Team GeoBlast

The flipside to this comment is that (I think) the compass and barometric altimeter come together. While the altimeter may not be terribly useful for caching, I find the compass VERY useful. If you don't have a compass the GPS will show your direction of travel on the pointer. That's fine until you stop and want to know if you're facing the right direction for the cache. I also use the compass for "normal" navigation that has nothing to do with caching. If you've got to head out across a field in a given direction, it's nice to know you've got the direction more or less right. I originally had a 60CSX and didn't like having to calibrate the compass as often as it required me to. I found myself using my good ole magnetic compass and turning off the electronic one. I have the CS now which doesn't have the compass or barometer but the same chipset. I like it better but it just boils down to person preference I think. I find the magnetic compass to be more responsive and consistent than the electronic one...and if the unit somehow went down, I could still navigate with it. Either way, you cannot go wrong with that advanced chipset. Um, did you list the wrong unit? The Garmin Cs does have the barometer/altimeter (that's the S part of the name) but it doesn't have the same chipset as the CSx. The X versions of the 60 series use the SiRF-III chip. They also hold more map data because of the expandable memory (micro SD card up to 2G). Um, yes. I mean to say Cx. Thanks for catching that.

The flipside to this comment is that (I think) the compass and barometric altimeter come together. While the altimeter may not be terribly useful for caching, I find the compass VERY useful. If you don't have a compass the GPS will show your direction of travel on the pointer. That's fine until you stop and want to know if you're facing the right direction for the cache. I also use the compass for "normal" navigation that has nothing to do with caching. If you've got to head out across a field in a given direction, it's nice to know you've got the direction more or less right. I originally had a 60CSX and didn't like having to calibrate the compass as often as it required me to. I found myself using my good ole magnetic compass and turning off the electronic one. I have the CS now which doesn't have the compass or barometer but the same chipset. I like it better but it just boils down to person preference I think. I find the magnetic compass to be more responsive and consistent than the electronic one...and if the unit somehow went down, I could still navigate with it. Either way, you cannot go wrong with that advanced chipset.

So am I. So am I. I feel so strongly about this that at the beginning of the year I started logging my finds as notes when I had something to say and not logging anything when I am not moved to make a comment. I honestly have no idea how many finds I have and I will admit to really enjoying answering "I don't know" when someone asks me how many finds I have.

But mostly forgive those who double post.

There are some absolutely amazing people, Geocaches hunts, and incredible experiences that you will be exposed to through Geocaching. They are worth every bit of filtering effort you have to make. But understand that there will be filtering needed. My advice is to do your best to accept that there are many ways to play the game and there are some that you may decide are not for you. Soon you will have a pretty good idea how you like to play and do your best to focus your energy on enjoying it to the fullest in that way. Accept that this is your own personal taste and that it unique to you. Excluding the observation of best practices, pay as little attention as possible to the way others choose to play unless it effects you personally and you will enjoy Geocaching for a long time.

Wow.. I just had that identical problem just now. Like you there was no code visible that would have caused it but down to the character, I had this same problem. I solved very unscientifically it by deleting everything before it (even thought it did not contain code) and retyping. I tried this in IE and it seems to work. <a href="http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=d0c61232-2080-4bd2-8d79-5d201c7518c8">page in question</a>

Koric... Another hot button. Consider this* scenario in today's climate before consider hiding a cache in the proximity of a playground. *You are a young muggle mother sitting on a public park bench watching your two children play on the playground. From the parking lot you notice a car pull in drive slowly into the lot. The driver is looking in the direction of the playground. Your senses immediately go on alert and you instinctively elect to watch the situation closely. The car parks, a gray haired man with a slight bot belly and wearing a tin foil hat emerges from the car. He walks around in a circle a few times and starts moving towards the playground. He is behaving oddly and moving irregularly. His glance is alternating between a handheld device and where your children are playing. What is going to be your reaction? Do you have 911 on speed dial? PS: I just threw the tin foil hat in for effect but if you have been to any Geocaching event, you know that a wardrobe equivalent of this is not out of the question.

Not a dumb question at all. As stated, the approach of the land owner or property manager is going to vary. Your example of the National Park Service is an exception in that there is an all out ban on hiding in National Parks. You can review the guidelines to learn about others. One short cut to finding out the correct person to check with is if there is already a cache on the property somewhere. Write that hider and ask how they did it. When you do this, you very well could run into "assumed permission" where the hider has determined that it is public land and therefore okay to not have formal written permission. It is very possible that the majority of the 600k cache placements in existence fall into this category and with a higher instance of urban caches falling into this category. A very gray area in quite a few instances.

