NeecesandNephews

Wow... the forum reg's must be slipping. I can't believe no one has said... "inside an ammo can".

Name one other "game" that has no rules. We have rules, and accurate coordinates is one of them. I have heard the "ultra-liberal" excuse of "everyone plays their own way" and frankly I think that is the lamest, sorriest load of crap anyone ever tried to sell. (just my opinion) Even when we have family gatherings and play horseshoes, monopoly, or whatever, we frequently play by "house rules" NOT the official sanctioned regulation rules. The biggest difference is... everyone playing agrees to these rules beforehand. That is NOT what is happening here. As for "soft" coords, I feel sorry for the Owners who do this. Either they lack creativity, have a self confidence problem, or just find it entertaining (in a sick twisted sense) watching the DNF's pile up. For all who would argue otherwise... why would you place a cache you did not want to be found?? You want to hide a nano in the forest with a high difficulty rating, I can see that. You place the same cache with coordinates that are intentionaly off, you have issues. opinions rendered in this post are solely the views of the poster, and may or may not be endorsed by Groundspeak.

No... but I have to say... she smoked him. Sorry Toz.

Wow... I think this is a fine time to put advice from another thread to use and just say... "yes dear"

If this is truly the cache; 1. I cant tell from the trees how close it is to the road. If that is truly the cache, from the title, I would guess it is on a guard rail, which, if that is true, would tell me that it is not on private property. I naturally thought the same, until reading through some of the logs and finding this entry: Found this one on a rainy day. The log was soaked and it was farther out than we thought. Muggles passing us by seemed confused as to why we were pulled over and looking around a fence. What a laugh we had about that! TFTC

In response to both this post, and Keystone's, why not change the wording to "There seems to be a problem with this cache" or "Could a reviewer please look into this?" Naturally the form wouldn't be sent until a reason is given for the cache to be checked out. +1 This could work. If clicking on the "NA" log opened a new page, or a box where an explanation of the reasoning behind it had to be entered, it would help those who are reluctant, to overcome the negative aspect, as it would allow them to justify their position. It would also serve an additional purpose of helping the Reviewer to more quickly determine why it was logged to begin with. Saving them the time having to research the cause. It would also cut down on the "irate reaction/nuisance" NA logs where someone offended another and the offended party retaliated. They would have to give a reason. This information could be made viewably to the Reviewer only. Might simplify the process.

Tough question. When I read Totems post I was quickly in agreement. A "Notify Reviewer" would likely be used more by reporting cachers who don't want to look "bad". But, Keystone brings up an excellent point. Will this cause that feature to be used as a straight line to Dr. Phil to whine about other issues?? Probably. In reality the "Needs Archived" is blunt... and harsh. I believe it tends to have a greater psychological effect on cache owners who see it posted on their caches. Flip side of that coin is, it has a negative tone to it that some cachers don't want associated with their persona. I wish cachers would come to terms with the need to use the "NA". It is not the cache hunters fault the cache is on private property, near a railroad, has been destroyed, ect.... If you are not mis-using the feature why would you feel guilty about it??

On your property without anyone ever asking your permission??? I would have a Reviewer archive that in a heartbeat. We had one placed by someone else outside the edge of our property and ended up having our landscape lighting destroyed by people hunting it. I sent a note to the Reviewer who archived it immediately. I think if I were in your shoes I would do the same. Also, reading some previous posts about the existing cache, I think cachers might mistakenly attribute the "lesser" cache to you as a CO. Some may wonder why you put out a micro in the middle of what sounds like a cool series . Sure... the info is on the cache page, but lots of cachers don't pay attention. It was clearly in the description of the cache that I had archived that you did not need to come onto our property. Sounds like a great plan you have for your hides!! Good luck with them!!

edit to remove double post. That was strange. flyfshrgrl I feel your pain!!!.

