hans415

For all you naysayers that just sit on the forums and have about 500 total finds and 30,000 forum post, get out and find caches. You all want to sit in judgement and create situations that may or may not ever happen. You have no idea on what the Stakes were all about. Yes we had a multitude of different caches in the run and guess what, The run is back and running. Still has some stakes with something zip tied to it. oh yes it is UV zip ties so get off your high horse on that one. Other sites do accept Stakes as a viable cache so I was not that far off. You that never did the run missed out on a fun run that pleased everyone that did it. Now it has just become more or less a ho hum regular run with more GEOLITTER per guidelines. Now it will take 24 to 48 more hours to get the run done as it will slow them all down. You can sit here and surmise all day long about it, instead of getting out and actually finding a cache. You can joke and belittle on something you do not understand instead of actually going out and finding a cache. Yes you it is you I am referring to. I have every motel and restaurant here very aware of the Cachers. Some even give a geocacher discounts when they are in town. It is and was a win win situation for everyone. The town and Newspaper has actually written about it and everyone in Yerington has heard about geocaching. Before I came here only a couple of Locals knew about geocaching now over 4000 people know something about it. I moved here to Yerington 11 months ago and there was only a handful of Geocaches in this Valley now there is 2000. All the Business owners know me by name and they all have thanked me for upping their business. I can walk into ace Hardware or tru Value Hardware and I am treated like I was a Savior for them. Yerington Inn gives a Geocacher a healthy discount if you mention you are a geocacher. Yeah I was a Bad guy that shot some happiness into a small town and help put it back on the map. So instead of sitting here on the forums and judging what you do not understand get out and find a cache.

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container. yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container yes And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it. If you are truly this concerned about the environment, you should be leaving anything in it. Especially anything that entices people to drive gas/diesel powered vehicles through the area. This has nothing to do with the environment and you know it. Why not tell us the real reason that you don't want to use proper containers. If you read above you will see that I am not concerned about the enviorment until someone calls it Geolittering with stakes and then I am qui8ck to point out that Stakes are better then plastic containers "Geolitter" is a forum term used by some to describe any type of cache that they don't approve of. I doubt it was personal. Why don't you want to use a proper container? The truth. Geesh really I feel the Bright Glare of lights shinning in my face. I see in the shadows a gunman demanding the truth or Truth serum will be used. Too funny. I use many many different types of Legal Containers. I feel strongly that Stakes should be accepted as a Viable Nano to Micro Cache. There is no Truth that you are seeking. It is just plain and simple. On a Power run a Stake makes prefect sense as I have stated before. One step out of Vehicle stamp and move on to next. I have also Stated before that our power run does not just have stakes with DNA tubes on them they consist of all sizes of cache containers. from nanos to extra extra large. I find stakes with dna tubes on them to slow down the hunt but I accept that unless we can change the rules on stakes. Why don't you want to use proper containers as described in the guidelines? I simply don't accept the fact that it so the finders can do so at a quicker pace or that you are concerned about the environment. Since you will not answer the question, I can only assume that it is because you want to place a whole bunch of geocaches but you do not want to be concerned about the maintenance of the caches. You do not want to be concerned about replacing logs or containers when they go missing so you came up with this idea of a self cleaning, biodegradable non-container that you wish to call a geocache. It's a great idea, but it's not a geocache and it shouldn't be listed on geocaching.com. If you want to re-invent the game, you should probably do what those folks did with the QR thingies. Create your own website. Stake Caching. If you can pull it off, there could be stake power trails all over the world and the rest of us could benefit by all the stakes laying around when the Zombie Apocalypse happens. you are dead wrong but it does not matter think how you want to think

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container. yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container yes And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it. If you are truly this concerned about the environment, you should be leaving anything in it. Especially anything that entices people to drive gas/diesel powered vehicles through the area. This has nothing to do with the environment and you know it. Why not tell us the real reason that you don't want to use proper containers. If you read above you will see that I am not concerned about the enviorment until someone calls it Geolittering with stakes and then I am qui8ck to point out that Stakes are better then plastic containers "Geolitter" is a forum term used by some to describe any type of cache that they don't approve of. I doubt it was personal. Why don't you want to use a proper container? The truth. Geesh really I feel the Bright Glare of lights shinning in my face. I see in the shadows a gunman demanding the truth or Truth serum will be used. Too funny. I use many many different types of Legal Containers. I feel strongly that Stakes should be accepted as a Viable Nano to Micro Cache. There is no Truth that you are seeking. It is just plain and simple. On a Power run a Stake makes prefect sense as I have stated before. One step out of Vehicle stamp and move on to next. I have also Stated before that our power run does not just have stakes with DNA tubes on them they consist of all sizes of cache containers. from nanos to extra extra large. I find stakes with dna tubes on them to slow down the hunt but I accept that unless we can change the rules on stakes.

sign a log and it is not considered a cache. Signing something is what is required that people can sign and therefore the Stake becomes the log. Paper is made from logs. Logs are the first before paper. If you have nanos or a micro that only has a small piece of paper in it then there is NO difference between them and a stake. They both have places to sign. If you have a small to extra large container that holds things then yes it is not the same as a Stake.

