hikergps

I'll respond to this one then I'm done with the thread. Your commitment is meaningless. Thank you for judging me. The Travel Bug is not yours, it has a mission, it belongs to someone else. Current GOAL: Move me to another cache so I can meet another geocacher. Perhaps you should explain why have you decided to deliberately hinder the TB in it's mission ? Did I say that I was going to mount it over my fireplace? I am placing i in a cache of my choice. I think you fail to grasp the general parameters of the game. The people you see at events letting others log kidnapped Jeep TB's also fail to grasp the general parameters of the game, you should tell them this. You should make a point of asking them why they have chosen to deliberately hinder the TB in it's mission. That is not my job nor my responsibility. Have you ever been to an event, witnessed this activity, and told someone to stop? If you have then kudos to you! This is the responsibility of the organizer/sponsor of the event. I'm not going to step on someone's toes at their own party. I can already see a response coming so I'll add this. If someone's life,health,kids,dog whatever is in peril then yes, I'm going to be Johnny on the spot and step in. If it makes me a lesser person because I "should" do the same for a travel bug at someone else's event and I don't, I'm sorry. This is GC's problem. They allow it to happen. They are the one's who "should" fix it. Your commitment is meaningless. The next time you are at a suitable cache you should assist the TB in it's mission and drop it off. "Current GOAL: Move me to another cache so I can meet another geocacher." I have already stated that I am doing this. Does it say "Drop it in the next cache you see." Ok. Now I'm done. Good day all.

I never asked you to reveal yourself, did I? I guess you're not going to address the issue of "discovering bugs" at GC events, or anything else you don't want to answer so I will drop it. I attempted to email jeep without success. I don't feel bad about it. I've unintentionally hijacked the thread long enough. Thanks all for the debate and discussion. hikergps edit to fix grammar error not noticed the first time around

Let's draw a line. Would you do any of this with say, one of my bugs? With your permission, yes. If I attempted to contact you and you did not respond, yes. If no, what makes a jeep different? Both answers were yes so this question isn't relevant. If yes, you'd have a fight on your hands and I'd take it to the point of getting you banned. Have a nice day. Edit: needed to only add an 'd

I'm not as saavy with the forum tools so I'll address Eartha in a new post. Sorry, but some folks may need to scroll back and forth a little to get up to speed. I'll start with my response from trying to email Jeep from the GC profile page of the bug owner. It is quite lengthly, my apologies for that. It is as follows: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:48:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Mail Delivery System" <MAILER-DAEMON@signal.Groundspeak.com> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: hikergps@yahoo.com This is the Postfix program at host signal.Groundspeak.com. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster> If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The Postfix program <null@Groundspeak.com>: host barracuda.Groundspeak.com[66.150.167.155] said: 550 <null@Groundspeak.com>: Recipient address rejected: 5.1.1 Mailbox <null@Groundspeak.com> does not exist (in reply to RCPT TO command) Message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; signal.Groundspeak.com X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 7E8F91B6833 X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; hikergps@yahoo.com Arrival-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:48:56 -0700 (PDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; null@Groundspeak.com Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; host barracuda.Groundspeak.com[66.150.167.155] said: 550 <null@Groundspeak.com>: Recipient address rejected: 5.1.1 Mailbox <null@Groundspeak.com> does not exist (in reply to RCPT TO command) Forwarded Message [ Download File | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ] From: hikergps@yahoo.com To: null@Groundspeak.com Subject: [GEO] hikergps contacting Jeep4x4 from Geocaching.com Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2006 21:48:56 -0700 Plain Text Attachment [ Scan and Save to Computer | Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ] --This message was sent through http://www.geocaching.com -- Dear Jeep, I am currently in possession of yellow Jeep travel bug #1062. I have had it in my possession since February of this year, and plan on holding onto it until sometime in September of this year, where it will be placed into a cache that is at a very special location to me, with spectacular views of the Blue Mountains of Washington and Oregon. I am requesting your permission to hold the Jeep for this length of time. This request, while odd, is suggested in the geocaching.com travel bug guidelines. Thank you. hikergps [end of email] Ok. I was hoping for better response than a return to sender, but that is what I got. I'm still holding the bug for the intended cache in September. Like it or not, that is my choice to do so. I have taken the step to contact the owner. Now I'd like to re-address Eartha talking about marking TB's missing. My original question was: "Eartha, do you have any bugs, Jeep or other, that you held onto for a particular cache for the same reason? and, Were you one of the distributors of Jeep tb's from either contest?" For clarification "the same reason" was to put it in a cache of special personal significance. Eartha's answer was:"Mostly I just mark them missing. Once I moved one for a banned cacher who couldn't log it." Now do you see how I don't feel that she understood the question? Either that or I'm just too stupid to understand her response. As I see it in her response, if she is holding someone else's TB for awhile, she is marking it as missing. To answer Eartha's question: "Now I have a question for you. Just how does holding onto a travel bug for 8 months "keep it in the game"? There is a huge error in that thinking." My reasoning? I have made a commitment to put it into a cache. I am not a "bug collector". If it takes me 8 months to place it, it takes me 8 months to place it. How does taking a bug to an event, keeping sole possession of it, but allowing other people to look at it, then log it, "keep it in the game"? Is the bug changing hands? No. It is in someone's collection, but GC has decided this is an acceptable practice. If any of my caching buddies want to come take a look at the bug and log a "Discovered It" to "keep it in the game", then more power to them. If Jeep, the owner of the bug, wants to send me an email and tell me to drop the bug, I'll do it the same day into the nearest cache to my house.

