4wheelin_fool

Seems favoritism thrives everywhere in geocaching. Something I could go on for a while about. That's a whole different topic entirely though and not sure it's a can of worms I'd like to open. I have a friend on one of the reviewer's bad sides and he can't even get a "find twenty wherigos" challenge published. There's 23 Wherigos in NJ, 41 in PA, 39 in NY, and 1 in DE. So they need to find 20 out of a total of 104 in the four closest states to qualify. Sounds like it should be appealed.

It's more likely that nobody has taken the sign behind the store seriously. Usually those signs are placed to prevent loitering, or to prevent people from stealing items stored outside. It's also completely possible that the cache was placed to use as an alibi for petty theft. Perhaps there are pallets, totes, construction materials and scrap metals stored out there. An expected reaction would be to post an explanation, or proper way in. Not a quick deletion, which seems suspicious. Aha! So the CO has in this thread gone from being considered rude (summarily deleting a log) to being considered a criminal??? I've noticed more than a few caches placed in suspicious places. Why place something in between 2 abandoned buildings, or behind a home improvement store where supplies are stored and a No Trespassing sign is present? When you find yourself going someplace that normally you would feel uncomfortable, that's when you should question the reason behind the placement. Some people believe the presence of a geocache instantly entitles them to go there. Then when the police show up, they hide behind the game. What do you think their impression of the activity will be after a few incidents like that? Most of the suspicious placed ones I've noticed were by people with few finds and unknown to most. Using the placement as a litmus test to determine how many people can go somewhere without being questioned is certainly possible. In this case an expected normal reaction would be to simply post an explanation. Cutting off communication and removing the log from the page so nobody else can see it certainly does make it seem suspicious.

It's more likely that nobody has taken the sign behind the store seriously. Usually those signs are placed to prevent loitering, or to prevent people from stealing items stored outside. It's also completely possible that the cache was placed to use as an alibi for petty theft. Perhaps there are pallets, totes, construction materials and scrap metals stored out there. An expected reaction would be to post an explanation, or proper way in. Not a quick deletion, which seems suspicious.

This! I have 2 metal and 2 plastic ammo cans. I also have 3 other good cache containers. Most of the good real estate in my area is taken. I have 9 ammo cans along with a dozen or so lock n locks in my trunk. But the more I think of it, I'll fill them with swag and return a year later to find them filled with broken toys and junk. I'll also place a 100 page logbook so that every finder can leave a full page of comments, but return and see that everyone simply just signed their nickname. I'll also hide them in a very specific way, but return and find them completely exposed. A few will be placed far in the woods, but nobody will bother to go out there, as geocachers are not really the wilderness types anymore. Could place a few coins in them to travel, but they will all mysteriously disappear... Hmmm. Guess its time to throw in the towel and walk away...the whole world has gone to hell. Maybe one could sit on their porch and yell at the kids to stay off the lawn? No, I keep doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. I also have a dozen rotten eggs and a semi automatic shotgun for those darn kids.

This! I have 2 metal and 2 plastic ammo cans. I also have 3 other good cache containers. Most of the good real estate in my area is taken. I have 9 ammo cans along with a dozen or so lock n locks in my trunk. But the more I think of it, I'll fill them with swag and return a year later to find them filled with broken toys and junk. I'll also place a 100 page logbook so that every finder can leave a full page of comments, but return and see that everyone simply just signed their nickname. I'll also hide them in a very specific way, but return and find them completely exposed. A few will be placed far in the woods, but nobody will bother to go out there, as geocachers are not really the wilderness types anymore. Could place a few coins in them to travel, but they will all mysteriously disappear... Hmmm.

Trespassing behind a store in Florida? They take it rather seriously there. This guy was arrested 62 times for trespassing while at work: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article1957716.html

It seems evident now that there is not much concern after people have accepted the archivals. The two I just posted above in Oregon should certainly have a bit more search history before taking them down. New hides may have dropped 24%, but the amount of people searching for remote hides is off much more than that. The lack of activity is presumed to be silent DNFs, but rather it only reflects the current trend of easy finds for smileys.

