centme37
-
Posts
91 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by centme37
-
-
........ whereas with the standard one piece cable included with the PN-XX, such recharging can be accomplished only with the PN-XX ON.
Mine must be broken. It recharges while On or Off.
I think the charging in the "off state" using the one-piece cable was changed to "capable" in the
2.4 firmware, but I'm not sure. And the 2.3 doesn't seem avail. for retrograde comparison.
Norm
My statement is a holdover from the PN-20 introduction era. It may not be true for the PN-40 due to firmware, internal hardware design or updated one piece cables that function as the two piece in that regard.
I'm not sure, guess I'll check with my -40 also.
OK, I check that out last night and this morning.
1. I ran my PN-40 down to an indicated 10% remaining.
2. Turned it OFF and left it connected to an always ON 12VDC source with a one piece, standard cable.
3. During the overnight charge attempt, the faint charging indication was not displayed.
4. Upon rebooting the remaining charge was still indicated as 10%.
5. Repeated 2. and 3. (but for a 3 hour recharge period) with a 2nd one piece cable.
6. Same result as noted in 4.
Neither of the one piece cables in my possession support charging of the Li-Ion battery pack with the PN-40 in the OFF state.
TL, how can I break my cables so they work like yours?
I turn it on after I hook it up to the system, then I turn it off. I get the faint display of an active recharge ocurring. Thought that was normal status quo.
I was under the impression that to start the charging with the unit off that one needs to press the ON button quickly. You then see faintly the wording Charging Complete then a few seconds later, the flashing Charging message occurs.
-
I like everything i read about the PN-40 but have no experience with one. I have owned many Garmin Units, and have been happy with my Colorado. I've been considering an upgrade to the PN-40 but none locally to see first hand. I've also considered an Oregon 300. My Colorado has given me no problems, and almost always taken me to the cache.
I got a PN-20 when they first came out. I also had a 60CX at that time. I have since upgraded the PN-20 to the 40 but I still keep the 60Cx. The main reason I got a DeLORME was for the maps. There is nothing like a high res aerial to navigate in a vehicle or on foot. If my Garmin had been able to use USGS 7.5 quads for my part of the country, I probably would never had bought the PN.
-
just posted this on Delorme forum:
After a couple of days, a few notes from a Garmin 60-CSx user:
Accuracy - impressive. Walking with the hi-res photos, it was putting me VERY close to my actual position, even on a sidewalk a few feet wide.
Performance in difficult conditions - in first floor of my two floor home, the Garmin outperformed it by a large margin. This makes me worry some about performance under tree cover.
Screen size - this could be real barrier for me. Especially with the raster USGS topo maps, it is not nearly as pleasurable to use, esp when compared with a Colorado.
Interface - I've had no connection problems. It is slow going, even when connected to an SD card (part of this may be that I'm reading the maps from the DVD). I don't like the size limitations where you are able to DL so few maps at a time - very tedious.
Topo 7 - some learning curve, but powerful. Runs sluggishly on Windows XP run via bootcamp on an 2 and a half year old imac.
Map space - these things are HUGE! realistically you are going to pre-plan your trips - it would be nice if it could hold a wide area (but I know with raster data there is no way around it).
Screen draw - impressive - map kept up smoothly while driving using hi-res imagery
General interface - just not as pretty as what Garmin does.
--------------
Impressive. If I had the $$$, I would keep both. Right now I may have to wait on the next iteration.
I have the PN 20 and 40 as well as the 60cx. I would agree that my 60cx is a better road router but regarding the toy like impression of the PN's, I too had that inclination but after using the PN 20 for over a year, that thought has completely disappeared. In fact I have more problems with the 60cx; first with the on/off button not always working and the scroll wheel sometimes doesn't respond to the left or right when inputting letters and numbers. The PN buttons have remained crisp and solid as well as the scrolling wheel.
One thing about road routing; a mistake that people make, afaik, is they select a route of a known set of roads and if the GPS routes them some other way then the assumption is made that somehow the device doesn't route well. However, if you route to an uknown location and you get there successfully, then the device is a great router.
My two cents worth.
-
I was looking at my "Lowrance GlobalNav 12" and saw the sys info page and it shows that the copyright date is April 8, 1998 and I am pretty sure I bought it in late 1998 so that puts it at least 9 years old now. (And it looks it too.
