ergomaniac

As I mentioned in my previous post, decide what you are going to use the mapping for and where you will use it. City Navigator has newer coverage but for rural areas of Canada the coverage can be poor. Metroguide provides more detailed info in these areas. You will also be key locked with CN so if you change GPS's or want to load up more than one you can't. Metroguide is unrestricted. Check out Garmin's site, you can see samples of each of these products and decide for yourself which will meet your needs. I've attached a sample of a rural area that I go to quite often and the CN coverage is bad. This is fairly typical of CN so check your area out carefully or you may be disappointed in CN if you buy first and check latter. http://www8.garmin.com/cartography/

Since you are in Canada, you have some interesting map options. You have to decide what you are going to be using your GPS for before you pick a mapping product. Topo Canada is great because unlike the US version it supports auto-routing. Topo Canada uses the same road network as Metroguide so no problem with roads. The difference is that Metroguide will auto-route to and address (house address) and Topo will only auto-route to a geographic feature or waypoint (like a cache). Metroguide also shows the parks better (shaded green areas) which is nice for geocaching. If you hike/backpack go for the Topo. Both Metroguide and Topo Canada are completely unlocked (no license key issues). City Navigator has the advantage of full auto-routing for all of North America so if you travel alot it's the best choice. CN is also more up to date than the other two products. The problem with CN is that it doesn't cover the rural areas of Canada very well and it's requires a license key. Check out GPScentral.ca if you are going for the Topo. They offer a really good price on the units and bundle Topo with the GPS at the time of purchase for a really good price. They also offer Metroguide "unpacked" for $60 which is a really good price. I use both Metroguide Canada and Topo Canada all the time and wouldn't be without either one of them. By the way... I recommend spending the extra $40 for the Vista. You can turn off the electronic compass if you don't like it but I bet you would be glad you bought it!

GSAK, Easy GPS or G7toWin will all bulk load GPX or LOC files to the Sportrac Color.

The serial connection was important to me when I first got my 60Cx (two years ago) because I was able to upload waypoints from Cachemate (on my PDA) to the 60Cx. Since I have 3000 caches on the PDA I thought this was great because I didn't have to type coords into the GPS (and you could only pre-load 1000 waypoints at a time on the 60Cx). You can connect the GPS to the PDA (via serial connection) and Cachemate can read the current position from the GPS. Cachemate can use the position it gets from the GPS to do a search for caches based on your current location. The list of caches that are returned from the Cachemate search can then be transferred directly to the 60Cx from Cachemate. This seemed pretty cool for awhile until Garmin fixed their POI loader (loads cache points to the media card). Now the 3000 points that I load to my PDA can also go directly onto the media card via POI Loader, so no need to use the serial connection anymore. I also used the serial connection to run Nroute on an older laptop that I had that only had a serial connection (no USB) but that's long gone. I should have mentioned... transfering points via a USB cable can't be done.

No, my 60Cx has never had this problem. The Vista Hcx screen does sometimes have this problem on the first startup but it seems to be OK when restarted.

As I mentioned before, I own both units and prefer the Vista Hcx because of size and screen brightness. You can't go wrong with either unit but each one has it's own annoying "features". All of these comments are subjective and I'm sure many will disagree but I offer them up as info that you can think about as you try to choose your new GPS. I used my 60Cx for two years but always found the rocker button a bit annoying, especially if you put a case over it. I find the stick click allows way faster input than the rocker button and you don't have to move to a separate "enter" button, you just navigate the stick and push down.... it doesn't get any simpler than that.... one button does it all! It only took me about a week to like the click stick better than the rocker button. My only complaint about the click stick is that it can (and does) get clicked while in my pack or my pocket. Since this puts down a waypoint it's annoying. The "bigger" screen on the 60Cx is a real red herring. It's supposed to be larger but the constant battery display (and other junk) along the edge of the screen takes up all of the extra screen size making the map display the same size as the Vista. The Vista has higher resolution and a brighter screen so you are kidding yourself if you think you are gaining screen size with the 60Cx (OK I admit, the compass is bigger... but not the map... the Vista actually shows more of the map than the 60Cx at the same zoom scale!). The serial connection was important to me when I first got my 60Cx because I could transfer geocaches from my PDA to the GPS. I haven't used that feature since Garmin perfected the POI loading and display (I now put 2800 caches on the card as POI's so I don't need to transfer from the PDA anymore).

Have any of you heard anything from Garmin Support regarding this issue? I logged the issue (online) as well just to add to the number of complaints regarding this problem... and am still waiting to hear from them.

