The Blue Quasar

I will not engage in any type of war of words. I will restate facts. I have been contacted by gm100guy, his email is attached below. I only want to know what has been discussed with Parks Ontario, and who is doing the talking. This has been asked repeatedly and from more than just myself, and yet there is no reply. Throwing statements of vagueness like "we", "us" and "a lot of geocachers" does not provide a contact point. Who are these people that you speak of gm100guy? THIS is the reason we need to band together, so we all know what is being done. If the future of Geocaching in Ontario is at stake then we all should read what is being done and said at these closed door meetings. It's just like OLAR said, there have been many well publisized events for people to get together and discuss a group. Everyone has always been welcome and they have been very spread out geographically. Many people have made the effort to attend these "meeting of the minds" and now thanks to Algonquin Bound the ball is finally rolling. Many people are reading this thread and not commenting, and I wish they would, because I think everyone needs to say what they want. People have spoken of this for a long time, it's time to act. I too see where this is going, and to use a political statement, it is philabustering. No one would dispute your passion on this topic, there just doesn't appear to be any progress. Everyone in this forum knows full well where I stand. I believe in open communication and getting organized now. The Blue Quasar attachment: --->full copy of email sent to The Blue Quasar by gm100guy Hello Blue, I think it is about time we stop the pissing war about getting organizied. I have been vocal because it seemed that from the first post that you and bunch of cachers had started this organization and had not consulted the masses. Some of the cachers that have been speaking for you and your group pissed off some other cachers in having named you as the leader and naming the group already. The cachers that are the silent majority that have never been to a pub night or your cache events are feeling left out of the process. I have had some emails that support what I have been doing on the thread because we want an open discussion about this and want to have all included in the process. But good debate is also healthy and we are now getting more positive responses to forming a group for Ontario. As I look at some of the posters in the thread they are or seem to be newbies, what we need to do is get the senior members of Ontario to sit down and solve this problem about what we need to stand for and what direction an association should take. But to do that we need to look like we are serious and are a legit reps of all cachers in the province and not just a few that met once or twice and started this. I still think we need an open meeting for all who wish to attend and get there input and start from there instead of the way we are going right now. And please leave the parks thing alone right now as we are making good head way there and we do not need to rock the boat at this time. Hoping to work with you and have a good association to represent the geocachers of Ontario. Lets work on a good date and place we can meet in the new year.

I would like to express at this time what my intentions would be if I was to lead a unified geocaching group or association. 1... Develope a web site presense to provide the following items 1a)... Information for geocachers of discussions with government groups with respect to geocaching policies within, but not limited to, their regions. This would include transcripts of the meeting. 1b)... Detailed regional files for local geocaches, including .loc's for the region and multi-cache series (eg "Sweet 16" cache as a downloadable loc file), and hopefully if people would like this feature, a rating system for every cache. This would be useful to people that are going to be caching outside of their normal area. As an example, if a person from London was going to Ottawa, they would be able to see at a glance the local caches and know what to expect from any cache based on previous finders information. 1c)... Listings for Event Caches/CITO Caches and potentially charity and/or media events. 2... To be a contact point for Geocaching.com and Provincial government so that we as a group can voice our position on key issues of geocaching in Ontario. This would be a small group of people but more than just one to provide information and clarify what geocaching means. 3... To provide a location for Regional interests groups to find out what geocachers are doing in their area and contact us in the event of any concerns so that all persons can find satistfactory results and rights and privelledges are not infringed upon. Realistically, I see GO or OGA or whatever name is ultimately chosen to be a group by the Geocaching community for the Geocaching community. A group that can be approached by government groups and other special interests. I do not see our group as one is dictate terms or push ideals upon others. I do think that any groups that is formed should immediately contact Parks Ontario, the media, Geocaching.com (through Cache-Tech) and as many other geocachers as is possible so that those groups are aware of our existance and so that they can contact us as needed. Lastly, I am concerned that there has been discussions with groups such as Parks Ontario and the Hamilton Conservation Authority to name a few that have been handled with secrecy and privacy. This discussions should be posted for all to see, good or bad, and we all should know what has been said so far, where things stand as of December and what plans for the future have been made. Cache-Tech has said he/she has talked with various groups and progress is being made. I think that this group needs to join with Cache-Tech and be a part of the discussion. That should not be one voice that has taken it upon themselves to speak for the masses without having been appointed, and then keep the comments and discussions private. That only breeds distrust and paranoia. I think that the group could be very informative and useful, without being primarily politically motivated. The Blue Quasar Oh, and the SOGA logo was requested by me for informational reasons only, not to promote this as the official name/logo. I think SOGA is too restrictive as a name, and I agree that the logo is great and needs to have the text edited so suit the name of the group.

