infiniteMPG

I have a 60C but it does the same and I've done that at least a hundred times! And then have to do a find on Waymarks and get the cache found and change the icon back to an unfound GC to keep going. Good question! A real pain, I know! Especially on multi's when you're entering them in the field (literally). I have gotten into the habit of manually entered points get a - (minus sign) in front of them and then when I do a search I switch to "by name" and they're at the top of the sort list because if they're not the closest then you have to scroll to find the name you just entered (as well as remember the name you just entered). We use Autodesk Inventor at work (3D modelling) and we say the same thing about that... written by a bunch of programmers and not mechanical engineers.... ::sigh:: I wish the 60 series had the little toggle button that's on the eTreks like the Vista. Left-Left-Left.... DOWN???? NO! I pressed LEFT!

I am sure the owners appreciate that. I don't just type "Xmas", and if I type TFTH or TNLNSL it's at the end of the last paragraph of the text I typed. The cacher who entered the nice log I listed above immediately got a thank you note as this was one of a handful of long logs they entered for my caches yesterday. It made my day so I showed my appreciation. Random acts of kindness and courtiousness go a long way... even in GC.

Been there, done that... same scenario. And had one shot down too close to an airport. But after a while you hone in on what is expected in a hide and how the reviewer will perceive it so you tweak your hiding technique.

What do you call a boomerang that doesn't come back to you? Huh? We're not playing Jeopardy???? Dang... I knew that one!

You mean those paper maps we've been buying are NOT true to scale 3D topo maps of Florida? Reading the map I always thought the Suwannee River looked just like a crease!

Caladesi per chance? Watch the tide! (spoken from experience WALKING our kayaks back from the southern tip of the island thru 2 inches of water). Have a handful of paddle only cache hidden along the Upper Manatee and the Braden if you're on the other side of the bay sometime Only half tempted???? Okay, you're not totally assimilated yet... the back of my Jeep is always extra clothes, hiking stick, ponchos, camoed Lock-N-Locks, box of cache containers and camo gear (wire, Velcro, camo duct tape, etc), folder of blamk logs, various sized plastic bags, TB tags, power drill and power screw driver, swag, spare batteries, SWFWMD preserve guides, bug spray, sun screen, first aid kit (with snake bite kit and poison ivy wipes), and the usual stuff a truly assimilated cacher carries.... hehehehe

We *HAVE* to do taxes???? Dang, gotta stop listening to Wesley Snipes...

Dumb@ss..... ~Walter~ Been caching for a while now, long enough to have 236 hides. Had a few issues here and there with the local reviewer but we've always worked it out with respect for each other. I respect her because she's a volunteer and a good person who puts up with a load of cr@p from disrespectful people and all for naught.... I respect that and therefore respect her because it's people like her that make GC a sucess. A very thankless job that I wouldn't want to have. And one they would be willing to let you do if you want to see what it feels like from the other side of the cache submissions.... for no pay, no rewards and no thanks. You interested?

On a follow up note, logs only record when the log was entered, not when the cache was found (other then date). Did the FTF'er state the time of day that they found it in their log? I know the second did. Don't know if I've every had a log entered on one of my caches stating the time of day they found it. Guess they could of claimed they typed the wrong time in their log if they were questioned.... oh well, still the owner is well within their rights.

Plotting this out on Google Earth it appears the exact location of the cache is right on the western border of the park, right behind some trees, a blue roofed building and a baseball field. Is there a fence around this park? There is a house (or some dwelling) west of the cache location between the park and N. Camino de Oesto. They state the hours for the park on the webpage but they do not state the cache is actually in the park, nor do they state you have to access the cache from inside the park. If the cacher accessed the cache by skirting around the park border then they may of been placing themselves where they shouldn't be, but it doesn't change the fact they were the first to find it. Are the park hours posted at the park? If the cacher entered the park outside of the operating hours the Pima County Government clearly states : 7.010 Violations and penalties A person who violates any of the Parks Rules, adopted pursuant to A.R.S. § 11-931, et seq., is guilty of a class 2 misdemeanor pursuant to A.R.S. § 11-940. (Res. 2000-3, § 2, 2000) http://www.pima.gov/nrpr/geninfo/rules.htm#chapt7 I do agree that regardless of the opinions of anyone here or the cacher who found it, the owners has complete authority over their cache and it's logs. Well within their rights to delete it. If the cacher did violate the rules of the park then they put the cache (and geocaching in general) at risk, because if people violate the facility rules to access a cache the facilities will no longer give permission for caches, that is if this is a cache in a location that needed permission to be placed. The owner has every right to protect their cache, their cache location and the future of caching. If the finder wants to dispute it they need to take it up with the cache owner, but the hide is the owner's domain to control as they see fit. Seems like they already did that.

