The Blue Quasar

What do I want OGA to do for me? Interesting... I wanted to provide enhanced .loc files. But sadly that idea was never going to become a reality. I accept that. Things don't always go our way. I wanted the province of Ontario divided up by municipalities so that the OGA could have a local contact person to handle any cache related issues, but the logistics of that were overwhelming. That idea has been altered into something slightly different. I wanted to provide a document for landowners or governement groups to have available to them so they understand the OGA's position on various issues. That is slowly coming. I wanted to provide parking co-ords and ratings of caches so that when people travel to new areas on Ontario they would know what to expect. I wanted pictures of cachers enjoying the hobby that really brought them here, and I'm sure one day that will come. I wanted everyone to be happy with the effort that OGA was making for them to hopefully improve their geocaching experience, and have additional support if they wanted it. I wanted to have a centralize OGA event, once a year. Donna G suggested that Lake Simcoe would be a central location and a camping idea might work well. Things like that take A LOT of work to set up. With all that I have to handle with OGA, work and most importantly my family I simply cannot do everything that everyone wants. I be honest in saying that my priorities are in order 1)... My family 2)... My work 3)... Going geocaching, including placing and finding caches 4)... OGA 5)... Being social with my friends, including volleyball, baseball and actually have a night out once in a while. So, I am providing as much time as I can. This is not a complaint, but I know that I am doing a lot to help develop OGA and all of those people on the contact list are doing a lot too. I enjoy it, and I think they do too. Some people have asked about progress, and honestly these things take time. We have made a lot of progress, more than I expected and if anyone wants to see anything added to OGA then I suggest they take it to the next step and write it out in full and submit it to myself, Keith Watson or Amazon Annie. We still don't have a "Board of Directors" or similar as there is no need. We openly discuss OGA every Wednesday night at 9 when Keith graciously allows us to on HIS chat group. The Blue Quasar

While this is the Ontario Parks forum area, there are reasons to mention the local CA's in this thread. First off, the local conservation authorities have shown interest in working with caching groups, specifically the OGA to develop geocache policies. This opportunity has yet to present itself with respect to Ontario Parks. I firmly agree that ONE policy is the desired outcome for all of Ontario. And this may be a lofty goal but perhaps after all of the policies are in place then we ca ncombine them all for province wide ratification. The OGA is just beginning the process of contacting the various CA's across some areas of Ontario. This will take time for numerous reasons, such as CA's time availability, the OGA's reps in those areas and of course compilation of information. This is also a reason why the OGA was set up with regional management since it is very unlikely that one person or a small group could cover all of Ontario. As cachers, most of us have occupations and geocaching is a hobby. To expect any individual to devote the number of man hours to talking to every group is unrealistic. Secondly, while there may be the perception that there is a hierarchy to the parks in Ontario, that simply is not the case. Ontario Parks has lands, local Conservation Authorities have lands, and regional and municipal territories have their lands. From what I have learned, one group does not answer to another and there is no central governing body for all parks in Ontario that theses groups ultimately answer to. So, to say that we should focus on Ontario Park first has not been effective. Several Conservation Authorities (Hamilton, Niagara, Otonabee, and others) have contacted local cachers or have been approached. All have shown a desire to meet and work out geocaching policies. That is a positive first step and that is the direction that the OGA will take. So, I am quite content to let Cache-Tech continue to be the spokesperson to Ontario Parks for geocaching.com and the OGA will develop a working relationship with the various local Conservation Authorities. However, the OGA needs time to develop and get all the ideas in place, and time to work with CA's. No need to rush into too many meeting and get over our heads, or else the situation we are in with Ontario Parks may spread to other levels of land owners. The Blue Quasar

I have read the document and there are many items in it that are well written and thought out. If rjo is willing to help us continue to develop our guidelines we would welcome him with open arms. I personally do not pay any attention to how many caches someone has found, or hidden or how long they have been a geocacher. None of those items have much if any impact on how a person can create or support ideas about good geocaching policies. Establishing policies with regional Conservation Authorities is our primary concern right now. This has been started with the Hamilton Conservation Authority, and is about to be followed with the Niagara Penisula Conservation Authority. These two CA's are semi-linked and the OGA would prefer to establish a single policy across Ontario. This is a big step, and must be handled professionally and completely, before we can move on to groups such as schools or scouts. While many people have taken offence to statements made by other cachers, some with less practical experience, from the meeting with the HCA I have learned that these people have valid points and concerns. Public Land only means that public taxes pay for it's upkeep and it does not mean the public has permission to do anything it wants. Many activities are currently not allowed, and some are regulated. So, while it is great that rjo is bringing his/her experience and background to geocaching, I hope that the OGA can have his/her services to work together as a unified group. Please let me know at thebluequasar@cogeco.ca if you would like to meld in with the OGA and how you would like to contribute. Either way.... I hope that rjo enjoys geocaching as much as I do. The Blue Quasar