My stakes have been fixed to include on or next or in the stakes but I still believe that plain stakes are a viable Cache just as much as a 35 mm plastic container. Just for the record

Huh? what did this have to do with anything? I think it had to do with what this thread was originally talking about, until you turned it into a discussion about your stake caches. LoneR may have thought you were the cache owner referenced in one of the first 63 posts, even though you are not. You didn't start this thread, you replied to it -- it wasn't originally about you, and therefore not all the replies may be about you, either. (This reply is about you, by the way, just to clear things up.) Actually, that was where the thread had drifted to. The OP was about stakes that you sign in reference to a series in Arizona that copied Hans' series in Nevada. It's actually quite comical watching Hans try to defend his series. It reminds me of a lot of TV and radio ads that will hopefully end at 8PM tonight. I am guessing that you would not defend something or someone you believe in?

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container. yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container yes And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it. If you are truly this concerned about the environment, you should be leaving anything in it. Especially anything that entices people to drive gas/diesel powered vehicles through the area. This has nothing to do with the environment and you know it. Why not tell us the real reason that you don't want to use proper containers. If you read above you will see that I am not concerned about the enviorment until someone calls it Geolittering with stakes and then I am qui8ck to point out that Stakes are better then plastic containers

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change. Why is that so hard for you to understand. Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed I hear you saying that things don't change unless you talk about it, and I understand that. I even agree with you on that. I have been in agreement with you on that the whole time. You don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying. Yes, it is good to talk about things like this. If the guidelines change I might hide one even. Who knows. What I'm trying to say, and you keep ignoring or avoiding it, is that UNTIL the guidelines change stakes are not proper caches. It's that simple. Please don't tell that I'm not willing to talk about this change or that I don't understand about rules changes. When you do you it just prove that you are not listening and that this is not a disscusion, but rather one person holding their breath and throwing a fit because they don't like the way things are now. I am avoiding it because it is a mote question and answer. How do we get the Guidelines changed? we talk about it? we discuss the merits of it. We get noticed by the rule Changers. We all know what you are saying that YES They are illegal now but it does not mean we have to keep mum until someone magically out of the blue, changes the rules. Changing rules is usually an uphill battle and we have to start somewhere and what better place to start then on Groundspeaks Forums. Best of luck, but please understand that you are never going to see this happen. Your efforts might be better utilized creating actual geocache containers. Groundspeak has spent the last six years getting out of the "container-less" cache business. With the exception of Events and Earthcaches, a cache has to have a container and the container has to contain a log. The Chances of Groundspeak doing a complete turn around because someone wants to leave random objects across the landscape and call them caches, and others want to drive around finding them and pretending that they are finding caches, is slim to none. I will take the slim chance as all rules have been known to change

Staple a baggie with a log in to the back of your stake and you're good. It would be lamest cache of all time, but you would be technically meeting the guidelines. No one is asking you to not be creative and no one is asking you not to try to get the guidelines changed, they are just asking you follow the current guidelines. If I want to get the speed limit raised I go through the proper process. I don't simply drive fast until someone notices and then hope they'll raise the limit instead of giving me a ticket. As far as 100s of stakes in the desert. If I drove out there and found that the CO couldn't even bother to give me a carpy filmcan with something in it that I could sign, I'd be pissed. I'm a geocacher. I find and log geocaches. A wooden stake stuck in a bush is not a geocache. It's something that you can attach a geocache to, but it is not a geocache. Only thing I have to add so a 35 mm is better then just a stake? does that not actually and technically become the same thing? you are logging a piece of paper versus wood but that is all you can do. I have more then just stakes. Mentioned earlier what types we have out here from ammo cans to Telephones to bubble gum machines to extra extra Large Missile cans, to other things it isnt just a wooden stake with a dna tube run.