Getting a little more back on topic (I think)... I too have just rolled my eyes at some of the "inconsistencies" I have seen pertaining to enforcement of the Guidelines. It seems hit and miss to say the least. New Years day we awoke to a new small power trail where the caches (film can/pill bottle type) were inserted into the end of a pipe in some 70 or so locations, driven into the ground. The cache pages, in bold type, asks cachers to "NOT pull the pipe out of the ground to retrieve the cache". Really??? The Reviewer had to have seen this on the cache page if he never saw a single hide in person. Does the pipe in the ground bother me?? Nope. I don't take it as serious as some would. It DOES make me wonder what criteria are used when deciding if a cache meets the Guidelines. And how it managed to be applied 70 times. Iknow... I know... it's just a game. At least that's what we are constantly being reminded. But some consistency would be nice. I have nothing against P&G's. Or micros in the woods. Or magnetic nanos. Or dumpster hides. If it wasn't for these "power trails" we would have a LOT fewer caches to hunt in our rural area. I have yet to hide a cache. I have found several types, including the ones listed above. I take it all with a grain of salt. I am not ALL about the numbers, but I like to see my numbers increase. I enjoy the hunt, even for the mundane. Are there caches that stand out as "higher quality" or "location exceptional"? You bet there are. Are there caches that are bland, boring, and ill maintained??? You bet there are. I just take it all in as part of "the game". In the end... I am not the one Reviewing and publishing these caches. I am not the one hiding them. So when it comes to complaining about them, while I will drop my two cents, the real recourse I have is to do better with my own. We all could follow Briansnats advice. If we did I think the overall experience would be satisfying.

There is really no diplomatic way to point this out, but I will try not to offend you in saying... if you do not know what a Reviewer is or what they do... perhaps you are not ready for cache ownership. Some reading is recommended. It really does not take that long to get the basic grasp of the Guidelines. Good luck!!

Is "liking" it the same as signing the log?? I found the page, do I get to add it to my found count and get another smiley??

I cannot believe the same people are still beating the same dead horse. It is NOT going to get up.

ohiosoiuxfan, I would like to take a moment to personally thank you for not trying to "skirt" the guidelines, or justify your actions as not outside the guidelines. Couple this caring attitude with a creative mind, and you will bring much to the game!! I salute you! Keystone, thanks for your funny observations, and for clarifying in your usual way without being obnoxious. You too are a credit to the game. (don't live or cache near either one, so NO i am not trying to suck up)

Not having been able to do much backwoods, off-road caching for a while because of job requirements (gotta pay bills lol) I will add a little. Last year I made a few tall grass forays, and found the tick problem a LOT worse in the grass than in the woods. The main thing I want to add is : Permethrin WORKS!!!! We have a little dog inside and cats outside, and have never had any ill effects to ourselves from spraying our clothes, the flower beds, around the foundation of the house, or any where else from it. I use it regularly as an insecticide on my veg garden. Use extreme caution spraying when cats are around!!! My understanding, and experience, is that it is toxic to cats WHEN WET. I managed to not kill one, but made one cat terribly ill. I am confident it was due to the cat laying in a flower bed I had just sprayed. Have had no problems with it after it has dried, but the cats avoid any area that is sprayed. (which was a plus for me, as it kept them from using my raised bed gardens for a litter box) This year I am trying a Permethrin powder application similar to Sevin, but have not really checked results yet. The main thing I wanted to add is to repeat the advice to spray your truck or car seats. I found ticks crawling on my upholstery in the truck TWO WEEKS after a tall grass trip. I believe they attached and "traveled" there. I don't really know how long they can live without feeding, but evidently its a LONG time. Nothing like going to work two weeks later and seeing a tick crawling off your headrest onto your passenger. The passenger was NOT pleased. Edit to add: The spray we have used in the past was Permethrin. The powder I am trying this year on my yard and gardens is Pyrethrum. Pyrethrum is a natural insecticide made from Chrysanthemum, Permethrin is the man made chemical copy of same.

I LOVE nanos. I sometimes run out of ball bearings for my wrist-rocket slingshot. Nanos are a perfectly acceptable replacement. Only drawback is.. after sending every one of them I finally DO find into the furthest reaches of hell, I have to go online and log a "needs maintenance". Most times its worth it. Something smaller might not work as well. Before the angst piles up so deep I can't get online, please be aware I am just joking.

This. I think it would be an eye-opening experiment, but the cynical side of me doubts it would change much of anything. The few cachers I know who have chosen to dedicate themselves to "cache swag improvement" will still follow that decision, and those who don't care will... well... not care.