The 60Csx (in my case the 60Cx) screen is normally quite dull but after almost a year of use I found mine was getting "really" dull. It got to the point where I had to tip it about 45% to see the cache icons clearly on the map screen. I compared it to a friends 60Csx and mine was quite a bit worse so I sent it in under warranty and they replaced the unit. If you can compare your screen to another similar unit you will be able to tell if it's a problem.

I own a 60Cx and bought the Vista Hcx several weeks ago to replace it (my son now uses the 60Cx). Both are good but I like the small size and bright screen of the Vista. I thought the thumb stick thingy would bug me but now I prefer it. The trip odometer isn't important to me so the problem with that hasn't been an issue even before the fix that Garmin released (ver 2.6). Tracks are important to me and the Vista does a good job with tracks although I think the 60Cx was a little better in this area. The Vista still works really well and keeps a good lock just like the 60Cx. The Vista also has a "cold weather" washed out screen issue (discussed on another thread) but a restart seems to take care of it. The screen on the Vista is so incredibly bright and clear that I don't need my glasses to see it (that can't be said for the 60Cx series!). So the Vista does have a few minor issues but I still much prefer the Vista over my 60Cx.

The 2.6 upgrade is definitely an improvement and my Vista Hcx will occasionally indicate speeds lower than 1 mph (.6, .7, .8...) but only for a second, it can't seem to maintain it (speed just goes blank). When I walk very slowly with my Map60cx it displays fairly consistant speeds anywhere from .2 mph and up. The 60cx doesn't lose the ability to record slow movement the way the Vista Hcx does. Let's hope Garmin keeps fine tuning this receiver a little more. I hope it's not just an indication that the new receiver is inferior to the Sirf receiver.

Ergo, I was not able to get a MOVE option?? Here's what I get using Mapsource version 6.13.1

It's really important to realize what's happening here when you make these comparisons. The track is a filtered representation of your movement. Now you have to keep in mind that your movement is plus/minus the accuracy of the GPS, so in fact when you stand still the current positional accuracy of your GPS will make it think you are moving.... that's what coordinate averaging is all about when you do waypoint averaging. It's trying to average the coords to make a best guess of your position. All of these coordinate changes will be factored into your odometer reading but your track is filtered based on the track method you pick (auto, time,distance). If you don't trigger a track point you won't get a distance but the distances are still piling up on your odometer because the coords are drifting all over the place. Sitting and having lunch may pile up odometer distance more than the distance you accumulate by searching a cache area. It all depends on the current positional accuracy of the GPS (how much coordinate bounce is going on). Comparing different units can be very misleading as well. My GPSMap60Cx has always put down more track points than my LegendCx and my VistaHcx when they are all set on "auto" mode for track placement. This will cause different track lengths between the units. I've tested the new 2.6 release and it looks quite a bit better. There does still seem to be a problem with some of the other readings (max speed in particular). I think the max speed problem might be related to the fact that the Vista Hcx seems to start laying down points before it has a good fix. If the initial lock is 500 ft. away and the next second you are in the correct location your apparent speed would be pretty impressive!

In Mapsource, click on the waypoint that you want to move using the selection tool (white arrow) so that the waypoint highlights and then you can right click on the hightlighted waypoint and you should get a move option at the top of the list. The route will follow the waypoint.

I think it's important for everybody to be aware of the fact that comparing track logs and odometer readings is often like comparing apples and oranges. They are not the same thing. The odometer reading keeps track of the total distance that you have moved while a track is a very general representation of your movement based on a minimum movement factor (track setup for distance, time, auto). What this means is that when you walk continuously down a trail and don't stop, your track and odometer should be very similar. If you are geocaching and you stop to find a cache, all of your wanderings around the cache site will add to your trip odometer but not necessarily add a track point. If you'd like to test this, set your track interval (in track setup) to 1 mile and then walk around your yard. The trip odometer will record distance but you will never put down more than one point for a track.... your track distance will be zero until you travel 1 mile from your start point. This is an exageration of what happens when you leave your track setup on "auto". If the GPS doesn't think that you have moved far enough or changed direction significantly it won't put down a track point. This is a good thing because we would run out of track points very quickly if points were put down continuously and you would get track point "puddles" every time we slowed down. It does this when you set the track interval to 1 second... which will probably improve your track to odometer accuracy but makes the track far to dense in my opinion.

A word of warning about the Venture and Summit... if you want auto-routing (directional prompts with street level mapping) then you should go with a Legend Hcx or Vista Hcx. The Summit is identical to the Venture except that it has the electronic compass/baraometer/altimeter added. The Venture and Summit do not auro-route.

