geometry was not the same as your first trip, which might not help? What GPS/antenna are you using - it's not a Garmin V is it? Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

"There have been virtual caches approved in the past on the basis that "a physical cache could not be appropriately maintained" at the location, often by a user who is traveling through the area. This essentially "blocks" the area for later placement of a physical cache. Physical caches have priority, so virtual caches of this nature will usually not be approved." What would it take to be classed as unusual enough to be approved? Nil Satis Nisi Optimum [This message was edited by crr003 on October 07, 2002 at 11:16 PM.] [This message was edited by crr003 on October 08, 2002 at 01:05 AM.]

Below 10 GHz rain is reportedly of little problem for signal attenuation. (GPS is at 1.5 GHz). Neither Garmin nor Trimble web sites mention it as a cause of error. Here's a quote from a satellite company: "Therefore, transmissions at 6/4 GHz will experience insignificant attenuation, while transmissions at 14/12 GHz will experience greater attenuation. For 6/4 GHz signals to be affected would require rain storms approaching hurricane conditions." GPS frequency is lower so would be bothered even less. Also, think about this - GPS is being put forward as a system to navigate and land 'planes. I don't think this would be acceptable if rain could disturb it badly? Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

quote:Originally posted by Acceptable Risk:It's late so I stopped messing with it... Not sure if I like the idea or not but maybe with some changes? http://www.acceptable-risk.com/images/earth1.jpg http://www.acceptable-risk.com/images/geosig.jpg Contents Under Pressure... Why isn't the world centered on the USA? Good start though. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

quote:Originally posted by umc:What about this; If you don't find the cache and there were others there before you who could not find it either and its expected to be stolen or removed should it be logged as a no find or a note? If I was sure I was at the cache location and gave it a good long search, then used the clues/spoilers and still couldn't find it, I'd log a no find. If the owner subsequently said the cache was missing before the day I was there, I'd change it to a note. IMHO Not that the numbers matter Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

quote:Originally posted by umc:What about this; If you don't find the cache and there were others there before you who could not find it either and its expected to be stolen or removed should it be logged as a no find or a note? If I was sure I was at the cache location and gave it a good long search, then used the clues/spoilers and still couldn't find it, I'd log a no find. If the owner subsequently said the cache was missing before the day I was there, I'd change it to a note. IMHO Not that the numbers matter Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

If it was me, I would say it was 51.050. It's not 51.005. Good luck Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

If it was me, I would say it was 51.050. It's not 51.005. Good luck Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

I was being a little sarcastic with my post - I mentioned the 30 NO voters and the 80% of the "geocaching community".......I should have put some emoticons in it. The truth is that people will still put out vacation/non-maintained caches (and in the right place I think it's OK (IMHO)), just as people will put candy/sweets/cookies and all the other "illegal" items in caches (do a google search on geocaches and candy/sweets etc.), either because they don't know the "rules", or because they don't think they're applicable to their situation. In the end, votes don't matter. Now if anyone thought these caches were damaging enough, the approval process could be tightened up, or the cache police could blow the whistle on any exisiting vacation caches out there and get them archived. And we never get to this point, so I guess it's not that important in the overall scheme of things. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

I was being a little sarcastic with my post - I mentioned the 30 NO voters and the 80% of the "geocaching community".......I should have put some emoticons in it. The truth is that people will still put out vacation/non-maintained caches (and in the right place I think it's OK (IMHO)), just as people will put candy/sweets/cookies and all the other "illegal" items in caches (do a google search on geocaches and candy/sweets etc.), either because they don't know the "rules", or because they don't think they're applicable to their situation. In the end, votes don't matter. Now if anyone thought these caches were damaging enough, the approval process could be tightened up, or the cache police could blow the whistle on any exisiting vacation caches out there and get them archived. And we never get to this point, so I guess it's not that important in the overall scheme of things. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

quote:Originally posted by The Champions:Do you beleive it should be OK to hide a cache on vacation, knowing you will not return to maintain it for a year or two, or maybe not at all. Niall 80% of the community says NO! (Disappointing 30 votes out of 327 visits though) I guess that's the end of vacation caches. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

Say you take a bearing from point A to point B on a map and it’s 69Deg – relative to the grid lines on the map. (Don’t worry about Grid North/True North if it’s quite a small difference – look at the info on the bottom of the map (otherwise you’ll need to add/subtract to get the true north/mag north declination). Now you want to make your compass point you towards point B. From the info on the map you see the Declination is say, 12 Deg East (and the map is printed this year so don’t worry about yearly changes). 12 Deg East means the compass is already pointing 12 Deg east (right) of where you want to go if you just put the 69Deg bearing straight onto the compass you’ll really be walking at 81Deg (map brg) – so you have to reduce the bearing you put on the compass by the 12 Deg dec = 57 Deg. For West dec it’s the opposite – the compass is pointing left of where you want to go, so you need to add the dec angle to get you on the right track. Now, this I think is the normal situation – taking bearings from a map and putting them on the compass. Sometimes you need to take a magnetic bearing with your compass and transfer it back on to the map to find out where you are etc. It's the same logic as above, but in reverse – if your dec is East you need to ADD the dec angle to the mag brg to get the correct bearing on the map. East Dec: translate map brg to mag brg subtract dec, mag brg to map brg add dec West Dec: translate map brg to mag brg add dec, mag brg to map brg subtract dec Having read the thread again, this is pretty much what jolyrog said! Nil Satis Nisi Optimum [This message was edited by crr003 on October 05, 2002 at 11:06 AM.]

