NeecesandNephews

How many cachers with tens of thousands of finds have you talked with? I haven't looked at the stats lately, but there are quite a few of 10k+ cachers; I think there are about a dozen in my general area. Certainly hundreds worldwide. If you've talked with most of them, then maybe you could make generalizations about them with some sort of credibility. I can understand you wanting to have it both ways; it's nice to broadly insinuate and become indignant when someone uses plainer language to connect the dots you've laid out. Connecting the dots you are laying out really "appears" you are just trolling. Sorry if that is to general for you. Find some one else to play with.

You're calling all "higher number" cachers dishonest? Define "dishonest". I have yet (but I have not been here for years, nor am I a world traveller) to see any high number cacher(s) who either frequent the forums, or are the topic of discussion in the forums, who does not practice some form of "questionable" logging, cache dropping, leapfrogging, ect., as opposed to the commonly accepted "method" of - [ YOU personally FIND the cache,(not some remnant), YOU sign the log (not someone on "your team") YOU return it to the location it was hidden in (not pass it on to the next person sitting in the car) Define "high number". I know cachers with less that 500 finds and a number of them are not genuine. I know cachers with finds in the low thousands and every one of them is legit. But I have yet to meet a cacher with the tens of thousands of finds who does not freely ADMIT questionable logging. Feel free to point one out. I am not the King of caching, the rulemaker, the absolute ruler of the cache universe, so no one has to answer to me, nor am I calling then anything!! You want to call it "dishonest"? That is your name for it. I am ok with that. You want to call it whatever, its a free country. However... it was YOU that tried to twist my words and say I am calling ALL high number cachers dishonest, when in fact I called none such. I said I was starting to understand. I never said it was dishonest. (despite what my opinion of it might be) As I have stated in other posts, in other topics " I personally believe the "play the game any way you want to" philosophy is the biggest load of crap ever perpetrated on the caching public. Such a philosophy can only breed chaos and discontent. Call whoever you choose, whatever you want, but don't put words in my mouth, or try to read between my lines of type. I will show you the same courtesy.

I am starting to get a much clearer understanding of how the higher number cachers managed to get there. Trust me when I say, it is not at all surprising.

Looking at the pics again for your cache construction, I have to appreciate the lengths you have gone to in order to comply with the guidelines. I think the method you have come up with is pretty smart, and will work like a charm!!! One alternative for you would have been to move to Oklahoma. New Years Day found my instant notifications crammed with about 70 "pipeline" caches in a small power trail with the pvc driven into the ground as in your original plan. Guess our Reviewer doesn't interpret the guidelines in the same manner. Go figure. edit spelling

Hey I feel that way about golf balls. Seems a great number of people don't like finding them in a cache. The way I golf, and the price of new ones, I'll trade for any I can find!!! To golf with me you can't be scared of bears, cause I go into the woods quite often!!

Hmmm... evidently I am cheap. I quit for much less. It only takes three or four DNF's in a row to make me quit. For the day.

Probably the easiest way would be to run a pocket query searching for attributes. When you set up the inquiry look for the "moon and stars" attribute which is "recommended at night", and the" flashlight" attribute which signifies flashlight required. The flashlight attribute could result in caches that are hidden in such a way as to require additional illumination, not just at night. You can exclude other attributes, or include other attributes, as you see fit. When you go to the PQ page, the instructions are fairly simple, and there is even a short video you can watch on how to set up a query.

OK, I promise not to talk about the n__l in the tree. So how about this view of the situation.? Cacher broke the rules. Don't care how, when, where. Another cacher dropped dime on them. Again... don't care why, when. Reviewer obviously agreed with reporter. Cache was archived. Cacher got butthurt and archived some other caches. VERY mature response. You come here questioning the guidelines. Or rather, the enforcement thereof. I understand your position. The Reviewers don't go physicaly inspect every hide. Nor do they do periodic checks to see if any geo-trail damage is being incurred. They rely on... wait for it... OTHER cachers to report any issues with the caches they find. If you feel there are caches in your area that violate the Guidelines, it is up to YOU to report them. Any of them. All of them. Coming to the Forum and questioning is fine, but if you feel so strongly about the "violations" you seem to see so many of, put on your badge, and start writing tickets. Send them to the Reviewer. Let them handle it. Let us know how that works out. I am really not sure why you came here and posted. WE can't change how it was handled. If it was just curiosity, Ok, I can accept that, and move along to some other reading.