I did. I also read where the discussion started to talk about GCRM, and that post didn't talk about your caches. I'll past it in here: If you notice, that ain't your cache that's linked. So apparently you're not the only one who has stake caches out there. That's all I had for you. So, feel free to resume hijacking the thread into a personal conversation between you and anyone else who types here. edit: sp Interesting. Thanks for clearing that up hzoi. Yes, I did think the Hans' stakes were the DIP power trail stakes. thing is hzoi the original was about Stakes so when they started off on GCRM's they then Hijacked the thread

Here Hzoi Shadow ace was the first one to start this thread. There is no link to anything on his post. He/she was asking about Survey Stakes on the ground in the original post. I started survey Stakes in May of this year. He started the Post in October this year as our power run was gaining popularity. We now have had people from all corners of the world come and do the power run. So maybe just Maybe it was about our power run. Posted 29 October 2012 - 09:32 AM Recently we have started seeing more caches that are simply a sandwich bad and a piece of paper or even more of a lack of container are the new concept of placing a wooden stake on the ground. The stake IS the cache and the logbook. Do cachers no longer require containers? I understand the whole micro explosion and I am not trying to bring up size.. I am asking if : 1) plastic bag + paper = geocache 2) survey stake on the ground = geocache Or are we simply too old school and expect to much? -=Tucson, Arizona "Nil Sine Numine", "Nothing without the Diety"

I did. I also read where the discussion started to talk about GCRM, and that post didn't talk about your caches. I'll past it in here: Geesh really now I am being confused as a hijacker. It is about Stakes in the ground and yes I started them on a 1800+ power run and was made to change them. Yes it is Talking about Yerington Nevada and so on and so forth. No matter how you want to look at it they were and was talking about our power run. You are just proving my earlier point on Common sense. If you notice, that ain't your cache that's linkedink. So apparently you're not the only one who has stake caches out there. That's all I had for you. So, feel free to resume hijacking the thread into a personal conversation between you and anyone else who types here.

Huh? what did this have to do with anything? Maybe you should read the very first one then or here I will paste it on here. hmm stakes in the ground Recently we have started seeing more caches that are simply a sandwich bad and a piece of paper or even more of a lack of container are the new concept of placing a wooden stake on the ground. The stake IS the cache and the logbook. Do cachers no longer require containers? I understand the whole micro explosion and I am not trying to bring up size.. I am asking if : 1) plastic bag + paper = geocache 2) survey stake on the ground = geocache Or are we simply too old school and expect to much? I think it had to do with what this thread was originally talking about, until you turned it into a discussion about your stake caches. LoneR may have thought you were the cache owner referenced in one of the first 63 posts, even though you are not. You didn't start this thread, you replied to it -- it wasn't originally about you, and therefore not all the replies may be about you, either. (This reply is about you, by the way, just to clear things up.)

Huh? what did this have to do with anything?

In the Desert a stake is the only thing out there or maybe a rusted can I am pretty sure no one will mind if a can or stake is signed. Agreed. But if you allowed it there, you know some fool would put up a 1x12 in some city park and have cachers sign that. Then some cacher would come sign it with spray paint. Then after the city maintenance crew removes the offending board, some other cacher would sigh the bench nearby just to get the smiley, and more than likely with spray paint as well. (Pesonally I see nothing wrong with it out in the desert where only cachers or few hikers may ever see it, but you know it wouldn't stay there.) Yes if stakes are allowed then they would crop up anywhere, But that is the nature of the beast. I have seen signatures on just about anything when people cannot find the cache itself. It happens already everday without stakes. You cannot change people and what they do. they will do it anyway no matter what. You are always gonna have that odd cacher that will try and ruin it all anyway And if it were allowed it would be even worse because there would be no way to stop it. Instead of Micro Spew you would have Stake Spew, followed by graffiti spew. I don't believe it would get any worse they you may believe it would be.

In the Desert a stake is the only thing out there or maybe a rusted can I am pretty sure no one will mind if a can or stake is signed. Agreed. But if you allowed it there, you know some fool would put up a 1x12 in some city park and have cachers sign that. Then some cacher would come sign it with spray paint. Then after the city maintenance crew removes the offending board, some other cacher would sigh the bench nearby just to get the smiley, and more than likely with spray paint as well. (Pesonally I see nothing wrong with it out in the desert where only cachers or few hikers may ever see it, but you know it wouldn't stay there.) Yes if stakes are allowed then they would crop up anywhere, But that is the nature of the beast. I have seen signatures on just about anything when people cannot find the cache itself. It happens already everday without stakes. You cannot change people and what they do. they will do it anyway no matter what. You are always gonna have that odd cacher that will try and ruin it all anyway

I am still waiting to see the rule change on magnetic strips to.

Far from being prefect and every day the world creates more Idiots then common sense ones.