Say you take a bearing from point A to point B on a map and it’s 69Deg – relative to the grid lines on the map. (Don’t worry about Grid North/True North if it’s quite a small difference – look at the info on the bottom of the map (otherwise you’ll need to add/subtract to get the true north/mag north declination). Now you want to make your compass point you towards point B. From the info on the map you see the Declination is say, 12 Deg East (and the map is printed this year so don’t worry about yearly changes). 12 Deg East means the compass is already pointing 12 Deg east (right) of where you want to go if you just put the 69Deg bearing straight onto the compass you’ll really be walking at 81Deg (map brg) – so you have to reduce the bearing you put on the compass by the 12 Deg dec = 57 Deg. For West dec it’s the opposite – the compass is pointing left of where you want to go, so you need to add the dec angle to get you on the right track. Now, this I think is the normal situation – taking bearings from a map and putting them on the compass. Sometimes you need to take a magnetic bearing with your compass and transfer it back on to the map to find out where you are etc. It's the same logic as above, but in reverse – if your dec is East you need to ADD the dec angle to the mag brg to get the correct bearing on the map. East Dec: translate map brg to mag brg subtract dec, mag brg to map brg add dec West Dec: translate map brg to mag brg add dec, mag brg to map brg subtract dec Having read the thread again, this is pretty much what jolyrog said! Nil Satis Nisi Optimum [This message was edited by crr003 on October 05, 2002 at 11:06 AM.]

quote:Originally posted by Team Sand Dollar:[...]I would rather be caching but it's raining. [...] Have fun Team Sand Dollar Call yourself a hardcore non-newbie cacher? Won't even go out in the rain (I love these forums! - PS I've only got 23 finds as I don't have any within a few hundred km radius at present ) Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

quote:Originally posted by Team Sand Dollar:[...]I would rather be caching but it's raining. [...] Have fun Team Sand Dollar Call yourself a hardcore non-newbie cacher? Won't even go out in the rain (I love these forums! - PS I've only got 23 finds as I don't have any within a few hundred km radius at present ) Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

The point was you either have rules or don't (the last sentence). I'm not comparing rules - just commenting that some are more keenly discussed/held up as absolute than others. Sorry but I still don't see what problem is caused by a micro or 500ml container (for example)out in the middle of nowhere. Surely the cache hider can make a judgement on the impact to the area if the cache "goes bad". I can understand the importance of conforming to local laws, especially in the US, where it sounds like the plug could be pulled at any time on geocaching, but in other parts of the world putting a plastic box under a rock is not a big deal. But if you've read my other comments on this in the vacation threads, you'll know I approve of rules. Say the poll is in favor of no vacation caches - again my question is 'what should be done about the existing ones?' Aren't there possibly hundreds of vacation caches out there waiting to bring the game/sport into disrepute? Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

quote:Originally posted by lathama:i don't live here but i may come on holiday once the iraq crisis has died down. All those interesting caches, i want to try them all! "on holiday" and "Saudi Arabia" - now there's some words you won't hear in a sentence often. I don't think the Iraqi crisis (whatever that is) changes things too much. I do agree the caches sound very attractive though! Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

quote:Originally posted by lathama:i don't live here but i may come on holiday once the iraq crisis has died down. All those interesting caches, i want to try them all! "on holiday" and "Saudi Arabia" - now there's some words you won't hear in a sentence often. I don't think the Iraqi crisis (whatever that is) changes things too much. I do agree the caches sound very attractive though! Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

I posted this in another thread - no response. These threads follow the same layout - several people quote Rule 5. Some other people question it. The thread gets ugly or goes quiet. I'm not sure why this topic is so emotive. It's good to have a poll. The problem is with proportional representation the result will be skewed. (Unless the result is 'Yes it's totally OK', in which case the system works ) "For more on vacation caches search for the thread - "Placing a cache while on vacation". All the same comments were made (before it got ugly), with no solutions for existing vacation caches. If they're such a threat to the existence of Geocaching, why isn't someone doing something about them? In the end Rule 5 will always be quoted (verbatim). Interestingly, Rule 2 allows placing smelly things (Play-Doh) and water in caches, but check the threads for the number of people who don't accept this rule. You either have rules or you don't." Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

I posted this in another thread - no response. These threads follow the same layout - several people quote Rule 5. Some other people question it. The thread gets ugly or goes quiet. I'm not sure why this topic is so emotive. It's good to have a poll. The problem is with proportional representation the result will be skewed. (Unless the result is 'Yes it's totally OK', in which case the system works ) "For more on vacation caches search for the thread - "Placing a cache while on vacation". All the same comments were made (before it got ugly), with no solutions for existing vacation caches. If they're such a threat to the existence of Geocaching, why isn't someone doing something about them? In the end Rule 5 will always be quoted (verbatim). Interestingly, Rule 2 allows placing smelly things (Play-Doh) and water in caches, but check the threads for the number of people who don't accept this rule. You either have rules or you don't." Nil Satis Nisi Optimum

quote:Originally posted by Alan2:Hey, here's an idea. Why don't you hide the ammo box _with_ the cigars still in the ammo can. The reward for finding the cache is you get a nice cigar that you can savor after the find. No trade. You can post the cache this way to avoid the naysayers. Alan You're feeling brave Nil Satis Nisi Optimum