Korfus & Son

I don't know whose receivers are always at 15 to 20 ft, but my Garmin Rinos are ALWAYS within 6 to 8 ft? How do you know that? Unless you are measuring it against a known accurate position it is impossible for you to know. Even if you do measure it against a known position it only proves that it is X accurate in that location at that moment. A different location or different day may bring different accuracy. Repeating myself again since you don't bother to read all the post, you see one that strikes a nerve and speak before you know. I HAVE SURVEYING EQUIPMENT, I SURVEYED MOST OF THIS AND THE NEIGHBORING COUNTIES! I was a surveyor for MANY YEARS, I HAVE POINTS THAT ARE USGS CERTIFIED TO GO BY IF THAT IS ENOUGH TO SATISFY YOU WITH YOUR INQUISITION SINE YOU DID NOT BOTHER TO READ FURTHER! Perhaps you should make a post on your local forum offering to take your surveying equipment out to assist these poor poor hiders so that they can post better coords on their caches? OH, and please turn off the CAPS LOCK. There's no need to yell at us. Ok, sorry for yelling, but I asked for constructive critsism, not smart A** remarks! I guess we know when kind of cacher you are if you take offense!

Thanks SCCS, That is why several cachers and myself came up with the idea and I wrote this thread. I was just trying to get cachers to just take a little care and pride in their cache. Just like th e 3 pigs, would someone build their house of straw? That was my point. Thanks for the positive/constructive comment, it was very well appreciated! Walter Leader of Team KORFUS

Really? You're staking your argument on a Rino? Maybe this is, again, a regional thing, but 'round these parts, people blame bad coordinates on Garmin Rinos. . . Where, exactly, in the Guidelines or Terms of Use does it say you need to average your waypoints? I found it in "How to Hide a Geocache" but this is not what anyone has agreed to read when they check those little boxes. They should read this section, I agree, but realize they never have to agree to have read it. Ok, Point taken, but I did not base them on just the Rinos, I was a surveyor for many years, I have equipment still certified to spec to place legal boundaries using the GPS, and have used that to check the calibration on my GPS units, including my Magellan, and embarassingly enough, my magellan was off over 35ft. So, NO, I am not JUST using the Garmin Rinos ALONE, they were checked with equipment the USGS uses for Cartography AND TOPO, so I trust the Rinos. I have test about 1 dozen of my friends, and there was a couple EARLY Magellan models that were off, 1 was MY OWN and it was off the most I will admit that, that is why I DID NOT SELL IT, I just retired it and stuck to the Rinos and other Garmin models like the eTrex and GPSMAP 60 CSx series are great and MANY of the new generation (last 4 ot 5 years of Magellans) that belong to friends that checked them agains the USGS Certified Coordinated, ARE ALL TOP OF THE LINE AND FINE, (No rhyming intented). I was just getting at what "Too Tall John" was saying about the rash of caches that SEEM to be just "thrown" out and a quick Lat. / Lon. check do from a few feet away or haphazardly, and then published. And @ Too Tall John, I agree and did not intend to imply it was "THE RULE", but yes, GC.com does RECOMMEND you get an average of at least 3 readings then double check the cache is "on" target, THEN publish (That was paraphrases, not verbatim). Ok, I promise will NOT snap back with any more post other than to educate or answer questions, I said my piece, and I encourage ALL to do the same and I respect your opinions and will read them as you have read my opininion / tutorial on correctly placing a cache (whether you agree, that is your right). So in ending, I say, I hope maybe someone will learn how to use the averaging method, and if just one did, it is worth all the "hate PM's" I get / have gotten, but I hope you ALL would just look at it from not my point of view, but from the view if you were cache seeking and come up on 8 of 10 caches more than 35ft off, how do YOU react? Would you wish the cache was placed with the best care and the owner actually take just a few minutes and take 3 readings and average them, if they do not know how, just read on "How Geocaching Started" it explains EVERYTHING including how to properly set a cache and average the Coordinates. So, hate my post, or learn from it, it is your right do respond as you wish / feel! I will NOT tell you how you should feel or even place the cache, I AM JUST SUGGESTING, that's all. I thanks ALL of you for reading this thread, it was meant to be educational with my own twist of sarcasm placed in it (I guess I should have just made it a tutorial and checked my sarcasm before hitting the keyboard?), but I HAD ALL GOOD INTENTIONS, but yes, I know the say the road to...is paved in good intentions, SO IF I OFFENDED ANYONE, I AM GENUINELY SORRY! I really mean that too! So please do not go away fro this post mad at me, try to take a little knowledge with you if you are new to Geocaching, all the "oldtimers" like myself, go ahead and be mad if you want, I know you guys/gals have paid your dues in caching! Unless someone asks me a direct question on this matter, I will just let this thread eventually die and "fall to the bottom". Thanks Everyone, Walter - Leader of Team KORFUS (a family and friend team of 9, and no we don't always go out together, I always go, but no more than 3 or 4 of us go at one time - and several members have their own CG accounts also, this is just the "Team" / my account).