Not only does it make sense, but I also agree with it. And I think you'd get pretty much total agreement across the board. If a cache log came to any owner's attention as a fake, they would deal with it. Some would contact the logger to see if it was an honest mistake. Some would just delete it and let the logger prove it. But I doubt any responsible owner would just turn away from it. ACK!!! Did I just agree with a wrinkled sock? Dang... must be an eclipse or something (IMPG runs back outside to check the eclipse.... still cloudy dang-it!!!)

Actually. we're sending someone out to check you keystroke capture app we installed to validate if you actually posted that. If your post was actually a fake and the Groundspeak folks allowed it to remain online then we're going to have to archive this thread.... then again, that might not be such a bad idea regardless.... hehehehe

It does NOT say to delete bogus logs, it says to delete logs that APPEAR to be bogus. Same as saying shoot anyone that appears to be a terrorist or shoot anyone you've proven to be a terrorist.... big differenc between those two.... and the guidelines only refer to logs that APPEAR to be bogus. So if all the logs, fake or not, appear to be valid, the owner doesn't have to do a thing. Guidelines state that. Literally. You want to interpret them to something else then that's your option, but it's not what they literally say. The guidelines state what they state, and the facts are they don't say it's an owner's responsibility to delete bogus logs if they think they don't appear bogus. If you WANT them to say that then you need to contact GC and have them edit that, because it's not what they say. I am sure anyone who has it brought to their attention that a log is bogus would deal with it, but they are not mandated to.

Just want to be on the same page.... If a cacher alerts the owner that some logs exist online and not in the log book then the owner should investigate or delete them but the owner doesn't have to visit the cache and validate logs (unless it's done during routine maintenance). Right? I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but don't hold it against a cache owner if the cachers who visit their caches don't compare logs to listed logs.... it just looks like you've shifted the validation responsibilities to the cacher and not the owner. Do you check this when you find someone else's cache? Just curious....

Wouldn't someone have to physically find your cache to steal the physical log? Bad to steal from a cache, but doesn't sound like they'd have a fake log...

Anyone stating cache owners need to delete fake logs is also stating owners need to validate logs (and recent suggestions a cache be archived if they don't). Or do you have some other way to validate a log that we haven't been told????

I think every owner would be totally turned off of GC if they were told that if they didn't delete fake logs their cache would be archived. Especially without telling them HOW they're supposed to figure out if a log was fake short of visiting their hides to validate a log entry soon after the entry is made. Are you willing to do that yourself????? Harsh...? No more harsh then a colonoscopy... and sounds about as much fun, too. Bet a lot of people would be signing up to play that game! Like maybe none.

The point is they don't say that. What you said is your interpretation of the meaning of the guidelines. And everyone has the right to have their own interpretation of them, none any more or less right then any other (ain't freedom great!). Geocaching was obviously developed as a non-competitive recreational fun activity with only guidelines that leave it up to each individual player exactly how to play, how to log, and how to manage, so everyone can take their own version of "fun" away from it. My version of "fun" doesn't include visiting all my hundreds of caches on a regular basis for the sole purpose of validating if the online logs match the written ones. If your version of "fun" is, then go for it! No one will stop you or even slow you down. But as stated in the guidelines : Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity If someone wants to dictact hard inflexible rules over their personal cache domain then that's their business. But it's not the intent of geocaching.