All I hope to get for Christmas is a "Bruce Trail Guide Book", anything other than that is a bonus. I am pretty lucky already so when it comes to Christmas the top thing on my list is a good meal with family and not having to kiss all those relatives you don't see all that often. Best to you all! The Blue Quasar

I would love to post the original SOGA so those that haven't seen it can, just for referrence sake since it will have to be changed. I too think "GO" is my favourite choice. Can someone tell me if and how I can post the image? The Blue Quasar

Hello all. Fast growing topic. Since I really can't answer all of the suggested questions for obvious reason I will say what my thoughts are of what has been said so far. I agree that SOGA is not the name that a group should go with. By definition from government literature that I have read, Southern Ontario is every region except 5. And I think that every area of Ontario should be recognized and represented. I am willing to take the "organizer" role and if that is the leadership then I would do that too. I have many ideas, some taken from other people's posts and some of my own to offer. I see the group as an informative area, one that has a unique Ontario flair to it. If contact with governement officials is required then it would be from a supportive role with Geocaching.com but also to represent caching in Ontario's interest. As for a name I have been tossing around a few names, and of course I would hope for input or approval from a majority of people. Names that I think up are usually acronyms. GO (Geocaching Ontario) or simply "Geocaching Ontario", or maybe GOING (GO + Information Network Group). All I would ask is that it is a catchy name without being childish. For example TOGA (The Ontario Geocaching Association) would be seen as college partiers and be taken as a joke. So, like everyone says there would have to be a few people to get things started, and if I was leading then I know that I would like to see every region to have a place within it. Like Logger and Ail said in a different thread, the WEB SITE is paramount to getting things startd and content can be added in as developed. I have lots of ideas for content and while I do not look at other Geo-clubs sites because I would like ours to be fresh and inventive. Lots of info and support tools, files and ratings, lists and lists and lists. A second stop after Geocaching.com for those that would like to feel at home with more of a personal touch. My thoughts, please share yours. The Blue Quasar P.S. Thanks for all the nice things you are all saying about me, I hope I canlive up to your hopes if I lead this group.

That's great Gm100guy! I honestly have never really gotten a full insite on where you stood. Now that I know you are supportive of a group being formed, at least just for the sake of a unity and centralized place for people to express their love and devotion to Geocaching I will do everything I can to pormote a group for us. Whether it be in a support role or organizer,or fearless leader, or contributor of files. I'm just happy to see everyone have such passion for a hobby that I love too. The Blue Quasar

This reply is similar to my reply in the "pinned" topic. I agree with the West Coast group in that Ontario should form the group. Keep it as Ontario. I don't hink Ontario is the Centre of the country, we just have the initial response situation. Again, Ontario is VERY big. This alone will be tough to get going, so if Logger and Ail is able to get something started then great. I know everyone has offered their talents of web design, etc. I am not trying to toot my own horn but I would gladly step up to be the co-ordinator or facilitator or however you want to term it. Everyone seems to want it to be started, I'm saying I'll start it. If Logger and Ail wants to talk to me about he knows how to call me. As for gm100guy, I detected from his post that he either has been in the Parks Ontario meetings, or has more of a role with gc.com than the regular cachers. If so, why oppose anyone forming a group? If not, ditto. I understand the idea that bringing attention to the governement at whatever level may have a negative consequence but lack of unity will show that we just don't care. We do, and more than is being shown. The Blue Quasar

Well I would like to think that I have read and re-read this and other similar threads about organization of a Geocaching group for 'self-protection' reasons. So, with that in mind I propose the following. Not that my voice has any more weight or would sway any powers that be. Cache Tech should be all means continue to speak with Parks Ontario and the like. I will agree that I am wondering why the actual geocachers don't seem to have any input to these discussions but since as a group we have not unified it seems appropriate. Then it seems to me that a group for Ontario should be formed. Canada is just far too big, in fact Ontario is probably too big but like many have said if there is a group then it can be fleshed out to fill a role. I however do not think that the group should be formed for political reasons or 'soap-boxing'. A group can easily be set up to just be informative and a contact point for any required discussion. If the group is formed and Parks Ontario or Cache-Tech or Bruce Trail Association or whomever wants to discuss the nature of our pasttime then Cache Tech can certainly direct them to us or contact us for support. I just don't see a reason to NOT form a group. There is a lot to be gained from the position of being unified. And there is nothing that says we have to start ironing out problems, let's just get our act together and everyone will be what we are capable of, what we plan to do, and how we will have a positive impact. Lastly, since 40+ states have an organization there must be a good reason for it, if only to have a place for people to take their devotion to Geocaching to what may be perceived as the next level. Let's be honest, Cache Tech is not going to say "Gang... you really need to get a group together to show that you are serious about your devotion" Even if we did get a group going and it turned out to be a waste of time, what have we really lost? Sorry for the length. The Blue Quasar

I have received word from "Logger and Ail" and they will be attending too. I have not heard from any other people I have sent the link too. Hmmmm, maybe that will make it easier for me to win?!?!? Naw, the more the merrier. As for 1Short and Python Admirer (sp), oh come on.... spending a day with the boyfriend out ranks caching with us old timers?!?!?! I think she should reconsider, after all just look at the caliber of people that should be there. How can a boyfriend even hope to compare??? The Blue Quasar