In the Desert a stake is the only thing out there or maybe a rusted can I am pretty sure no one will mind if a can or stake is signed.

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container. yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container yes And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it. I'm not saying the baggie makes it better. You ask a question about the guidelines and I answered it. I understand. I was not badgering you I was simply stating the facts for anyone and everyone that will read this

here is Pic of the parking. http://www.monocounty.ca.gov/sites/default/files/fileattachments/rpac_-_bridgeport_valley_rpac/page/833/bridgeport_us_395_striping_conceptual_plan.2012-09-19.pdf

If you think I am bsing you about the parking here is a link to it http://www.monocounty.ca.gov/sites/default/files/fileattachments/rpac_-_bridgeport_valley_rpac/page/833/bprpac_msr-striping_09.20.12.pdf Really this is been done only a week or two ago. Back in Parking lmao

I was in Bridgeport California on a Sunday drive, scouting new Cache locations and availability of hooking into our already laid out run. When I go into the Downtown area I figured I would stop and just look around a bit. Trouble with that idea was this. They had just painted angle parking lines. Nice and bright white strips for angle parking no problem right? Wait a min. the angles on our side are backwards and the ones across the street were also backwards. Now this is a wide downtown Highway 395 going through town. A well traveled highway. I stopped and looked around sorta confused on how we are suppose to park, I wondered if we needed to park across the street or what. But this did not make sense either. I finally pulled into a spot by pulling out then pointing my car into it. Then I knew I was parked wrong for backing back out into the proper lane. I went into the Tourist store and started asking the owner about the parking. This is what I was told, "Backing into Traffic from a Parking space is illegal in California". I said really 49 states have angle parking and everyone backs out into traffic from it and California that is broke is spending their much needed money on stupid laws. He says you have to back into the parking space. I said Isnt that the same thing? you are backing up in Traffic to get parked. What Changes it, he brightly said Nothing. I said I have driven truck for 33 years and I know how to back, but does California realize that 95% of their Citizens cannot back properly in a space? He said he figures the law will be changed back and in 6 months the lines will be sandblasted back out and repainted the right way. This is what we are facing today also in Geocaching. Rules are made rules are changed rules are changed back. Sometimes the rules make prefect common sense and sometimes they make no sense at all. Yet someone gets what they think is a bright idea and changes rules and then realizes wait that idea was not as bright as I thought. Stakes make prefect sense and are environmentally friendly. No I am not a tree hugger at all. I am far from it and have abused it as much as everyone else. Mother earth will love stakes over Man Made Chemically induced Plastic containers and Steel ammo boxes etc. Stakes can be signed, stamped and self maintained as when it rains Walla you have clean Log. Stakes will last as long as the Grounspeak rules say they have to.

Utility plates usually have the log in a baggie, which seems to count as a container. Not a good one, but a container. yes some have baggies some do not seen them 4 different ways, but if I put a baggie stapled on a stake then it would become a legit stake container yes And do you see that the Baggie actually changes nothing? A baggie on top of the stake changes nothing as 99% of cachers will still sign or stamp the stake, Power cachers will never take the time to open and sign the log inside. Therefore we are putting needless plastic baggies and littering the earth again with Plastic and chemicals. Do you see how stupid that is. Oh wait that reminds me of something. I will post it.

Nobody said you could ask for the guidelines to be changed. They just said don't break the guidelines. Wait until the change. Why is that so hard for you to understand. Totem what is it you don't understand that rules never change unless someone brings it up or does something to get them changed I hear you saying that things don't change unless you talk about it, and I understand that. I even agree with you on that. I have been in agreement with you on that the whole time. You don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying. Yes, it is good to talk about things like this. If the guidelines change I might hide one even. Who knows. What I'm trying to say, and you keep ignoring or avoiding it, is that UNTIL the guidelines change stakes are not proper caches. It's that simple. Please don't tell that I'm not willing to talk about this change or that I don't understand about rules changes. When you do you it just prove that you are not listening and that this is not a disscusion, but rather one person holding their breath and throwing a fit because they don't like the way things are now. I am avoiding it because it is a mote question and answer. How do we get the Guidelines changed? we talk about it? we discuss the merits of it. We get noticed by the rule Changers. We all know what you are saying that YES They are illegal now but it does not mean we have to keep mum until someone magically out of the blue, changes the rules. Changing rules is usually an uphill battle and we have to start somewhere and what better place to start then on Groundspeaks Forums. Thank you for finnaly listing to me and agreeing with my original point instead of stupidly wasting your time and mine. I listened to you but I also ignored the obvious but to satisfy you I directly answered it.