Vertigoat
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Posts posted by Vertigoat
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Keep 'em, guard 'em, and don't release 'em. That way they will be safe. Oh wait, you may want to place them in a safety deposit box. It's like that private art collection, good for you and no one else.
Perhaps they can come come up with a way to keep the coin and still use the tracking number only it should not be linked to a coin, but rather a regular TB. That way people will not seek out the crap substitutes and owners will still get the use of a tracking number. Problem solved!
Good day to you Sir!
You know, maybe you ought to release a few real coins and see how it works out for you.
Strange how people who are the most vociferous about this topic rarely have much of an investment in released coins. Then again, maybe it's not strange at all.
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That's all good and well, but you need to put some more effort into it...
and finish it up like this:
I think it would be really neat to find that in a cache. Even back when there were just the USA geocoins and the Moun10bike coins, the Moun10bike coins were almost never out in caches on the East Coast. Hunting and finding that out in the wild would be so much better than just seeing one at a picnic that someone else traded for.
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Thanks for creating this new, unlocked thread with the same topic that can now be used to continue the original discussion.
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Take a minted copy coin and it's twin and compare that set to any geocoin and it's most meticulously made photocopy laminated clone.
Theres no comparison.
The minted copy IS the same as the unbranded geocoin.
So a copy is OK to log if it's a good enough quality copy? You really don't have to see the original?
So who determines if the quality is good enough?
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It's easy to reconcile.
The "copy" coin is identical to the nonmarked coin with the exception of the engraved word. It's the same weight, size and thickness. They were struck with the same dies. The copy geocoin is a real geocoin.
The laminated cardboard is not.
But, to paraphrase Highlander, there "can only be one". Even though the copy may look identical to the original with the exception of the word "Copy", it still isn't the original geocoin. The paper copy coins, if they're made with care, look reasonably well and convey most all the important characteristics of the original too. Some people on this forum have previously made a big deal about only the original coin can be logged and said things like even if you've seen an expensive replica of the Mona Lisa, you still haven't seen the Mona Lisa unless you've been to the Louvre in Paris.
I'm all for anything that puts coins in caches. It just seems inconsistent to me that people who reject paper copy coins and ridicule those who make them would be willing to embrace these copies, just because they're more realistic. Hopefully nobody will threaten to take a pair of tin snips and cut up any of these disgusting new metal copy coins like they threatened to do with the paper copies.
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I got an email form geoswag the other day and now they are starting to send you a copy coin with your regular coin I got them yesterday and sure enough i got my regular coin and a copy that looks just like it with engraving on the edge that says copy please keep moving cache to cache!! cool!!
Out of curiousity, how are these different from laminated paper copy coins? Obviously they're better quality copies but I'm just wondering if the same people who rabidly insist that you absolutely, positively must see the REAL coin to properly log it think it's OK to log these copy coins because they're made of metal. If you see the copy coin in a cache, have you seen the real coin?
I personally think it's a neat idea but I'm just wondering how the anti-paper copy folks can logically reconcile their positions.
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Over the last year there's been about 300 different types of trackable coins minted with mintages ranging from 500 to 1500 coins each. There probably should be somewhere in the range of 200,000 trackable coins in existence. The GC site says there are 289,212 active caches in the world, many of which are micros that won't hold a coin. Considering those numbers, the % of trackable coins out in caches is very, very low.
Just an observation.
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"Theft: a criminal taking of the property or services of another without consent"
How can you steal property that has been abandoned by the original owner?
It's not abandoned. It belongs to someone and it's doing what it's meant to do. As a geocacher, if you find a trackable geocoin or travel bug in a cache and you see it has a tracking number, you know to check it's mission. If it says that it's supposed to keep moving, it's an act of theft to keep it, plan and simple. If it's not registered or it says you can keep it, then it's your coin to do with as you wish.
This is why people put laminated paper coins in caches.
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Until someone can produce a law that says it's illegal, I fail to see any problem with it on a legal front. Someone out there left a coin. It sucks, but it may be taken. That's the chance you take when you release a coin.
I think people get their panties in a wad over geocoins here a bit too much. For example, if I came across a Moun10bike coin v.1 in a legit manner, I might or might not sell it. It's worth a lot of money, you know, and if I have it, it's mine, no matter what cutesy little things are posted on some website. (For the record, in the Moun10bike case, I am referring to a coin I have purchased, not taken from a cache...I think that is bad form.) Until there is a law abouut this sort of thing, pissing and moaning and flailing your arms about the geocoin market is pointless.
"Theft: a criminal taking of the property or services of another without consent"
The laws already exist. If you know something belongs to someone else, you're not allowed to take it just because it's on public property and no one's looking. If you see a bicycle parked on a sidewalk, you can't just ride off on it. If you know a geocoin is supposed to stay in circulation, you can't just keep it.
Then too there's that pesky "Golden Rule" thing.
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You place a geocoin out there with no expressed purpose of retrieving it.