In defense of this Forum and it's participants, I would point out to the OP (and any other posters who have expressed dissatisfaction with the responses posted) that there is a stark difference between coming to the Forum and asking for "opinion", and coming to the Forum and asking for "validation". Opinions vare widely here, and you are likely to find dissenting posts on any topic from the one the OP brought up , to the best flavor of ice cream. When you elect to post in a Forum with the wide economic, educational, geographic, political, religious,... ect. ect. , diversity of readers, you can expect to get responses that are a varied as the demographic. I dislike the common response that you should have "tough skin" to post here. I simply feel you need to be realistic in your expectations when you ask for comments. Regarding the OP topic... I think the OP's "stranger become caching partner" is not legally liable for cost of the OP's actions.But I am not an attorney, I'm an electrician. I will say (IMO) that if the "Stranger" agreed to pay something, if only verbally, he should do so. I was taught from a young age, if you commit to something, you follow through. It is a point of principle, honor, and character to me. But... some people are just "worms". And that sucks. edit to add: I will also point out, that IMO, (notwistanding the OP's feeling that he has been insulted), to come to the Forum and post negative remarks about another cacher, whether stranger or long time friend, without that cacher being here to defend his position,is kinda' "wormy" too. This is something that should have been settled in private. "let him who is without spot or blemish cast the first stone"

My first thoughts after reading the OP were "why would you place a cache in a location that would intentionally disturb a "protected species" (?) or a restricted reserve for wildlife"? It seems to me to be a poor location for a cache. Perhaps we do not have enough information on the particulars. snip/ snip Ah well.... I am going way off topic. Sorry. In answer to the original question... I can't seem to figure out exactly "what" it is, but evidently Groundspeak approves it. edited to remove content unrelated to the original post. I must apologize for my crankiness of late. We are having issues with our inernet service from Sudden(un)Link. The lack of stable internet connectivity has left me wandering aimlessly, listless and unfocused.

GASP!! You can't mean...? How can I...? You expect me to...? OMG!!! This is going to take more than thirty seconds!!! I don't have that kind of time!!! If I am to find more than fifty roadside film cannisters in a day I can't be bothered with actually TYPING A RESPONSE!!!This is going to totally detract from the amount of time I spend looking at my smilies on the map and feeling all warm and fuzzy over my accomplishments. Geez, I might have to actually THANK someone??? Next thing you will expect me to actually OPEN the container and SIGN the log!!!!!! Where will it all end!!! Good grief! One more person who doesn't understand that 'TFTC'is an acronym.I understand what TFTC means and that's it's an acronym. To me, when someone shortens "thanks for the cache" to a four letter acronym it indicates that it's from someone that can't even take the time to type 20 additional characters.Again, if a person chooses to read more into the written word than is actually there, he does it at his own peril. Oh the irony! sbell111 I would think someone of your self proclaimed intellectual superiority would recognize someone being facetious when you read it. I know full well what TFTC means. I use it nearly every time I log. I also show the cache owner the simple courtesy of posting a few words more in appreciation. A concept you don't seem to understand. I have shown the same courtesy to you in not attempting to belittle you by mocking your posts, or your opinions. You seem to wander the forums looking for someone to argue with. Keep looking. In your earlier post, you were pretty clear that you did not feel that 'TFTC' wasan attempt to communicate the finder's 'thanks for the cache'. In your later post, you stated that you nearly always include 'TFTC' in your logs. When you use 'tftc' in your logs, do you mean it to stand for 'thanks for the cache'? How do you know that the other finders don't use it to mean 'thanks for the cache'? If they do use it to mean 'thanks for the cache', how can you state that they are not thanking someone? Once again... for the comprehensively challenged....and the argument determined... My EXACT point was... I DO NOT feel TFTC is ENOUGH. Nowhere in my posts do you see me demanding that YOU post anything more than you want.. Or anything at all for that matter. If you read it again, you will see I was poking fun at people who feel its too much to ask of them to post anything more than TFTC. Like a few additional words is such a trial. If it doesn't bother you to post nothing, then power to you. The point I was trying to add to the discussion was my personal opinion. I post TFTC on nearly every online log, and also in the cache log itself. Now pay attention here... I ALSO post some additional words, even if they are patronizing, insincere drivel. I am not going to debate the pointless theory that posting insincerely is worse than posting nothing. I merely posted my opinion. I feel no responsibility to justify the thought basis of it to anyone, especially you. YOUR conscience guides you, mine guides me. Back on ignore you go. The only reason you got off was I kept seeing my post quoted. You might consider... when 6 of the previous 12 posts are yours... you might not be engaging in healthy debate.