) So now I want to know what is the oldest GPSr you guys have. BTW my Lowrance still works great just big and heavy and loves battery's. I am also the proud owner of a Etrex legend. Johnny
Looking through my old stuff and I pulled out a Magellan GPS Trailblazer circa 8/4/1994. Put batterys in and it fired up and located just fine. I have case, manual, electrical connector, field guide and bracket. Currently have BT for my tablet pc, DeLorme PN-20, Garmin 60Cx, Magellan 315, plus a couple of DeLorme GPS loggers.
Edit: Also use Nuvi 350 for road routing.
-
I own a 60Cx and a PN-20 so I can give you some insight. I owned the 60Cx before I bought the PN-20. I purchased the PN-20 for the maps. It's all about the maps. As I said a year ago when I first got the PN-20, if I want road routing I'll take the Garmin. If I'm off road, there's no question I'll have the PN-20.
One poster said stay with Mapsource because it's better than Delorme's Topo 6 or 7. He apparantely hasn't taken the time to learn how to use Topo. It is a far more capable product.
The PN-20 will hold lock equally as well as the Garmin.
Delorme has excellent support and are working very hard to respond to all the suggestions from customers.
As Embra said, you can get the PN-20 with Topo 7, 1GB SD card and reader, plus $100 certificate for map downloads which includes color and B&W aerials, ocean charts, 7.5 min quads for $299 plus if you are really into maps you can get Xmap to register any map such as tiff's jpg's, etc. As a PN-20 user I also believe you can purchase your state's entire set of USGS quads for $49.
-
Thanks for all the quick responses. I played with the Vista some more and will give it a second chance at caching this afternoon.
I also plan to stop by Dick's Sporting Goods or Sports Authority to see if I can actually play with a PN-20. It seems like a great mapping device, and I think I'd actually like its buttons better than the eTrex buttons. I was familiar with the eTrex buttons due to the Legend, which is why I thought I'd be more comfortable with the Vista. But since they don't work exactly the same, and I have a hard time using the buttons with the holster, I'm open to a new design.
I still have a few questions on the PN-20.
1) Can you export track logs to Google Earth?
2) How is its accuracy under tree cover? I live in SE Pennsylvania, so rollings hills with lots and lots of trees.
Thanks again,
Carole
You can load PN-20 tracks into Google Earth.
I own both PN-20 and 60CX and this weekend I took both along on a snowmobile trip. The PN-20 was located in my Jacket breast pocket and the Garmin was hooked to an external antenna. The two tracks were very similar but the 60CX had (3) wayward points that distorted the track whereas the PN-20 did not have any stray or lost track points.
I realize this is a small sample but I'm convinced the PN-20 will hold lock better in varying condition.
-
Does the PN-20 use a standard usb cable, or do they have their proprietary cable you have to use?
Proprietary. (Comes with unit)
-
I wonder if they saw how much interest there was for people to make their own maps? Someone somewhere said "Hey, I think there might be a market for this!"
Here is an email response to my question about Topo maps. I since have purchased a PN-20 just to have topo quads.
Thank you for contacting Garmin.Unfortunately, the USGS has not published the whole of the US in digital, vector 1:24K detail (the scale of the 7.5' quads so commonly used)...they have for the 100K scale, though, which is the reason MapSource US TOPO (010-10215-02) uses that detail.
This is USGS detail, but it is similar to what you would see on a 30' x 60' USGS map.
The USGS does have Digital Raster Graphics over most of the States in 24K detail, which are in big part what PC based products commercial products out there have. They are largely raster based (scanned quads). We MUST have digital, vector detail for product, though. Our market is different. And the USGS does not have that all over the US, unfortunately. That’s the crux of it.
The USGS does have some 24K digital, vector detail...but not all the US in such for that scale. We put the 24K National Parks West, 24K National Parks Central and 24K National Parks East products together using some of the digital, vector detail they had.
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/topo24knp.jsp
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSourc...po24knpeast.jsp
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSourc...4knpcentral.jsp
But there are many holes in this vector detail they offer...you might have a transportation layer for a quad but not a hypsography layer, for instance, in the vector detail. We ran into this a lot just with putting the National Parks products together. To fill such holes, we put quite a few resources into it.
But these parks products just cover the specific areas noted/listed on the coverage maps with them.