Heh heh heh, Bogey's might need an addition the way these Event Caches seem to be snowballing (Had to get the pun in before Flick). I will co-ordinate with the wife and probably drag my 'usual suspects' with me. So as for now I can unofficially submit that there will be 7 coming for our groups. I will try to get my single buddy a geo-date. The Blue Quasar

Glad to see that you did have some contact in person with Parks Ontario. I hope that they were open to the idea of allowing caching in the parks in the future. While in South Ontario this really only affects two locales (to my knowledge), I do hope that they will see Geocaching as a hobby and not as "more work for them". Perserverance and a positive approach in times like these is probably best. If they see us as mouthy and unco-operative, they will not work with us. All I ask is that if they do plan on removing caches that they contact us directly. It is easy enough to do, since each cache is registered to a local cacher. Thanks for the time, keep up the discussions please. The Blue Quasar (24 hidden / 83 found)

I mean Best scenery.......#13 - Throe Caution to the Wind And apparently I cannot learn to edit, and despite my every effort to put THROE, my fingers still typed THROW. Ah you knew anyways BQ There is a time and place for everything. It's called 'college'

I will have to say that my favourite was #10-End of the Road. This may have been because of the mistakes we made along the way. But if this question wasn't favourite then the following would hold true..... Best challenge.....#4 - Devil's Punchbowl Most frustrating...#7 - Dam that's Big! (two attempts, still needed help) Best scenery.......#13 - Throe Caution to the Wind But I dunno if it was because it was the last of the 14, the view of the lake, the surprise that it was in Toronto, but #10 thrilled me to no end. The Blue Quasar There is a time and place for everything. It's called 'college'

I assumed that the GHOST for virtual and locationless is because those types are no longer available... and therefore DEAD. As in they are no longer being approved. No sarcasm intended, if you read any it was merely a perception issue. Smile and the world wonders what you are up to. There is a time and place for everything. It's called 'college'

So the possible idea for the future is to have cache catagories with optional sub-catagories. I wish I could credit the person that said it, the idea of flags. As an example ----> Multicache icon (then sub icons for Virtual Cache, Offset and boat) So the seeker would know that it starts at a Virtual and you then go to the new location and you will need a boat to get there. I realise this is an extreme example. I guess I am just assuming a AAA/CAA kind of entry (like they use when describing a hotel or restaurant) [This message was edited by The Blue Quasar on October 21, 2003 at 11:28 AM.]

Thank you for clearing those concepts up for me. I understand must better now what makes a puzzle cache or a multi cache what they are. As for the offset, I attempted to find discussion of it as it's own type, but I am glad to see it is among the things been looked at. The Blue Quasar There is a time and place for everything. It's called 'college'

Hello all. I wish that there was a unique icon for the OFFSET cache idea. To me an OFFSET cache is a "one jump only" in that the co-ords listed lead to a VIRTUAL-ish spot that then takes you to the real physical cache by some kind of recalculation. However a MULTI cache involves going to 2 or more places to pick up info or micros that combine to reveal the cache co-ords. Or a culmination of a series of traditional caches. So, in my mind. OFFSET is within walking distance of the listed co-ords AND only one stop. Whereas MULTI may involve several stops and probably driving between them. This way people could tell ahead of time what they are looking at time-wise. As for the Puzzle Icon. I honestly don't see the point. I have a puzzle series, it still is a multi-cache no matter how I spin the idea. [8D] The Blue Quasar There is a time and place for everything. It's called 'college'

I have little of value to add here. While one can certainly say that Cache-Tech is making an effort, we also have to appreciate that "Ontario Parks" has jurisdiction over it's parklands. This could easily spread to Conservation Areas etc. if we are not careful. They haven't decided yet, let's let CT do what he/she can. If he/she wants our input he/she will ask. I would hope he/she would so that several individuals views can be expressed. All I ask is that people should be wary of what they say in an open forum. For every negative viewpoint someone brings up will be remembered and it takes a lot of positives to dilute that one comment. And we all know that TEXT is hard to get a feel from. As for the "increasing people visiting/walking off trail/fees/garbage removal etc" comments, more people may be a good thing only if they have a positive impact on the area or they could be adding the additional garbage that another geocacher ends up removing (a zero sum IMO), Fees are only really there to pay for park staff and prevent people from abusing the site, not to generate income for the government. And of course the trail should be observed at all times. Truth is that when any of us go looking for a cache we MUST stay on the trail till the last possible moment. Anyone that thinks that everyone takes a different route should look again next time they cache. There is a time and place for everything. It's called 'college'

I was hoping for a Watch List to follow the adventures of my fellow cachers. That way whenever they post a log or hide a cache it would show up in a Watch List, like Travel Bugs or Cache Logs do. Any thoughts? The Blue Quasar

How can I remove an archived cache that I placed? I have hidden 6, but it keeps saying I've hidden 7 since I had to archive one. [8D] The Blue Quasar