Oh, believe me... it no longer takes a "cut & paste cache" to get cut & paste logs. Not even close!!That is for sure! Recent logs on one of my hides: April 23 "This is one of the best hides in one of the nicest locales I've ever found. Kudos to WRASTRO! Definitely will be tagged a fave. Thanks for the hide! SL." April 19 "Thank you so much for re-enabling this. Not just panda's pleasure but a poppa pleasure to finally have this one. This one eluded me on multiple attempts (I checked and embarrassedly I admit I didn't post any DNFs). But on this majestic sunny day I finally found it. This is truly a splendid cache." April 17 "I searched for two other types of hides before hitting on the right idea. Well done and TFTC!" April 13 "TFTC" I'm pretty sure that you just proved the rule. Sure, good caches can still catch the random c&p log, but lame caches will get bunches of them. If your cache gets lots of them, you might want to think about your cache's quality a bit more. If someone's cache only gets the rare c&p log and it still bothers him, perhaps he needs thicker skin.So what you're saying is that if a cache owner shows some initiative and creates what should be a memorable cache rather than throw a film can into a bush, it's the cache owners fault for not having a thick skin when a bunch of lazy cachers can't be bothered to post a log with nothing more than TFTC.I'm pretty certain that my post stated nothing of the sort. Perhaps you should stick to the words as they are actually typed rather than something else. GASP!! You can't mean...? How can I...? You expect me to...? OMG!!! This is going to take more than thirty seconds!!! I don't have that kind of time!!! If I am to find more than fifty roadside film cannisters in a day I can't be bothered with actually TYPING A RESPONSE!!!This is going to totally detract from the amount of time I spend looking at my smilies on the map and feeling all warm and fuzzy over my accomplishments. Geez, I might have to actually THANK someone??? Next thing you will expect me to actually OPEN the container and SIGN the log!!!!!! Where will it all end!!! Good grief! One more person who doesn't understand that 'TFTC'is an acronym.I understand what TFTC means and that's it's an acronym. To me, when someone shortens "thanks for the cache" to a four letter acronym it indicates that it's from someone that can't even take the time to type 20 additional characters. Again, if a person chooses to read more into the written word than is actually there, he does it at his own peril. Oh the irony! sbell111 I would think someone of your self proclaimed intellectual superiority would recognize someone being facetious when you read it. I know full well what TFTC means. I use it nearly every time I log. I also show the cache owner the simple courtesy of posting a few words more in appreciation. A concept you don't seem to understand. I have shown the same courtesy to you in not attempting to belittle you by mocking your posts, or your opinions. You seem to wander the forums looking for someone to argue with. Keep looking.

^^^ I'm WITH that!! This is a most excellent idea!! I have some reservations about the adoption process and noted in previous posts. I think it would bring forth some unnecessary problems over legal ownership of the cache itself. But I am more than patient enough to wait for a cache to get archived and place one there. I have yet to place a cache as we live in a rural, more or less unremarkable area of the state, which has caches in most of the nicer, more desirable locations, and I am against entering into the world of the mundane cache. This would open up some great locations which have unmaintained caches with absentee Owners. Perhaps you could offer up this Idea in the form of a Feedback listing??

GASP!! You can't mean...? How can I...? You expect me to...? OMG!!! This is going to take more than thirty seconds!!! I don't have that kind of time!!! If I am to find more than fifty roadside film cannisters in a day I can't be bothered with actually TYPING A RESPONSE!!! This is going to totally detract from the amount of time I spend looking at my smilies on the map and feeling all warm and fuzzy over my accomplishments. Geez, I might have to actually THANK someone??? Next thing you will expect me to actually OPEN the container and SIGN the log!!!!!! Where will it all end!!! Good grief!

It's fairly easy to explain why they "migrate" The Reader's Digest Condensed Version is : "MORONS". Every moron with the latest cell phone app (at least in my area) is absolutely positive if NASA knew how accurate their cell phone is, they would come and seize it for the greater good. I have read logs of new cachers "moving it to where my cell phone said it was supposed to be". Never mind it was well hidden with excellent camo, they are positive it was supposed to be dangling from a nail in the rafters of the gazebo of the local park, in plain sight. Science has yet to develop a cure for "stupid".