If and when these are updated/republished down the way, etc. I assume new coverages will be added. But it is a pecking order on that.
Please don't take the preceding paragraph too seriously...it is personal speculation...it may pan out differently. I hope it does, really...might mean more data faster. But I expect it will be something like that at this point.
Thank you again for your interest in Garmin GPS. Have you seen our online Map Viewer? Preview the basic data in many of the MapSource products firsthand.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: centme37
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 9:56 AM
To: cartography@garmin.com
Subject: Maps
I think an extremely good selling map would be 1:24000 topo (USGS Style) maps for your popular GPSr’s. I’m surprised that you haven’t produced such a product. If you aren’t interested in expending resources to develop such a product, maybe you could contract with a 3rd party. I think a mapping product such as this would sell like crazy.
What say you?
-
-
So how many GPS units do you have at home? Do you have an extra for relatives to use, if you get them to go out looking for caches with you?
I have a Delorme PN-20 that goes in the woods and on the waters with me because it has topoquads showing and I love that. I also have a Garmin 60Cx that I use for auto-navigating and for finding needed POI's. In my emergency kit is a Magellan 315 to use should there be a need to find or report a location. It is with all my other survival gear.
I also have an older Magellan and a Pharos CF gps for my Axim 5.
I'm sure many will report multiple GPS'rs and use for a variety of reasons.
-
how is the usb load time with maps, I haven't been on the forums in a while, do the delorme have to covert the software to another format like the explorist series then upload to the unit , what is the average say for a state size conversion.
I can't believe the explorst just got software update, took 2 years though.
would you recommend this unit over the explorist?
the back seems to look thicker thought is it?
You can copy maps directly to the PN-20, connected to the USB port, to the internal 75mb memory of the an external SD card up to 2 GB. If you upload maps to an SD card, it goes much faster using a card reader for the exchange.
I would choose the PN-20 over the Explorist because of customer service and maps.
Maybe Embra will respond being an owner of the Ex 500 and the PN-20
I just got an Earthmate PN-20. Things are not going too smoothly with it so far. The Lithium-Ion battery doesn't seem to work. Ditto with the USB card reader. The USB to GPS cable worked once, but now I get an error message when I try to use it ("one of the USB devices attached to this computer has malfunctioned..."). The Lithium-Ion battery barely fits into the battery compartment: getting it in and out is a real challenge. It seems to me that there is considerable risk of damaging the battery connections when a battery is that tight. I e-mailed Delorme for tech support a few days ago but haven't gotten a reply yet.
My Li-Ion was a dud, too (and I agree about the tight fit). Several other people reported the same thing, so there must have been problems in the first batch. Interesting to hear that email is [thus-far] non-responsive, but I found that a 10 minute phone call had a good battery on the way to me pronto. The replacement has worked fine for me.
I'm uncertain about the SD reader. It may be non-functional, but it could be Windows or your system. I would try plugging the cable into a different USB port (and avoiding the use of hubs for this one). Perhaps deleting the driver in Device Manager to force a re-installation would help.
Have you tried installing anything to internal memory on the GPS? Reportedly internal memory runs a little faster than SD memory, so I decided to put my regional maps in there, while putting the large detail topo maps and ADP maps on SD memory.
I'm quite surprised to hear that you see less detail in T6 than in the Mapsource topos. There is an option in T6 to go from the default "medium" to high or low settings. At high, you should have contour lines every 10'. I'm only slightly surprised about the trails, as T6 tends to have the most complete trail data available (I think...it's much, much better than Magellan Topo3D. But even T6 is incomplete in that regard. Are you seeing the same deficiencies you described on the PC as well as the map on the GPS? I can't help but wonder if you have some missing data (although it seems unlikely).
The Delorme software interface is notoriously controversial. Adherents swear up and down that it allows for more power and flexibility than the standard Windows interface, once you get used to it. I'm not sold on that yet, although I'm getting to feel more comfortable with it.
Along with centme 37, I recommend the Delorme forum for skilled user assistance and advice. Delorme staff check in there frequently, too, although it's not an official customer support venue.
-
It seems that for the latest and greatest GPS this is supposed to be, it is sure has a lot of issues.