Just for a good example, here's a log I just received a few minutes ago from a multi I own... this is a great example of a quality log Location: Florida, United States TheHobos found Animal, Mineral, Vegetable (Multi-cache) at 2/20/2008 Log Date: 2/20/2008 Had nine caches in the preserve that have been calling us for a long time and today we had the time and the energy to go for them. Although our feet just about gave out before we made it to the end. Ouch. The cache did keep us focused and made us make it to the end. Always helps to have motivation when you are in pain. [] The first stage we almost thought was missing as we found a film canister with velcro on it and teeth marks on the side. Then we realized our mistake and found the little monster and got the coords. Second stage wasn't too hard but we made it harder than it should have been. How nice to be able to read the coords so well. As we neared the final we came upon some cow patties and wondered where the cow was. Had seen some earlier and also some horse tracks. Someone has been horseback riding in there and maybe it was the headless horseman. Yikes. OBH can make his caches appear from no where sometimes. [)] Anyway we were within 50 feet of the cache when we heard loud snorts and heavy yelling. Well, it sounded like yelling. We realized there was a big Hog convention going on right at the cache sight but about 30 feet from it. The convention sounded just like what you might hear at the Democrat and Republican get together that is in the near future. Lots of Boar pushing and shoving and loud snorts and screams. They were making so much noise they didn't hear us and we saw them for about 3 minutes. They were all dressed in black and not happy with each other, but soon we let out a small noise and they looked up and eyed us rather good and then high tailed it into the brush. Must have been about12 of them and glad they didn't want to run in our direction. Found the final and it was beautiful and the entire multi was great. Thanks for a most enjoyable cache in one of our favorite places that holds many happy memories for us. Now to go home and soak our feet.

A fun thing if done right. We have a bunch of trackables out there and some problems, too. They seem to disappear a lot. Had one TB called Total Meltdown that was made from something found near the site of Hot Wheel cache, a place in the woods where a burned out car husk used to be. This was a piece of dripped molten metal from the car fire. Really cool. Really gone And our last heartbreak was an FGA (Florida Geocaching Assoc) Logwalker geocoin. Really cool coin and special to me since it is my picture on the coin But the first one we put out we placed in a TB motel cache on I-75 and it got stolen before it even got discovered. Also recently grabbed a gecko TB from a cache at Emerson Point, was still showing in the inventory in a cache in Kansas City. Trackables are cool... as long as people understand what they are and how to log them...

I tried to hijack the thread but some disguised thread marshall tackled me in the aisle Nooooo.... this thread is to discuss, over and over until the cows, pigs and ferrets come home and they're blue in the face, whether or not ALLOWING fake logs is causing a degradation to geocaching. And the cows told me asking how anyone would go about policing fake logs was still on topic.... and then they turned purple in the face and passed out

And even MORE TRUE when you own a bunch of caches and the same person found a bunch. Then you get like a dozen emails of logs from someone and every one of them is : This is an automated message from Geocaching You are receiving this email because you are the owner of this listing. Location: Florida, United States Some Cacher Name Here found One of Your Caches (Traditional Cache) at 2/19/2008 Log Date: 2/19/2008 TFTH ::YAWN::.....

Maybe if I post this by itself and it will be addressed by someone truly against allowing fake caches as the thread topic states... kind of a money where the mouth is thing.... and be sure what you suggest you're ready to start doing right now with your hides. And consider an average owner with dozens of hides who works a full time job and has a family, and they get a half dozen logged finds on each hide each week. What is your proposal of HOW people would not allow false logs? And please keep in mind owners like me who have over 200 hides that it would take me a month of vacation time to physically visit each one once. And if you make some statement like "If a log looked fake I'd check it out" be sure to give some examples of what one of these fake sounding logs would be.

Hehehehehe.... agreed. It was an example of how someone may interpret the literal meaning of the guidelines. And did you look up my cache named "#1 FAKE LOG CACHE - A regular parking lot cache in Anytown, USA"? Can't really think of what someone could post in a log that would APPEAR BOGUS unless they flat out stated that they didn't find or visit the cache.

I agree but that's not in the guidelines anywhere. People adopt that idea because they feel cheating is wrong and they choose to do that, not because the guidelines tell them to... because they don't. The statement was made that owners who interpret the guidelines are not following the guidelines and my comment was that if we are to follow the guidelines to a "T" then they need to be taken literally. And literally they do not state anywhere to delete a log for being bogus, only for appearing bogus.