In the first example, you still retain ownership because you come back to it. That geocoin is released with no intentions of seeing it again, so in that case, ownership is renounced.
I'm sure the law agrees.
Traveling geocoins and travel bugs are fairly unique. I can't think of anything else that functions quite the same way they do. I think legally they would fall under the category of a "bailment" in that they are tangible goods left in the care of others (cachers) for mutual benefit. The finders get to find them and get the icon. The owners get to watch their progress and also get the icon. I'm sure that finders who are aware that the geocoin/bug isn't intended to be kept have a legal responsibility not to keep it.
I'm also pretty sure that just because you don't expect to see something physically again, you automatically renounce ownership in it. Satellites are routinely launched with the knowledge they won't be seen again but the owners expect they will be able to use them for their intended purpose. With geocoins and travel bugs, the owner does expect to continue to watch their movements.
Just because geocoins and travel bugs are too trivial to expect law enforcement involvement doesn't mean that it's either legal or moral to keep them against the owners wishes.
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#397 is the NEW USA Geocoin icon
#360 is MarylandGeocacher
#425 is Joshua Tree
#451 is Dutch Poffertjes
#464 is 2golfers
#475 is Kansas Sunshine
#476 is Zodiac
#478 is Monarch
#480 is Dressel Dragon
#481 is Canada's Capital Cachers
#485 is American Cache
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As I have mentioned before, buy 2 of the same coins! 1 for viewing/collecton and 1 for caching. problem solved.
It's not simply about the money. A lot of coins are irreplaceable. Who in their right mind would put out a real Geowoodstock III, a Geocache America Silver, Sweet Lake City, or other unique, hard to find coin in a cache knowing that in a few weeks someone will almost certainly post a "no coin found in cache" log? Why should the only way to get those icons be to look at real coins in someone's binder? How can that be as much fun as chasing the icons in caches?
Everyone enjoys finding real coins. Everyone enjoyed finding real jeeps. The problem is that the attrition rate for the real thing is way too high. Copies function as well as the real thing and if they're labeled as "COPY" in the title, I just don't see why anyone should object. No one objects if you use a "COPY" travel bug tag.
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How does it work? I've heard about people (and dogs, and Jeeps...) that wear Travel Bugs, but how do they work, and are they really Travel Bugs? *is a little confused*
I've read all about this. First you need to get your ear pierced. Depending on which ear you wear the TB tag in other people at event caches are supposed to be able to tell your caching preference and whether you prefer traditional caches or are open to more adventuresome multi-caches.
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I've got a better idea, if you don't want to loose them (or just cant face the fear of it) then don't release them. Share them at an event where others can look that them and enjoy seeing them and logging them. And why are you people all arguing over this topic? I don't know about you, but I'd rather be caching than sitting talking here...
Don't forget to take a bunch of real coins with you to put out!
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At least there are now 2 more Jeeps to try and pick up. That is if they were actually put into the cache.
andGuest
Looks like they were put in a cache called the Isle of the Dead - Australian Travel Bug Graveyard in Tasmania.
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I didn't realize that I had to register every McToy and golfball in my cache for it to count as part of geocaching. Do I need to have a my GPSr have an official GC.com certification so I can continue playing?
There are other places to have things tracked.
If you want them to show up on your stats page and if GC.com would agree to do it, I think the answer is "yes".
Obviously there are lots of ways to have fun with the GPS system if you're creative. As far as GC.com registering a "find" for a cache, a travel bug, a jeep, or a coin, the possibilities are pretty limited. I think a Team A.I. crystal paperweight would be as nice as a non-trackable coin and would be something I could use every day.
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I've seen on several occasions where people have posted messages about being very upset that the coins they just found in a cache or traded for, wasn't going to get them an icon. To not consider a group of geocoins because they don't have an associated icon in your stats, leaves out a large number of pioneering GEOCOINS by teams and organizations.
Amen, brother.
The thing is though unless a coin is GC trackable it's not an official part of the "game" and you don't "score" a find. Granted there are a lot of non-trackable coins that are as well designed and nice to look at as any trackable coin but without the GC trackability, they're just another form of personalized swag. I don't think practically anyone ever moves a non-trackable coin from cache to cache. Functionally, they could just as easily be a nice personalized paperweight or keychain fob.
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There are many coins that have larger numbers than the Moun10Bike coins. If you're counting iterations, most state coins runs have way more coins in circulation. My guess would be Texas, followed by Michigan. I'm not sure how many coins in the USA set, but I bet that Canadian coins are the second highest.
According to the Monsterlist of Geocoins, the total number of Moun10Bike coins are 900 for all the iterations. While this is an impressive number for a personal coins, it's probably about average for most state/region coins. What makes the number even more impressive is that they were not sold.
I've been collecting Geocoins for over four years now and the ones I've seen the least available, are the GD "Mystery Coin" and the GC Square Project coins.
For the rarist coins, I'd look at the Team Fisur Geocoin list. The first and second columns have probably the hardest coins to find, or even trade for.