Thank-you for this comment, I really should have put a caveat in there when I issued the "trading up" warning although it was on topic. Paul..What should have proceeded that warning is that Geocaching is a GREAT activity and there's many things besides the swag you find; secret places, amazing funny stories of the hunt, great community events, ingenious cache hunts, a network of like minded individuals all over the world and so on.. However, I think to enjoy all this in the beginning, you have to enter into it with realistic expectations. Geocaching will never be about the stuff you find in a cache. If you place too much importance on some of the trading habits of other cachers, same thing.

Yeah.. what everyone else said. Cept that I really would like to know if what I am looking for is NOT at the posted coordinates when I am caching away from my computer. With all these other additions to the definitions thrown into the mix it makes knowing that a lot more complicated, if not impossible.

Hi Paul, I'm going to make you a promise. You are going feel differently about -a lot- of issues once you gain a little more experience. Let me lay the ground work for the next disappointment in store for you. For the most part, people do not "trade up" when it comes to what they will leave in a cache. I find that it is best to expect this and plan on replenishing the swag in the caches I hide. Overall, it is my experience is that if you hide good caches, folks will leave better stuff. This and of course the logs are a pretty good barometer of how much enjoyment your caches provide. Geocaching is a game based in honor. How people act when they are all alone and in a position of giving is one of the many life lessons available in this game. I can say that I have been both very pleasantly surprised and sorely disappointed on a pretty regular basis.

I wonder how hard it would be to add an additional or modified icon to indicate that the multi, letterbox, or offset was a night cache? Maybe a glowing ring around the standard icon?

I like the idea. It will be interesting to see how others respond.

For the sake of pure exercise, no. If you are going to make a blanket statement, you should be prepared to defend it. If you choose not to, I hope everyone has the good sense to take that into account when reading your posts. I'll agree with this, check my posting record and the content. You are the only poster I regularly ignore here. I actually wish I could have the 15 minutes back that I just gave you.

For the sake of pure exercise, no.

If land issues were this easy to explain, I'd probably be in favor of vacation caches. You just need to take our word for it. If it wasn't that way, do you think this thread would exist. Actually, it is that simple. If someone allows me to place an item on their property, then it is fine for that item to be there. It makes no difference whether the item is listed on a website such as GC.com and no third party is empowered to remove my personal property simply because the item is not listed to any specific website. It gets no simpler than this and you have not shown how Hawaii is unique in relation to personal property law. Given that you haven't offered anything to sjhow why Hawaii is special in this reagrd, I cannot simply 'take your word for it'. Sorry. It seems like you are trying to steer the conversation towards permission issues on public vs private land. That is another topic all together and we are talking about vacation caches in Hawaii. I am pretty much in agreement with every post in this thread except for yours, there's been a good cross section of Hawaii cachers that have come in a shared their like experiences, a lot of very good facts and opinions have been presented. That is enough for me to say that we've reached a consensus without you. Sorry.

If land issues were this easy to explain, I'd probably be in favor of vacation caches. You just need to take our word for it. If it wasn't that way, do you think this thread would exist. I never said we know everything. However, it's pretty easy to tell who the land owner is on any cache placement with a few maps I have on my computer. Since we are a very tight community and barely have 500 caches total, details travel very fast too.

...this place is reserved for Renegade Knight's event page. Sorry folks.

Man I wish you had to have an answer to this before placing a cache! Herein lies the crux of what we are trying to say in this thread. Thank-you for not understanding this. But now consider the other side of this phenom. How about if you lived on a island where this attempted weekly by someone? There was a time where very few local players lived in places like Hawaii and I can see that to expand the game that vacation caches were something that would be almost necessary. Now things have changed and there are established Geocaching communities in many of these places who are constantly immersed in the process of getting the activity accepted. It is an uphill battle in many areas but tiny steps forward are made with each cache that is placed responsibly. Then, you have to explain that what you do by accepting Geocaching you've opened the flood gates for any player in the world to travel there and hide something anywhere they think it would be "fun" with almost no oversight. Sure, they are supposed to get permission, but they never do. Yeah, it would be good if they took the time to understand a little about the land issues, but they don't. Then... after doing this, the next thing they do is board a plane and travel at least two thousand miles. Is this a game that any sane land manager would support? I am not sure how Groundspeak thinks this is an easy sell or continues to let it go.