Good question. In the beginning the game was billed as a "high tech treasure hunt", and still is. However technology has advanced over the years. Fifteen years ago there were a lot less people who had access to the internet, and very few used handheld GPS units, so at the time it was very high tech. Today internet usage is rather common, many have GPS units, and all smartphones show maps, so is it really high tech anymore? Not as much. The QR code game has taken a noticeable bite out of the game, as many are geocachers. Also the QR code game does not allow anyone to scan a code unless they are nearby, so there are no couch potato logs. Teams can certainly all use one account, but teams leapfrogging and logging as individuals can not exist either, so "cheating" is nonexistent. Micros on this site only exist for logging, not for storing anything, so I don't know why a QR code type cannot be added as a new type, or at least added alongside of a regular logsheet. The "treasure" part is not relevant either, as swag tends to degrade, and not many people trade anymore. I suppose temporary codeword caches can exist at megaevents, but they are a lot less like caching than the high tech QR codes. If the site was traded on the stock exchange, 2000 would have been a great time to buy and 2014 would have been a great time to sell. The site is great at attracting new users, but lousy at keeping them. Here is a cache about to be archived for 1 DNF http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCY3ZG_johnny-cache and I suppose it will be done to prevent new users from being discouraged. But what about the others? New users are being turned off by an archaic logging system, while veterans are being annoyed at remote hides being archived at the slightest inclination to satisfy newbies. If you're in a bad situation, don't worry it'll change. If you're in a good situation, don't worry it'll change. ~John A. Simone, Sr. They must often change, who would be constant in happiness or wisdom. ~Confucius After you've done a thing the same way for two years, look it over carefully. After five years, look at it with suspicion. And after ten years, throw it away and start all over. ~Alfred Edward Perlman, New York Times, 3 July 1958 It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory. ~Harold Wilson The only difference between a rut and a grave is their dimensions. ~Ellen Glasgow If you want to truly understand something, try to change it. ~Kurt Lewin

I don't understand starting a forum thread rather than just cleaning up (removing) abandoned garbage. No need for public debate or discussion, if you just go ahead and do it without announcing it on the Groundspeak forum. Email the owner? Sure, that might work. Highly doubtful. If they've "moved on" in one way or another, their email address might very well be non-functioning. If an email address in not in their profile, they can't be reached. Archived, abandoned, Groundspeak-published, & cache owner hasn't logged into the site for over a year? Take it and toss it. Post a note on the cache page that the garbage has finally been dealt with. This is how geocaching gets such a bad reputation as a bunch of jerks leaving litter all over the place. B. Since it is someone else's personal property, an email is warranted. A previous listing on this site doesn't automatically turn it into community property. An email is a rather simple task, and without it, the entire premise is inappropriate and unusual. After months, in this case years, it's pretty obvious the cache's owner doesn't care about it. Email or not, it's geolitter at this point and needs to be CITOed by a more responsible cacher. In this particular case that appears to be true, although I was talking in a general sense. Even so, an email about it may trigger them to think about and ponder their litter.

Thought i read every post and even if so, may have just missed it. I didn't realize that our reviewers were instructed to do this. If so, maybe we need to write directly to headquarters to let them know of our concern. Maybe so. Here is a new one in Oregon, soon to be archived for 1 DNF. It was disabled a week after this thread was started, so there doesn't appear to be any new inclination to change. http://coord.info/GCY3ZG And another: http://coord.info/GC1JD6G

Well, it appears that the issue has been resolved already, as there is no need for something to be reviewed twice.