I don't know whose receivers are always at 15 to 20 ft, but my Garmin Rinos are ALWAYS within 6 to 8 ft? How do you know that? Unless you are measuring it against a known accurate position it is impossible for you to know. Even if you do measure it against a known position it only proves that it is X accurate in that location at that moment. A different location or different day may bring different accuracy. Repeating myself again since you don't bother to read all the post, you see one that strikes a nerve and speak before you know. I HAVE SURVEYING EQUIPMENT, I SURVEYED MOST OF THIS AND THE NEIGHBORING COUNTIES! I was a surveyor for MANY YEARS, I HAVE POINTS THAT ARE USGS CERTIFIED TO GO BY IF THAT IS ENOUGH TO SATISFY YOU WITH YOUR INQUISITION SINE YOU DID NOT BOTHER TO READ FURTHER!

Not at all, come seek in this area, then you will understand. This was meant for people in the region, but I guess everyone in the world ( or 3,000 miles away) has to add their 2 cents?

not sure what equipment you use, but if you are not 6 to 8 ft most of the time, it must not be a very good GPS. Not one of mine go above 8ft accuracy unless it is very cloudy or in thick wooded areas? Try coming up to the Pacific NorthWet and check it out under heavy tree cover with trees every where. A good day is 22 foot. Yeah, when I cache in places that don't have heavy tree cover I can get 8 foot acccuracy. Again, don't RUSH through, READ, I am speaking of a specific geographical region where we are at sea level to 60 ft ONLY with VERY LIGHT forests, actually bushes if you want to be technical. I DO NOT DOUBT AT ALL some geographical regions with dense canopy overhead and/or rock formations in areas to block satellites over the horizon that you have poor reception and yes, that will definately throw off the signal to the point where it would be almost impossible to be "spot on", but here, in MY AREA, there is no excuse on flat ground where you can get 9 to 11 satellites ALL the time at VERY HIGH signal strengths. So please, understand, I am speaking of this region in particular that is the reason I started off by saying WHERE this is going on!

You are missing the whole concept here, I DID mention the ones 15ft off, but I still say "so what" to those, it is the ever-growing number of 35ft to even 60ft off the listed Lat./Lon. that I am actually trying to get the point across about. And, I said this was a NEW PET PEEVE, not something that is absolutley under my skin, but is may be if we continue to get all these newcomers that just place a cache, turn on the GPS, sometimes not even "over" the cache. As I stated I had actual pleasant discussions with some of the new cachers, and they said "I don't have time to make an avaerage of 3 reading" (which actually, if you study the geocaching history and how to place a cache, that is how it is to be done - so when those people check "I have read...", they are just doing so to get the new cache "published". I actually watched one of the guys (on invitation" place a cache, and he took the Lat./Lon. less than 3 ft from his car, which was parked about 25ft from the cache!). So, to sum it up, there is a huge "dumbing-down" coming into geocaching, and not by everyone, but many new comers are just in a hurry to "get the cache out" not taking any pride or worried about the quality of their cache. AND THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS I STARTED THIS THREAD, those few I speak of, had the nerve to complain that some caches were hidden too weel / hard, even though the Lat./Lon. fell right on the ammo box top of the cache and it only had 2 to 3 inches of spanish moss on it! What hippocrites! THAT is the very reason the 12 of us had a long discussion in a Waffle House from 9 pm until almost 12:30 am one night, and I promised them I would make a thread to see if others agree, guess I a wrong or either the responders are the guilty ones of poor cache etiquette, otherwise, why dispute the truth?