Too funny, since when Opie's site first started up the misfits there would rag on the moderators here for banning them for a few days or a week, and how much better it was over there since it was not moderated and censored. Then you tell it like it is (maybe a bit harshly) and you get a year off. Funny how that works. In other news, our resident Opencaching spy Manville Possum Hunters has already reported back to headquarters about me being banned... "Word up in the GC.com forums in the thread about Garmin bribing people for listings from A&T is that TrailTech banned his main account here for a year, so BOLO for a new member spewing hate about our site or messing with peer review." I have to say, I have noted with only mild interest, that there seem to be several cachers who are buttering the bread on both sides. Come here: sing praises about GC and bash OX Go there: sing praises about OX and bash GC. Some people have too much free time.

Was the word, "entitlement" included in the "etc."? Thank you KC!! I forgot to add that one.

<insert two page dissertation by Toz> <insert gratuitious mention of the words "puritan", "knickers in twist", "just a game" ect.> If you didn't sign the log, I wouldn't claim a find. But that's just me. You will find differing opinions. I don't exactly agree with the " contact the owner" responses either. That would be like me looking for a cache, finding something that could have been used for a cache, and emailing the Owner and asking if I could log a find, I mean, I was there... and I looked. How can you be certain you found the cache??? I wish I had all the smilie's for caches that I was sure my GPS put me right on top of. But I couldn't find. Just my personal opinion. The final decision is really up to you , isn't it?? edit: speelin"

And the photos on the following logs: -The cache log for GC3CJKC Road to Nowhere -The TB log for GC3KQRC Castle Rocks Tree -Both the cache and TB logs for GC29YA0 Where Muggles Fear to Tread -The TB log for GC1TT4Z Very Sketchy -Both the cache and TB logs for GC2QXEX What Floats Your Boat? -Both the cache and TB logs for GC1AE0Q Tango's Treasure -Both the cache and TB logs for GC363PF Bobletts lookout -The TB log for GC2PRNC Welcom to Buffalo Land -And maybe the TB log for GC38T93 Lake Trail Omega (just to be safe, someone might be able to just make it out) I see one person has already virtually discovered it. I saw all of those but didn't feel like naming all of them. Thank you for taking the time!!!

Recommended reading: here

Please return to the log on this cache and edit out the Travel bug tracking code you included in the photo. Tracking codes are never to be displayed in photos.

If people were forced to decide if the reason they cache is to find the container or "for the journey" my guess is that you'd find the results about 50/50. Of course we're not forced to choose, so the real truth is the there is a mixture and it differs for each of us. One thing I can say is that before geocaching, I often climbed mountains. Sometimes there was even a summit register at the top so I could sign my name on a log. I certainly don't need geocaching if that is the only thing I care about. Of course back then there wasn't a place to come and share my experiences on line with others. But nowadays there are plenty of hiking websites and Facebook groups where I can post which mountains I've climbed and I can see what trail and mountains other people recommend. I can even use Waymarking.com where there are categories for hiking trails and mountain summits. What I don't understand is the insistence that geocaching needs virtual caches for you to do this. If you don't care about finding the container, there are other activities that better fit your needs than geocaching. My guess is that you do like to find the container, but there are containers hidden in places that you don't care to visit and containers you find less enjoyable because of the size or the difficulty of the hide. Fortunately, geocaching.com gives you tools with terrain and difficulty ratings, attributes, and favorite points. It's not hard to avoid looking for the nano in a tree if you think it will spoil the view. It's also no shame to post "DNF: Looked for the cache briefly, but nanos in trees are not my favorites. But view is spectacular from the top and made the hike worthwhile." I have to agree with this^. Surprised as I am by that.

HUH??? Either one brings you to the same mountain with the same view. I don't understand the difference you are trying to articulate. edit to add.... you must be referring to two different mountains. But then, how would you know that until you got there?? Unless you are implying the nano somehow spoiled the view??

IBTL:laughing: But for the record... I agree with you. If you look at my profile stats, you will see I cache mostly in the early spring, and usually just long enough to see what's new out here. There are a LOT of unfound (by me) P.T caches nearby.