M I don't understand starting a forum thread rather than just cleaning up (removing) abandoned garbage. No need for public debate or discussion, if you just go ahead and do it without announcing it on the Groundspeak forum. Email the owner? Sure, that might work. Highly doubtful. If they've "moved on" in one way or another, their email address might very well be non-functioning. If an email address in not in their profile, they can't be reached. Archived, abandoned, Groundspeak-published, & cache owner hasn't logged into the site for over a year? Take it and toss it. Post a note on the cache page that the garbage has finally been dealt with. This is how geocaching gets such a bad reputation as a bunch of jerks leaving litter all over the place. B. Since it is someone else's personal property, an email is warranted. A previous listing on this site doesn't automatically turn it into community property. An email is a rather simple task, and without it, the entire premise is inappropriate and unusual. Post 2 was based on post 1 which said it was "archived long ago." From that I drew a reasonable conclusion that it was abandoned, and therefore no longer belonged to someone. The archiving process produces at least two emails and possibly three or four. Then the cache status appears in the cache listing. Another couple of years go by and the cache is found (per the OP's post). What's next - publishing notices in a newspaper?? Or discarding long-abandoned litter? Edit: And yes, if anything had the slightest hint of value, sending one more email would be good form. A number of assumptions are at work here. Post 2 assumes that it is not listed anywhere else and abandoned, and that the owner is not interested in it. You have also assumed that someone from Groundspeak archived it and not the owner. Another assumption is that the definition of "a long time ago" matches your own. A new cacher or a kid may think 3 months is a long time ago. What we know for a fact is that someone else placed it there and at one time considered it their property. Based on this, a simple email is needed before scavenging it. If it was found accidentally, then it certainly can be removed, but again, a simple email is needed afterwards. Placing an ad in the newspaper takes much more effort and is a ridiculous comparison. If someone is fearful of sending a simple email, then they may be other underlying problems that should be addressed first before worrying about what someone else left behind. I'll also mention that litter older than 50 years may be considered archeologically important and probably should not be disturbed either without permission from the property owner, according to an archaeologist.

I don't understand starting a forum thread rather than just cleaning up (removing) abandoned garbage. No need for public debate or discussion, if you just go ahead and do it without announcing it on the Groundspeak forum. Email the owner? Sure, that might work. Highly doubtful. If they've "moved on" in one way or another, their email address might very well be non-functioning. If an email address in not in their profile, they can't be reached. Archived, abandoned, Groundspeak-published, & cache owner hasn't logged into the site for over a year? Take it and toss it. Post a note on the cache page that the garbage has finally been dealt with. This is how geocaching gets such a bad reputation as a bunch of jerks leaving litter all over the place. B. Since it is someone else's personal property, an email is warranted. A previous listing on this site doesn't automatically turn it into community property. An email is a rather simple task, and without it, the entire premise is inappropriate and unusual.

Link for reference: Unarchiving a Geocache Bolding mine, to emphasize the point that it more than likely applies no matter the status of the Listing. That's written in reference to previously published geocaches. These were archived without being published. Without being published, they obviously may not meet the guidelines. Since there does not appear to be any other guidance from Groundspeak, it's probably safe to assume that's what you get, other than the following popular thread: Archived as part of site maintenance and database clean up If you were one of the unlucky ones to be caught up in the sweep, and have been sitting on Unpublished Listings (I can't remember, was it 6 months or a year?), then I think it's only fair that the Volunteer Reviewer are granted an equal amount of time to respond to such procrastinators Since they were never submitted for publication, I don't know how any reviewer would be affected by waiting on them, as they should not have any reason to be looking at them in the first place. Four of the caches were waiting on the new state regulations and not due to any type of procrastination on my part. But now they cannot be unarchived due to waiting on the new state regulations?

I'm not sure if I'm following this line of thought correctly. If you want to remove an archived cache, you simply email the owner. If they do not respond, then the container is abandoned and can be removed. It probably should be held for a few weeks in the event they are slow to respond, and a note saying that you removed it should be posted on the cache page. I also don't have any idea why starting a forum thread would be preferable over emailing the owner.

The thread is not about an overzealous reviewer either, as the practice is occurring in other places as well. This is a general discussion about something completely different. As I already mentioned, this particular reviewer appears to be doing a fine job otherwise and is only doing as instructed.

Link for reference: Unarchiving a Geocache Bolding mine, to emphasize the point that it more than likely applies no matter the status of the Listing. That's written in reference to previously published geocaches. These were archived without being published. Without being published, they obviously may not meet the guidelines.