Another example of why Hawaii is unique. Other services are basically non-existent here. Also, this cache was clearly placed on public land and because our reviewer is on top of local issues, he knew that this hypothetical scenario would never play out. I am sure this kind of thing may be a concern in other places, but never here in Hawaii. The chance of picking up a cache that needs maintenance drawing anything but applause is non-existent.Can you please flesh this out a bit more. For instance, what do you mean that 'other services are basically non-existant'? Are you taking the position that no Hawaii caches will ever be cross-listed to other public or private listing sites? Also, how do you know that my hypothetical cache was placed on public land and, even if it was, how does that affect the permission or ownership issues, in your opinion? Maybe it would be faster for you to tell me what services exist in Hawaii that have more than 10 listings. I am saying there isn't one. If you know of one, please educate me. I think that you missed the point of my post. It actually doesn't matter if the cache is listed to another public listing site. Go back and give it another read and I think you'll understand. Two questions: First, how do you know that my hypothetical cache is hidden on public land? Second, why does it matter whether the land is public or private? Permission is permission and private property is private property. Unless there are laws on the books in Hawaii that state that there is no such thing as private property and that land managers have no authority, I think you are in error. How can you possibly be familiar with my hypothetical cache? If your hypothetical cache is in Hawaii, we would know everything that I just said we would. If you are planting a hypothetical cache someplace else, you are off topic. I got an idea. I think I am going to write Groundspeak and ask them to allow hypothetical caches. That way, you'd have plenty to argue about and we wouldn't have to deal with cleaning up the mess. This is kinda what we are both looking for?

... No, I am doing my best to reach six pages of not understanding each other. I'm about as useless as a vacation cache in the middle of a lava field today.

This tells me that you not only completely missed my point but you don't understand me at all. I've probably read a thousand of your posts over the past few years (sorry I skip some of them) and it is hard for me to imagine you placing a cache that I would not like. Why? Because I know that you would take the time to educate your family on the issues you have read about here in the forums and you would respect them. .... We are talking two sides of the same coin. You trust my cache placing because you know me through the forums. Yet if someone placed that cache with even more due diligence than I'd use they would be lumped into the vacation cache catagory...if you didn't know them. I think there is a lot of truth not you thinking I don't understand you. 5 pages of the issue and I'm not really sure I can see the deeper undercurrente that either I can't understand or you (and others) are having a hard time articulating. Whoa. You painted a real life scenario where you had additional family in Hawaii and it was you placing the cache. I responded that I would have no problems with that and would probably even volunteer to maintain it. That is the only side of the coin you presented. The other scenario you just posted is another story. If someone did the due diligence and followed the guidelines to the letter, currently they would still get additional questions from our reviewer because of our history and the unique (note the PC change from "special") area in which we live. That is the way it is and you'd have a very tough time finding any local cacher who supports vacation caches in Hawaii. We become garbage collectors. What we keep saying is that we are in fact unique. We live on the most isolated land mass in the world, my island is only 44 miles long and 30 miles wide, our state is comprised of several different islands that really should be treated as different states, the recorded history and the land issues are much more complicated as our islands were inhabited several hundred years before the mainland, we have an influx of 150K fresh muggles every week on our island alone, a standard container that you would use where you live would be toast in a matter of weeks. I easily fill this page up with more reasons but if you don't get the idea now, you won't at the bottom of the page either. We have a different set of circumstances than most of the rest of the world (not just the USA) and you are right, either we aren't doing a very good job of explaining these facts to you or you aren't doing a very good job of understanding what we are trying to tell you. I'm not sure how else I can articulate this for you but while we are discussing viewpoints and positions, you've given no tangible reasons to believe that your square peg fits into our round hole. The fact that just because Groundspeak tries to do this isn't a reason nor is the fact that Billy Bob Ohyee needs a Geocache in Waikiki because that is his Geo given right. We see this mistake being made every day all around us by a multitude of service and business entities. It simply does not work, in fact it fails every single time. So.. next you say that we are being elitist by asking our own set guidelines. Let's not misunderstand each other any further, this is NOT what we are saying. For the most part, the guidelines work fine for us as they do most places. But in some cases, such as vacation caches, they don't. So while we don't advocate for our own set of rules, regional flexibility on certain issues like vacation caches makes a lot sense.

Good summary. Totally not applicable to Hawaii, but a good summary.

Thanks for the aloha Motorcycle Mama. The title of the thread is vacation caches, so that is where our situation is different than most places. Just to cite another way we are unique, if you take the finds that are recorded in one day, it is not unusual for the majority of them to be logged by visitors. From my many conversations with the reviewers, there's an unusually high percentage of the submissions that are from visitors as well. Although I am not familiar with the caches in the Bahamas or Bermuda or the Azores, I would bet that they have similar issues with vacation caches. Without checking, I would think that our visitor counts would be higher but don't quote me on that. A little off topic but another thing that makes us unique is that we do have some amazing cache hunts here. Not to say that there aren't incredible hunts everywhere but we have a very creative group of hiders here. You can browse through the links in my sig line and read the galleries and the logs if you want some examples. Here's a gallery that will getcha back here.

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