I thought Night Parrot's avatar was a cat with a melon on it's head... I tried to do the slow walk thing tonight (figured I'd wait until dark to look less weird... don't think it worked). Walking 1 mph seems to be impossible unless you are 90 years old!! (I didn't do too well). I took a Legend Cx, GPSMap60cx and a Vista Hcx for a comparison but only had the patience to do .28 miles at what seemed like a snails pace to me. My average speed on all three GPS's was listed as the same -- 2.1 mph. That may not be slow enough to test the 2.6 upgrade but I don't think I'll ever walk slower than I walked tonight! The track logs showed that much of the time I was walking below 2.0 mph so maybe not a total loss. All three GPS's recorded the same distance on the odometer and the track logs read the same (.28 miles). Since the track log total in Mapsource was in miles, I added up all the leg distances in feet and the distances were all very close. The only reading that I'd question on any of these units was the max speed on the Vista Hcx. It listed my max speed at 4.2 mph while the other two said 3.6 mph. I very much doubt I reached 4.2 mph but I did have to dart across the street which accounts for the higher reading on my otherwise painfully slow stroll. I hope somebody has the patience to walk a mile at 1 mph to verify the fix but the idea of wasting an hour walking that slowly is too much for me to bear!

I'm not knocking the screen display, I tend to leave mine turned up on high all the time and it's fantastic! My 60cx was so dull I had to put my glasses on to see the screen clearly when it was dull outside. I don't need my glasses anymore with the Vista (I'd call that an undocumented feature!). I was just concerned that the dark looking screen (without the backlight) was a problem with my specific unit but it sounds fairly normal so thanks for the replies.

Is there a contrast setting on Vista Hcx? I've not been able to find one.

I'm finding that unless I leave the backlight on (at least a bit) I can't really see my screen very well even in moderate day light. Is this just my unit or is that normal for the new Vista Hcx? How many of you are using your Vista Hcx with the backlight off? Seems to me that this has to be a big hit on battery life. The display with the light on is incredibly good but with the light off it seems really dark and hard to see (and I haven't found a contrast adjustment). I haven't tried mine in bright sunlight yet (if the rain ever stops maybe I'll be able to give it a try).

Garmin as provided a new software release that may help fix the odometer bug. It's release 2.6 and is only available through the webupdater tool.

Setting the track point distance to .01 will change (generally shorten) the length of the track when compared to actual distances because you will only be putting down a track point every 50 feet. This is fine if you are on straight trails but if the trails wind and twist quite a bit the curves will be straightened out into 50 ft segments. Setting the track interval to "Auto" is supposed to take care of this issue by putting down more points when you are changing course and fewer points when you walk a straight line. Setting the track interval to a time (1 sec) will give you a very dense and accurate track but because it's time based you will get track point "puddling" when you stand still and this will effect your overall distance. The Odometer reading being inconsistent is a bug that Garmin is apparently working on... I don't ever use the odometer so I can't comment on how they are doing.

If price is your primary concern and you don't want to buy mapping software then you might want to look at the Etrex Venture HC. You get a basemap preloaded (which is not great) but you will get a great signal and very good color for a small price. It will be light years ahead of your old yellow Etrex. It has the high sensitivity receiver but doesn't autoroute or accept a media card (24 mb of memory built in so mapping can be added latter if you like). If you plan on buying mapping software then you might as well pay the extra $$ for the Legend Hcx, it has everything you need to keep you happy for the next few years and is probably the least expensive, full featured GPS you will find.

Whether or not it's worth $100 is really a personal issue. I've used the 60cx for two years and I've really liked it. That said, I've just ordered the Vista Hcx to replace it because I like the small size of the Etrex series. I don't really care if one is slightly more accurate than the other as long as they hold a signal long enough to get me home! If you are going to be using it for geocaching then accuracy is pretty subjective... the cache will be where the owner put it (hopefully), not where your GPS says it should be.

The specs on their website confirms that Garmin missed the boat once again with their tracks and waypoint storage... still the same as previous models. If they had moved the track storage onto the card I'd buy one but since the only thing I really like is the screen, I don't see the point (although that big screen does look really nice!).

I just noticed that the Etrex H series units no longer display the little circular globe insignia on the top front of the GPS. This circle was always described as being where the (patch) antenna was located and the unit was to be held with this insignia facing up. Does the absence of the globe symbol mean that the antenna is no longer there? I've also heard that the new H series don't need to be pointing face up to receive a good signal... does that mean that Garmin has put a different antenna in the H series as well as a new receiver or is it just that the receiver is better and it holds the signal regardless of how you hold the unit? I've always liked the Etrex series but they didn't work well on a belt clip because the GPS was facing the wrong way, so I've been using the 60 series for the past few years. If this has been fixed I'd like to know. Does anybody have any concrete info regarding this change? Speculation is OK too but I'd really like to know why the globe was dropped and is it significant?