I can recall that when the X series came out that there were similar kinds of problems. At that time I owned an Explorist 500 and it was nice to see the Garmin's taking bashing for a change. Since then I gave my Explorist to my son and purchased a 60Cx. It's a great GPS'r that has had numerous firmware updates to deal with issues.
I have also purchased the PN-20 from Delorme for the purpose of being able to have access to aerial and topoquad data. That's the biggest failing of the 60Cx is the lack of good topo maps, unless you want to role your own.
As far as issues with the PN-20 are concerned, the reps are very responsive and early on issued an update and will soon be forthcoming with a major firmware update. I'm very impressed with their quick responses and customer service.
The PN-20 is a very robust and capable GPS'r that I use for all my 'off road' stuff, however I still use my 60Cx for auto navigation. The PN-20 will navigate but the 60Cx has more options.
-
My first impressions remain negative. I wrote DeLorme tech support for help last week. I got a reply today. The reply was a canned message that they would respond to my request for help sometime in the future. Thanks, guys, that helps a lot.
I gather I got one of the bad batteries. From what I can tell I also got a bad card reader. And I think there is something wrong with the USB-computer port to GPS connection because it works sometimes and sometimes I get an error message.
If DeLorme cares about quality you'd think they would make sure all the components they include with their GPS's are good. Or if something goes wrong unexpectedly (like a bad batch of batteries) you'd think they would notify their customers and initiate corrective action. If they didn't bother with quality control in parts like the batteries and the card reader how much did they bother with the quality of the internal parts?
I'm also realizing that if the greatest benefit of this GPS is the ability to download Aerial photos then this is going to be one expensive "toy." Just one of my local regional parks consumed over $10 in download costs (this one was covered in the cost of the GPS but it clearly wouldn't take long to eat up the entire $100 in "free downloads").
All that said I'm not quite ready to give up on this GPS. If DeLorme will do something to resolve the problems with the equipment and if I can really figure out how to use it (how to download what I want, how to switch from one view to another) I may be able to overcome my first negative first impressions. We'll see...
You'll have more luck in getting help and responses from Delorme reps if you post on the Delorme Forums.
The reps respond very quickly to those that have issues.
-
I'm new and a big hello to everyone first. I'm getting interested in this geocashing and I have my eye on this unit gps 60csx. My question is this the right unit for me as I know nothing about any of the gps units. I would like all kinds of input bad or good. I would just like to get off on the right foot. Thank you, Pete
I prefer the 60Cx. It is the same except for compass and altimeter. I've read about the difficulty with calibrating the compass so am happy with the 60Cx.
It must be less expensive as well.
-
You'll find lots of help regarding PN-20 on the DeLorme Forums. People are helpful and knowledgeable.
Note: The battery will go in with the two metal disks towards the top and the hollow portion facing down. I place the top in at an angle then force the back into place. Be sure to have the pull ribbon under the battery or you'll have a hard time removing it.
Also: there was a batch of bad batterys. Contact Delorme Support and they'll send you a new one, if you can't get yours to power up..
-
I just got an Earthmate PN-20. Things are not going too smoothly with it so far. The Lithium-Ion battery doesn't seem to work. Ditto with the USB card reader. The USB to GPS cable worked once, but now I get an error message when I try to use it ("one of the USB devices attached to this computer has malfunctioned..."). The Lithium-Ion battery barely fits into the battery compartment: getting it in and out is a real challenge. It seems to me that there is considerable risk of damaging the battery connections when a battery is that tight. I e-mailed Delorme for tech support a few days ago but haven't gotten a reply yet.
I'm attending a training with about 100 Search and Rescue people tomorrow and had planned on showing off my new "toy". I'm afraid it won't look too impressive with just the base maps it comes with. The built in base maps on the PN-20 may show you what city you are in but they don't get you much closer than that. You have to be able to down-load maps for the map part of the unit to be useful and I can't seem to do that.
I did do some side-by-side comparisons with my Garmin GPSmap76Cx to get a sense of how well the satellite receiver works. It seemed to me that the PN-20 and the 76Cx had comparable reception under tree cover. The PN-20 went down to 4 satellites for a few seconds occassionally while the 76Cx never had fewer than 7, but most of the time they had a similar lock. The 76CX usually reported it's own accuracy as being much better than the PN-20 reported, but I'd want to do my own field testing before I gave that too much importance. If they are getting the same satellites shouldn't they be equally accurate? The 76CX has satellites blinking on and off it's screen constantly whereas the PN-20 had a steadier look. I like the PN-20 screen better.