I'm not sure you understood my question. Why would you mark someone else's bug missing? I understand this is real life and things happen. I still think you are dancing around the question a bit. So are you saying that I should be emailing Jeep to see if it is ok that I hold onto a YJTB from 02/06 to 09/06? If it were a regular bug, I would. But, just for kicks, I'll send an email to Jeep just to see if I get a response and "permission". You forgot to answer my 2nd question. I'm not trying to be a jerk, just curious if you were a jeep distributor. You have probably already figured out my followup question to that if you were. edit to add a copy of my email, word for word, to jeep: Dear Jeep, I am currently in possession of yellow Jeep travel bug #1062. I have had it in my possession since February of this year, and plan on holding onto it until sometime in September of this year, where it will be placed into a cache that is at a very special location to me, with spectacular views of the Blue Mountains of Washington and Oregon. I am requesting your permission to hold the Jeep for this length of time. This request, while odd, is suggested in the geocaching.com travel bug guidelines. Thank you. hikergps

If the contest was still active I wouldn't be holding it, FWIW.

I am placing the YJTB that I have had since Feb in a cache that has a fairly high difficulty/terrain rating in the hopes that it stays in play for a while, and is hopefully picked up by a fairly experienced cacher with enough scruples to place it somewhere else and not add it to a collection. It is fairly apprearrent to me that jeeps that go into the easier caches disappear from the game fairly quick. That is why I am temporarily hanging onto the YJTB that I have. Eartha, do you have any bugs, Jeep or other, that you held onto for a particular cache for the same reason? and, Were you one of the distributors of Jeep tb's from either contest?

Does one person go to the listed coordinates, then bring the cache home, then have everyone sign the log and take it back? OR Is the WHOLE group at the listed coordinates? That is the difference. edit: reworded so it didn't sound stupid

Which in itself is one of the stupidest features that I know of on GC. Can someone give me a reasonable explination why you should be able to post a found it log on an archived cache? Most of the points well taken. One of them that I don't agree with is creating a new account because you don't like your sceen name, then relogging all of your finds. Doesn't this add a found it to the cache that you've already logged once, creating inaccurate found stats for the cache itself?

Or better yet, trying to keep geocaching.com from becoming "anything goes.com"! I'm sure I'll get some flak for saying this, but it is of no one's fault but GC's own for turning a blind eye to the issues described in the 1st post of this thread. I realize that Criminal's original intent for the post was a rant. However, he isn't raising any issues that have not reared their ugly head that have the potential to cause bigger problems.

Which in itself is one of the stupidest features that I know of on GC. Can someone give me a reasonable explination why you should be able to post a found it log on an archived cache?

People like you are why it's quite likely that a different distribution method will be used for this year's contest. I'll take that as a compliment, I think.

A couple of Yahoo groups.

I have a YJTB that I have had since Feb. Is it my intention to keep it as a collector item? No. Since I haven't released it yet am I a bad person? I would hope not. I picked it up 02/06. It has a whopping 56 miles on it. When I place it this summer that will add about 250 miles to it. I am not going to place it in a 1/1 cache. I have somewhere special to me that it is going to. If you want to flame me for holding it so long, I have applied my asbestos undies. Here is a related thread in the NW forums. I'll ask the same question here that I did in the NW forums thread. I wonder how many of the jeep TB's were never released, and kept by those trusted to distribute them?

Um, this has nothing to do with Geocaching, probably should have been posted in Off-Topic.

I don't care either way. Geocachers (not all of them) have pretty much proven that there is a way around just about any guideline that there is. I have a travel bug locked up in Fort frickin' Knox. A members only travel bug jail in bum screw ME. But I don't lose any sleep over it. I'm just thrilled that I got more than 100 miles out of it for the $10 I invested into it.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. No. No. Pure Bliss.

Found: 1 out of 68, or 1.4705882352941176470588235294118%. Hidden: 0 out of 2, or 0%.

Yep, using the words several, TB's, and my collection in the same sentence is a Geofelony.

Did someone say.........Cache Cop??!!! Cache Cop: You want answers? Cache Owner: I think I'm entitled to them. Cache Cop: You want answers? Cache Owner: I want the truth! Cache Cop: You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has caches. And those caches have to be policed. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for locationless caches and you curse the pocket caches. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that urban micros, while tragic, probably saved Geocaching. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves Geocaching...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that cache patrol. You need me on that cache patrol. We use words like maintenance, permanence, saturation...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a gps and find a cache. Either way, I don't give a sat-lock what you think you're entitled to! Cache Owner: Did you order the cache archived? Cache Cop: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do. Cache Owner: Did you order the cache archived? Cache Cop: You're goll-darn-right I did!!

I have a yellow jeep that I picked up in Feb of '06 and I still have it. I don't feel guilty about still having because it is going into a cache that I have planned to visit that involves a lonnnngggg hike to get to. When I do the cache I will drop it there. It will be a nice reward for the next cacher. I wonder how many of the jeep TB's were never released, and kept by those trusted to distribute them? I'm not really into the travel coins, mostly because they are never there when I go to a cache where they are listed. If I wanted to collect coins I would be buying them, not claiming finders keepers on somebody else's property.

PM and email sent.

If anyone asks me what's in a cache, I usually tell them it looks like a dollar store puked into a bucket.

The universe collapses upon itself.

A Geko 101 because it was cheap and it works good. I don't power hunt so I don't mind the manual coord entry. I also like having just a pointer giving me straight line navigation, letting me do the figuring on how to get there instead of a mapping program giving me turn by turn directions. edit to add: I'm thinking about an upgrade to a yellow eTrex, for the bigger screen and WAAS.