I have told the story before about "muggling" a couple seeking a cache very near to our home, and becoming a "convert". Thank you again Antelope Hunter and wife!!!! Had they not taken the time to be truthful in response to my "less than pleasant "what are you doing here" I would never have learned about the game. There are many more non-players in my area than there are cachers. I have tried to introduce several of my friends and relatives, who I thought would be interested, to the game, with only one taker. One told me " that has got to be the biggest waste of time I have ever heard of". To which I replied "Thank you!!!" That is EXACTLY what I am doing it for. To get out of the house, away from the crowds, away from the job, ect. It is not for everyone. It is incredibly hard to determine whether or not someone else might be interested, or enjoy the game. One friend, who is an avid outdoorsman, and hunter, thought is was pretty lame. Another "technology geek" I thought would love it responded with an " I dont do outdoors". I am very careful to avoid disclosing the location of a cache to anyone who might NOT ask what I am doing. Its those people, who will wait until you leave, and go see what you were doing, that I am most leery of. I would rather have someone ask, but most people don't.

I am STILL new enough to remember the "sting" of seeing other people find something I had made several attempts at. You would not recognize that type of hide if you had not seen it before. Everyone has to learn. Or have some help. I am in Oklahoma, so I have obviously NOT found that particular cache. I have, however, sent you an e-mail with some extra tips. I hope you have better luck your next trip to find it!!!!

You can pretty much do whatever your conscience will allow you to. Don't be surprised if you are the subject of scorn or ridicule for your choices though. You gave them the location, (insight) helped make the container, and helped make the cache page. Are you going to be listed as a co-owner?? Cause this would appear like you are logging your own cache, which most feel is lame. Should you let someone else be FTF. Again... if you are trying to avoid the look of any impropriety, it would be wise. As far as your streak, again...(see above) .. I would not count on those caches alone to fill a day. Bottom line is... there is no prize, no medal, no national recognition, for what you accomplish in this game. You know if what you are doing is right or wrong. Someone is always going to find a reason to nit-pick. If what you are doing is lame or cheesy, it is still not "illegal". You can do it anyway. If you are unsure enough to come to the Forums and ask, you must already have reservations about what you are planning to do, or how it will be perceived. I would go with that first instinct. If you think it might be wrong, or might LOOK wrong... don't do it. Only YOU can decide what fits in either of those categories. edit to add: helping others get into caching the way you have presented it is a great thing to do. I don't know a lot of people who would go to that length to get someone started in the game. If you are doing it to pad your numbers, FTF's, or keep your streak intact, I think it sucks. Keep in mind... WE don't know your intent, and none of what I said is meant to be accusatory. Please don't take offense.

It didn't take me long to find a blog post with the deal, and it says "every five caches you hide or transfer". They don't say anything about removing them from this site, but it seems implied to me. Also, later in that blog post, they give a brief primer on geocaching. It says "The minimum that you need is a Garmin GPS unit..." Shameful. Hey, at least they are advocating the use of a real GPS unit. They could have said all you need is a "smartphone".

Some how I doubt that is just a coincidence There is always one in every crowd.

If you enjoy Facebook features....GO TO FACEBOOK!!! This is NOT it. I echo the many previous posts and have to enter a resounding "NO" vote on this idea. I forsee the same lazy smartphone cachers abusing this feature (if added) and logging "tftc" then "liking" their own log, and feeling like they have gone above and beyond the call. The next step would be wanting to get a smiley for simply "liking" a cache they found. As the ONLY log. Please do not open the door to this. And before you hit the reply button to flame me about the "lazy smartphone cacher " comment... if you are not like that , then you have no reason to be offended by it. And if you don't believe such a person could even exist, you have no reason to be outside your padded room and on the computer.

Maybe I tend to oversimplify. If I am caching on a power trail (yes I confess I have done two small local) and I am finding "copy and paste" caches, you can rest assured you are going to get "copy and paste logs". Same goes for the random hide. You slap a film can under a lamp post skirt, I am going to slap a "TFTC" on the log. Not to get Toz stirred up about the "wow" factor, I do find my logs reflect the hide. If it was creative, I try to make my log creative. Yes its very subjective, and I am the sole judge involved. There are exceptions. I have found film cans hidden in extraordinary locations. I have found some very interesting creative home-made containers in some pretty crappy locations. While it may not hold true 100% of the time, I still believe "great hides make for great logs". Perhaps the game as a whole is trending away from this. With the smartphone, even messages between friends have become "less is best". I think this has had the greatest effect on the game. Especially the apps that auto-log for you with the abbreviated format.

I frown on that and think its tacky. Don't do it. That is NOT the purpose of geocaching. If the dog turns his nose up at it, that's a pretty good sign it isn't worth the trouble.