There are enough similarities between the Garmin and the Earthmate GPS's that I found the PN-20 quite easy to operate. The DeLorme TOPO USA software hasn't proven to be that easy to use but I guess it's workable.
I like the size and feel of the PN-20: it's a little bigger than a Garmin eTrex but smaller than the GPSmap60 and 76. It fits nicely into my hand and the controls are in easy thumbs reach without blocking the screen. The screen size is similar to the eTrex but the colors are nicer. If it worked as advertised it would be superior to the eTrex units since it has good satellite reception and an SD card. IF.
I was able to load one quad from the DeLorme TOPOUSA maps before the cable stopped working. That map was more detailed for city streets than the Garmin Mapsource topo maps but not detailed enough to navigate through city streets (even though I was on a street it showed the nearest street as 1/4 mile away). The "find an address" function showed the nearest address as being several miles away even though I was in an urban area.
The Topo part of the DeLorme TOPOUSA map was less detailed than a Garmin Mapsource maps of the same area. The DeLorme map didn't show trails in an area where the Mapsource map showed trails and where there are trails. The DeLorme map showed a developed road going through an area where no developed road exists. I'm really curious about that: I wonder if there was ever a road there?
I wasn't able to try out the Aerial Data Packet since the USB cable and card reader aren't working. That was the feature I most wanted to see and the reason why I bought the unit. If I can ever get help to get the unit operable I'll try downloading some maps and let y'all know what I think.
All in all, if you're thinking of buying a PN-20 you may want to wait until you see how things work out for the early buyers. I'm going to give DeLorme tech support a few more days to get back to me but if I don't hear from them soon, or if they can't get my PN-20 up and running fast, I'm sending mine back.
I'm surprised you didn't post this on the DeLorme PN-20 forum There are several DeLorme employees as well as many PN-20 owners who can provide lots of help. I've had my PN-20 since Jan. 12 and I love it and the maps.
-
Aren't you comparing Apples and Bananas?One huge thing for me is that I do a lot of tracking (mnt bike trails, hiking trails etc.) and the PN-20, as it stands right now, will hold the 10,000 track points unlike the 60CS which will only hold 500 points.Don't all the "x" Garmins allow you to save unlimited tracks to the SD card, just like the PN-20?
To be fair one should compare the PN-20 to the Venture/Legend Cx, same display, same receiver type but DeLorme has superior map technology at almost double the price for the bundled unit.
Hermit
Your statement is a little misleading in that the price of the PN-20 includes better topo software than you can buy for the Garmin and you can do door to door routing out of the box. No extra CN or Topo software to buy.
-
When I first replied at the beginning of this thread I listed the following:
Explorist 500
Magellan 315
Pharos GPS CF
Delorme LT-20
Magellan XL (Original or early productions)
Now have replaced the Explorist 500 with Delorme PN-20 and continue with the others. They all continue to function.
Edit: Also have Garmin 60Cx (How could I forget?)
-
Venture's don't come with Mapsource, how about EasyGPS?You can do that in MapsourceThanks
Hermit
How do you load maps on your GPSr, if you don't use Mapsource?
-
I will note that, as mentioned much earlier in this thread, the autorouting on the PN-20 is not so hot. The chief drawback I have noticed so far is that it takes a long time to type in an address, as there is not autosearch/type ahead aspect--you have to enter the state, then city, street number, and street name letter by letter in its entirety. If you misspell something, the device can search for a lo-o--ong time. It only routes to an address block, not a specific address (this is like MapSend DirectRoute in this regard), and it lacks POIs like restaurants, hotels, and such. Some of that might be improved by buying Street Atlas.
Delorme has acknowledged that the PN-20 is intended more as a recreational GPS than as an autorouter. I'll see it as a backup unit for my Quest for car use, but I think it will be my prime unit for hiking and caching.
Will the PN-20 street route from waypoint to waypoint like DirectRoute will?
Yes! Routes are better created ib the included software Topo USA6 then sent to GPSr.
-
I've been looking at this as the GPS to replace my MeriPlat (yes I'm willing to give up the floating compass for satellite views), and also started looking at Bushnell's 200 and soon to come out 400.