One can easily see why Ontario Parks is not allowing geocaching within their properties. The above statements certainly show valid concerns and based upon what they have seen, if I was in their place I wouldn't allow it to continue either. I refer to the hint statements of digging. Wording is everything, and the slightest suggestion of inappropriate action would cause a negative response. Cachers MUST consider the wording they use when submitting a cache description. I think there are few key points that should be addressed, and Ontario Parks statements at the Sportsman's Show show this to be true. 1 - Purposely leaving something behind constitutes littering and won't be tolerated. Naturally, and this is why cachers are REQUIRED to obtain permission to hide a cache. This is why there HAS to be a registration of caches with the park superintendent. Cache Tech has covered off the rest of their concerns in the above message, but this makes it all the more important to work with Ontario Parks to develop positive caching policies. And it appears we have to recover from a slightly negative position as there is already a perception about geocaching and geocachers in particular. Hopefully there has just been a misunderstanding and communication was not properly initiated on both sides. Let's hope that we can re-establish a new connection with Ontario Parks that will allow us to enjoy their lands like other groups do. The Blue Quasar

On Mar 18th members of the OGA in Hamilton met with the Hamilton Conservation Authority. This initial meeting went very well and the HCA will be working on policies to allow geocaching to take place on their lands. As we all know, one of the founding principals of geocaching is to receive permission to place a cache on land from the owners of that land. The HCA is drafting an 'Application to place a cache' style form for any future cache placements. It was my impression that all of the policies should be worked out and in place for a great summer of caching. The HCA came into the meeting very open and inquisitive. I am happy to say we had a very positive first contact and look forward to developing this arrangement. Until such time as this policy is in place, the HCA has requested that no new caches be approved within HCA lands and they do not see any reason to remove any caches that are already in place. Cache-Tech has been informed of this temporary decision. I am sorry if anyone feels that our meeting has had a negative impact on geocaching, but this step was necessary to ensure the continued use of HCA lands in the future. This approach shows the HCA that we would like to work with them and that drastic steps or outright banning is not needed. The HCA also has stated that they expect that they will be assiting us with support from their staff when the new policies are in place. Again, in keeping with my promise to keep everyone aware of discussions with land owners and managers, this forum post is being placed to that end. The Blue Quasar

Announcing a new addition to the OGA web site. There is a new page that allows you to search for nearest caches based on the city or town of your choosing. The link for that is http://66.207.113.44/oga/towns.asp This new feature was initiated by White Owl and after they provided ALL of the co-ordinates of EVERY town in Ontario, Keith Watson our awesome web designer laid out the the info in a useful way and included links to local maps and the nearest caches from that point. This tool will be very useful for people going on vacation or keeping informed about caches near the towns they are interested in. I encourage everyone to check it out and try some towns, then drive and experience some new caches! The Blue Quasar

As requested by several people, I am updating my previously confused statements regarding the OGA Logo. The Terms of Use on the OGA Web site covers all use of the logo, as Keith Watson has also said above. The link to that is http://66.207.113.44/oga/terms_of_use.asp The Blue Quasar

So far there are three OGA - CITO events placed on Geocaching.com To present ourselves as a unified group the format for any Ontario CITO events that are being put together by OGA members, or those that wish to join the OGA effort should be like this example "OGA - CITO - Toronto" where there are spaces on either side of the hyphens and OGA and CITO are all-caps and the area is first-letter-capped. If you have a CITO event posted already and would like it to be a part of the OGA CITO's please be sure to let me know and submit or edit the name as suggested. If you access the geocaching.com's "Hide and seek a cache" page and search for "OGA - CITO" it will list all of them. The Blue Quasar Hoping to see quite a few more.... some people that I know are working on their CITO events are "Bear & Ducky" for Hamilton, "Trimbles Trek" for Guelph, "Cachengrab" for Bellville, "Algonquin Bound" for Burlington (possibly) and there are a few other that I want to touch base with as well to see if they were interested.

Oops, well it appears that I have to dig myself back out of a bit of a hole. The page that Keith Watson and White Owl have been building is not finished yet, the list of towns is complete to the end of Q towns. So when that is completed I'm sure the page will be available. But the idea by White Owl was to make available a listing of all the towns in Ontario and have the GPS co-ordinates for them. Keith has added a few links like to the map of the town and also nearby caches. There is also a contact person for each, but sadly they all say me right now. The Blue Quasar