Thanks for the replies. They don't make it easy, but I managed to figure it out. I e-mailed the reviewer and a full week later I was told that 5 of the 8 could not be unarchived. They gave the geocaches a review, despite the fact that they were not yet ready for publication, and I was told that one does not meet the guidelines due to proximity, and the others are in a state forest which will not be allowing new geocaches until the end of March. Now I am here scratching my head, because I already mentioned that they all need some kind of modification, or eventual permits. The state forest ones were created just before the moratorium, and are awaiting the permit system to be activated. I obviously cannot modify any of them if they are unpublished. All have containers in place. So exactly what are the restrictions on unarchiving unpublished caches? Does the reviewer pre-review them for proximity and such, if they are unpublished and not ready for publication?

A few months ago I did maintenance on a genuine BigBill6 cache, who passed away a few years ago. It was nice to save the original logbook from 2001, and getting a thank you from his non caching brother.

It's more than just responding with a note that's involved. It implies that the CO has to physically check on the cache before re enabling it. Every note saying "I'll check on it", is followed by another reviewer note 30 days later. Plenty of part time cachers do respond the first time around, but by the second note they often let it go.

Likely the cache was disabled mainly to the 7 DNFs, not the NM, although it is fairly common for someone to post a NM based solely on a string of DNFs without visiting. However, this thread is supposed to be about disabling after only 1 DNF. There are plenty of examples of NAs posted on caches with just 3 DNFs, let alone NMs based on many DNFs.

Well, I just noticed there's around 10 or more in NJ with EJMG in the title that Bill missed, and a few that he already found, so maybe it isn't impossible. Here's one http://coord.info/GC2QMMW And another! http://coord.info/GCZZTM

That's just rude for rudeness' sake. Clearly I am not only in it for the swag. But I guess I'm expecting too much from people, who seem to think this hobby is about littering in tupperware. Might be rude, but it's true. There are people who care only about the swag. If that's you, then there are other ways to get cheap toys. Shopping, or even buying a happy meal. At least then you don't have to look for those darn hidden containers. At least with a happy meal you get so,ethnic to eat as well. If it's truly not about the swag then it won't matter what is or is not in the cache. I personally don't trade, and I top like looking at the swag, but I don't complain when it's not what I want. After all if I'm not taking it, why should it matter, Seriously? Why are you people being so obnoxious? I am losing faith in the geocaching "community" pretty quickly. I thought this would be a way different experience but I guess I shouldn't be surprised! Did you even read what I wrote? I described my reasons for being disappointed. They are valid. I'm not interested in collecting toys. I like the experience of discovering an interesting object left with intentionality and with an aim to make it a fun discovery for anyone, not just a small child. That is a completely valid POV and it's just sad to me that this forum is populated by comments of this nature, which are so unwelcoming. Because I actually care about the container and the experience of opening it, then clearly I'm not meant for this hobby, and should go shopping? Wow. Just... wow. I don't know how anyone can defend people leaving receipts, rocks, and garbage in a cache, but those people that left that stuff are certainly out there. Not much sense in placing ammo boxes anymore with the current mindset.

The game is actually becoming popular with the obsessive compulsive. Many of these series are created by, and for, just those people. So yes, it is like Waymarking. Waymarks are often created to mark and identify every spot, whether or not anyone would have a reason to go there. Doing a power trail of clone hides over and over is a good example. Many get turned off by this, but some people love it. Some OCDers have to clear their home radius. Others have to get every D/T combo, but don't care if the rating is anywhere close to accurate. Some hide every cache back exactly the same way, by leaving a little showing. Regular people may get turned off by this, but others find their niche.

^This^. The OP may not be from the area so he's starting from scratch. But he has no idea how many cachers that are local to the area could be working on the challenge, nor what their progress levels may be. That challenge met the guidelines that were in effect when it was published, and is grandfathered in. Also, there is no shortage of great hiding spots in Western NC, so it's not like it's blocking any new placements out there. Exactly. Is the container present, in good shape, and not anywhere illegal? Those are the main reasons why geocaches get archived. This challenge requires solving puzzles which may take some time, and the owner may always create more. I don't see how anyone can be negatively affected by this.