The Bushnell models have layerd not only the maps, aerials and satellite views, but also other functions of the unit such as the compass rosetta and other functions customizable by the user.
Does the Delorme allow the same layering of the interface beyond the maps?
Best way to get such info is to go to their website. You can dl the PN-20 manual and get about all the info you'd ever need.
-
The BC goverment has topigraphical maps for viewing on their web site. Can these maps be be loaded into the SD card of my Magellan 500. These maps are free and have good detail. If they can, how would i do this?
NO! Only Magellan maps can be loaded.
-
Does anyone have ay information to share on the Delorme's battery life?
Try this link.
-
Immensely!!! So much so I'm going to bug you with some specific questions, if I might.Hope this helps.
If I were to purchase Topo USA West would I be able to run my 3DTQ's in the virtual mode from my HDD? Or better yet, burn them to a DVD and run from there? I've already made backup CD's so that I'll have copies in my field case and not take my originals on the road. BTW, are these Topo USA products vector or bitmap and what contour line interval?RE: 3DTQ: I made copies of the data disks 3DTQ using Virtual CD and keep them loaded in virtual drives. One should be able to copy the data to your hard drive if space allows. You don't install the 3DTQ software, you use Topo USA to read the data, manipulate it, load it on the PN-20, etc.I'm pretty sure the answer is yes. Maybe some Delorme Topo owners can verify this. I would also suggest you visit Delorme's web site to view details of vector/raster question. They have a good forum for all their products and that is a good place to get info.
Certainly Garmin is aware of this and there is so much more money to be made from software than hardware, just ask Bill.I do own a Garmin 60Cx which I love but the software that the PN-20 can display goes far beyond what the Garmin can do. Topo USA is also the bridge to the GPSr like Mapsouce, but much more capable and powerfulDeLorme has a mapping lead, just as Garmin has a hardware lead, both are zeroing in on each others turf. A $125 DVD cost ~$1 to manufacture, whereas that 60Cx of yours cost upwards of $100 to manufacture. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure which has the better margin. So its just a matter of time before Garmin has the Topo maps like Delorme.
Many thanks
Hermit
I emailed Garmin several months ago re: updating their topo software. They didn't sound encouraging but who knows what a kittle competition will do.
Edit: TRry this non-Delorme site RE Topo USA 6.0 http://www.digital-topo-maps.com/delorme-demo.shtml
-
Just so we're on the same page, I dug out my 3DTQ disc. They're for Win 95/98 and are ©1999.Apparently, from the Delorme forums I've been following, the original 3DTQ (not v. 2.0) can be read by USA Topo 5.0 as well.I'm not sure what USA Topo is, prior to getting the Colorado 3DTQ's I purchased a vector Colorado map product from DeLorme, while much faster and the whole state on one CD, the maps were a POS. I do like the maps from 3DTQ, it just the dreadful GUI.
Any pearls of wisdom would be most appreciated.
Thanks
Hermit
My 3DTQ are same vintage as yours only for the State of ME. Topo USA 6.0 is the software that comes with the PN-20. It is DeLorme's latest updated combination of natural features found on usual topo's as well as an updated streets software for the entire USA. This is similar to nav software for the Garmin (CN7) w/o the POI's. DeLormes has POI's but only geographic features. What's nice is the USA Topo is fully routable.
If you wanted all the usual POI's I guess you'd have to buy the Street Atlas 2007. I don't see a need for that but others would.
RE: 3DTQ: I made copies of the data disks 3DTQ using Virtual CD and keep them loaded in virtual drives. One should be able to copy the data to your hard drive if space allows. You don't install the 3DTQ software, you use Topo USA to read the data, manipulate it, load it on the PN-20, etc.
Another useful feature of the Topo USA software is the ability to convert tracks into routable routes and powerful draw capabilities such as filling in unreported roads, etc.
I'm not a Delorme salesman and I do own a Garmin 60Cx which I love but the software that the PN-20 can display goes far beyond what the Garmin can do. Topo USA is also the bridge to the GPSr like Mapsouce, but much more capable and powerful
Hope this helps.
) So now I want to know what is the oldest GPSr you guys have. BTW my Lowrance still works great just big and heavy and loves battery's. I am also the proud owner of a Etrex legend. 
Garmin Vista HCx or DeLorme PN-40
in GPS technology and devices
Posted