I think there are other GC-trackable Moun10bike coin items too though (like the Christmas medals) aren't there? That would put the number at least > 1100 which would be beyond most state coins. As far as GC trackable coins, (which the original post was about), I'd be surprised if there are very many of the new GC trackable Canadian coins out in circulation.
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I may be mistaken, but I think the Moun10bike coin, in all its various iterations, is probably second only to the USA geocoin in the number in circulation. However, since it's only been available through trades and finds, very few people have a spare one to trade. A year ago, it was the "rare" icon that practically no one had unless they had some connection to the Pacific Northwest. I think that same sense of rarity continues, even though there seems to be several around now.
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What about the MiGO, Fall 2005 coin? It is trackable, and I've personally offered everything from body parts, to cold hard cash, to half my coin collection for one of these, and still have no takers.
Not even on e-Sale?
There are variations on some fairly common trackable coins that are indeed very rare. In addition to the MIGO seasonals I'd include things like the bronze Geowoodstock III volunteer coin and the Delugly Delaware coin. I think there were some other state coins too that may have had only a handful of coins minted in a particular metal.
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What in your opinion are 'the hard to get' trackable geocoins? And with trackable I mean trackable at geocaching.com. In my opinion they are:
1) Moun10Bike V1
2) Moun10Bike V2
3) Moun10Bike V3
4) First Finders Dance GCC
5) Geowoodstock III
Do I miss some coins, and in what order?
I think you've got the first two right since they were out there before the trackable geocoin onslaught started. There are some other trackables that were never offered for sale though (as far as I know) that could easily be in the top 5 (not sure about the order).
They'd include:
1. Groundspeak Lackey
2. geoPirat
3. Jeep'n Jumpers
4. Darthi
5. Ajayhawkfan
6. Johnny Boy & D.B. Cooper
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Finding a geocoin in a cache is fun and exciting. It also tells me something about the owners attitude. They fall into 3 categories.
1. Releasing an actual unmolested geocoin tells me the owner is adventurous and doesn't mind taking risks. They basically trust people.
"dadgum the torpedos, full steam ahead".
2. Releasing a drilled defaced geocoin tells me the owner will take some risk but is basically untrusting.
3. Releasing a picture of a geocoin tells me the owner is afraid of risk and doesn't trust anyone. They'd probably require their Mom to put up the farm as collateral on a $20.00 loan.
Or maybe:
1. Releasing an actual unmolested geocoin tells me the owner is naive and gullible and is probably waiting for General Mugubu to wire him or her some money from Nigeria. They basically trust people.
"Let's pick up that hitchhiker".
2. Releasing a drilled defaced geocoin tells me the owner at least has a clue.
3. Releasing a picture of a geocoin tells me the owner has been around long enough to watch yellow jeeps practically all disappear, white jeeps practically all disappear, and several of his or her own geocoins and travel bugs disappear. He or she realizes that putting an expensive coin in a cache is ultimately like flushing money down a toilet.
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6/25 Update
Yellow Jeeps 5001
Never Released 1061
Logged in the Last 30 Days 370 9% of the Number released
Logged in the Last 90 days 678 17% of the number released
White Jeeps 5000
Never Released 525
Logged in the last 30 days 905 20% of the number released
Logged in the last 90 days 1570 35% of the number released
Thanks for figuring this out, very interestting to look at.
However, I think you might change 'never released' to 'never logged'. Its not like Groundspeak has a thousand yellow jeeps sitting around....
Also, you might note your percentages use the number that were ever 'logged', not the total number
.Another thing that would be highly relevant is the number of Jeeps that were logged in conjunction with an event as opposed to being found in a real cache. I bet that 2/3rd's of the logs were from events and that the Jeeps weren't out in physical caches to be found. Probably a bunch of the ones that were logged were circulated at Geowoodstock.
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mines out there and traveling has been for a while
I had to check this one out too since I can't imagine this coin actually surviving in the wild for any length of time. Looks like it's only been passed around. I doubt it's actually seen the inside of a cache. It was logged into only one physical cache but it was also logged out the same day, probably by different members of the same group of cachers.
Good luck little coin.
it is out there in caches as are 90 odd more of my coins most of my coins have something that says not to be logged unless you see the coin this one did spend 1 day at an event with my permission but i can assure you it is in a cache
You might want to look at that again. The log says that from 4/27 through 6/18 it was only passed around from hand to hand. On 6/18 it's logged in and out of the only physical cache it visited since it's release. It's still in somebody's hands now.
My only interest in it is was to see if there's somewhere in the world where real geocoins work like they are supposed to. I'm not convinced they can be made to travel around for very long. It seems the nicer the coin the less likely it's anywhere to be found.
GeoCoin substitutions
in Trackables
Posted
Some of us prefer to use sock puppet accounts on the forums so some of the less stable characters on these boards don't send us harassing e-mails or do who-knows-what. I highly recommend the practice.