I do understand what all the responses are saying, but I was REALLY being conservative, only one cache was 30 ft off, the rest are greater than 40ft and up to 70ft - and 8 of 10 of them are by brand new cachers that I very nicely suggested using the "average of 3" readings, and they were not rude, but said they did not have enough time to take 3 readings before putting a cache down, yet they have plenty of time to go and seek? I spend NO LESS than 1 hour placing a cache, just read the logs of the 2 active ones I have now, people are VERY pleased withit, and go right to it with less than 3 ft deviation, and my caches are not visible at all, they are completely covered! It is like anything that you take time to do, it will be right, you do it fast and make mistakes, everyone can see this. And I brought this to the forum, not just for myself, but for about 9 other local and 2 out of town cachers that met with me at a restaraunt one night we discussed this, and were ALL in agreement. When I started in 2004 nearly EVERY cache was 10ft or less (mostly less), from listed Lat./Lon. , now maybe 2 of 10 are, and they are the hides of "old-timers" to caching. Sure, if your cache is off 5 ft AWESOME!, 10ft great, 15ft ok, 20 ft so so, more than 20ft, please, re-read the coordinates and do it right, remember, does the cache YOU "set" / hide, not reflect YOU? If so, then a sloppy cache means_______. ??? I could go into those that are listed as micro caches and are half-gallon jugs in reality, or vice-versa , listed as a medium to large cache and find a 35mm canister, yes, there are at least 2 like that I just found not long ago. Or caches that are home made "jars" or "jugs" with no waterproofing and continuously soaked logs and the owners NEVER go and repair / replace? BUT, I will stop there, as I am sure that at least 20 of you want to reach in and strangle me right here and now, but why, did I hit a nail on the head? I am just being honest, and trying to help cache owners tale a little pride in their work! Would you rather drive a 2010 Corvette down your main street of town with everyone looking, or a rusted yugo that back-fires every 10 ft? I know what I'd choose!

not sure what equipment you use, but if you are not 6 to 8 ft most of the time, it must not be a very good GPS. Not one of mine go above 8ft accuracy unless it is very cloudy or in thick wooded areas?

I know, I was a surveyor for many years, but I was actually "holding back" and being nice actually, most of these caches I had trouble with ARE more than 40 ft off, 1 is 65 (used surveying GPS to prove it to my brother that is the cache owner).

because if you do the average of 3 reading the proper way, which geocaching.com even explains, it will be much closer, and my problem is when there is NOTHING but open road for 30 to 50 ft from the listed coordinates, where there is NOWHERE to place a cache, and the ones I have the problems with, are the same 3 or 4 cachers, and they are cherry new to the sport / game, and refuse to do the average of at least 3 reading, I have made conversation with them, that is how I know! I would not say that if I didn't know!

I don't know whose receivers are always at 15 to 20 ft, but my Garmin Rinos are ALWAYS within 6 to 8 ft?

Which is really "dirty" on the part of CG / GS. They should let members have a certain amount of numbers per year to send out their own geocoins. Say, join as premium member, get 2 tracking numbers for making your own geocoins. This is not fair to people that are on fixed incomes and can't afford 250 tracking #'s at once, how would one even get the tracking #'s in bulk, I have searched for a month now and found nothing but this and a few other threads? If someone knows how to and how much a minimum batch of geocoin #'s cost and how to order them, PLEASE reply or PM me! Thanks

I have noticed here in Milton, FL that MANY, MANY, MANY, of the caches seem to be placed with the cache owner(s) just getting one Lat. / Lon. reading, and many times if it is near where you park, they take the reading right there, even if the cache is 15 to 20 ft away! This is so annoying! Also, many people are placing these "mini" micro caches that are 1.5 inches x 1/2 inch in size and not saying if they are hanging in a tree, in / on the ground and 2 of those here are ones that have no hints and the Lat. / Lon. falls in the middle of the road ( and that is using 4 Garmin Rinos to quadruple check, 1 Rino 110, 2 rino 120's, and 1 rino 130 - that is almost $1,000 worth of GPS), and ALL of them show this one cache here in the middle of the road?? What is up with people not taking 30 to 40 minutes to properly get the coordinates for a cache??? That is the whole point, to put your cache where you say it is, sure you can hide it as well as you wish with all the camo tape you want, just put the right coordinates down!!! If people check the " I have read the ..." then they would have read to take the average of 3 (three) readings BEFORE placing the cache as active online! Come on people, I expect this from newbies, but I have noticed those that have been on here as long or longer than myself (2004) getting lazy and very sloppy with Lat. / Lon. lately. Please, anyone else noticing this happening more frequently in the past year or so? By all means, I welcome ALL constructive responses / critisism - (keyword constructive - so "stop whining" commentors can, well figure it out)

Sorry if this is off-topic here, But I am unable to purchase geocahing gear because a CC is required. I am looking for someone who whoul be willing to sell me about 25 of the "window" type logo stickers (the white ones that have paper on both sides), and 2 TB Tags, also 2 regular size cache stickers for placing on the cache itself. I can send Money Order or Paypal to the person who would do this for me. Thank You Bunches,