With the rapid approach of spring and the upcoming CITO events being organized across Ontario I was wondering how any discussions with Parks Ontario have progressed. I realize that they have many on-going issues to look into but I still have difficulty in accepting the "No new cache approval" idea. Do they have a timeline in place? Do they wish to meet with our side? If so, when? Why do they feel Geocaching has more liability than any other use of their parks? What prevention steps need to be in place to allow us access to their parks for geocaching? I understand that they have the final say over the use of their lands, and we must abide by their decision. But currently we have not seen any supporting reasons for their decision or an official release to detail their concerns. I think it is reasonable to have this matter dealt with in an efficient manner and a decision should be made before the assumed "geocache season" for 2004 begins. The parks, and it's just my perspective, must be planning their goals and such for 2004 now. We should be working with them now so things are ready for the warmer weather. Cache-Tech.... how can we as geocachers, OGA, or yourself get talks started? They seem to have stalled ever since they closed the door to us. The Blue Quasar

As was stated by Trimbles Trek in the OGA - CITO thread.... Revision 6e is the FINAL revision. So with that I am saying, as the current Administrator of the OGA.... This version shall not be altered without the written consent of Trimbles Trek AND the Administrator the OGA. Use of this Logo for personal reasons, and not for commercial or other profit generation is NOT permitted. Use of any previous version of an approved OGA logo should be discontinued and updated to reflect the current and only supported OGA logo. That being Revison 6e. The Blue Quasar

Great to see you coming forward RJO, and as you may be able to tell from our web page we are still in the developement phase. Our web guru is doing a great job especially with all of the input he is receiving from various people within the OGA. Naturally we are not in a position to align ourselves with any provincial political party and the current situation regarding Ontario Parks is being handled by Cache-Tech. C-T will hopefully invite us to participate in future discussions if and when they occur. But any support you would like to give the OGA as a member would be fantastic. Be it organizing a CITO event for our area or helping prepare guidelines in addition to the ones we already have, or other areas that we haven't thought of. Case in point, White Owl came up with a very effective TOWNS idea that has received huge raves! So any additional content would be appreciated. The Blue Quasar

Mine has been approved too, and rather quickly too. OGA - CITO - Niagara http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=121853 I don't know how to do that html stuff to make mine look cool like Donna did. The Blue Quasar

I have submitted my CITO event for April 17th and it is pending approval from Cache Tech. I have had to make a change to the naming structure as follows OGA - CITO - Niagara The change is that there are spaces on either side of the hyphens. This was done to accommodate the geocaching.com search page for "hide and seek a cache". This way people can search for OGA or CITO and the list of all caches will appear. A clean planet is a happy planet..... and that is something I'd like to see. The Blue Quasar

Cachengrab.... that was an outstanding letter you wrote. I commend you on how thorough you were. Please allow me to spin it back in a positive way. You have informed them about your intentions and those of the OGA. You have not requested any resourses from them either. As an environmentally motivated group, you will be seen as a positive effort and the union and/or city, and it is unlikely that they would, may object to your plan to clean up a public area. However that would not be in their best interest. I believe you were merely providing information of what was planned, and not necessarily seeking approval. As it is a public area, you should not need permission to pick up trash. It is more likely that the city cannot say "Yes, clean up the area" as this would be a union job. But if they say nothing and you do it, it is unlikely anyone wouls complain. The Blue Quasar

Here is my short list.... 1812 on the Niagara Parkway: Part 1 http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...7-9B7953F17770} The Battle of Queenston Heights http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...e7-f91aa6f98457 Passport to Niagara http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=83972 Welland Canal Tour http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...B-6170535F7D74} BooTz's Bounty http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...D-06AC3BB49EF6} Three by Flick are all fun, long and educational with lots of sites to see. Mine, well I think it fun and unique and BooT'z is a nice long walk that follows the Niagara River I assumed that when you said "trip to Niagara" you meant that you would be by the Falls, and these are all within 20 minutes of the Falls There is also a Niagara Falls Virtual http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...fa-191cf2991154 The Blue Quasar

I don't think that the "pirates of the cacheribbean" idea is a good enough justification to allow everyone or the owner to see who is watch a cache. That reason, like many have said, would just lead to abuse and tension. I do however think that "I'm curious" is a valid reason, as this is the only motivation for watching a cache in the first place. "I'm curious who will be the first finder", "I'm curious if so-an-so has found it", "I'm curious if anything has happend since I went to it", "I'm curious if it has been changed at all" Basically any reason for watching a cache can be justified under the "I'm curious" banner. The same should apply to the watch list itself. Having the "x number of people are watching this cache" is inviting that curiousity, and if people are afraid of getting emails because they are watching it Groundspeak already has policy in place to deal with abuse. I took the time to read all of the recommended forum posts, and I have yet to find a solid reason to not allow the watch list to be public and also few reasons to have it available. Hiding your actions will always garner the response of "Why don't you want us to know you watching a cache?" That's just human nature to be suspicious. It's also human nature to be curious, especially when it comes to people watching you. I don't really care if they ever implement the idea of allowing cache owners to see who is watching their cache, or everyone to see the list. I would like to see it, but my world won't end if they don't add it in. My world is about hiding and seeking caches, the rest is bonus footage! The Blue Quasar http://66.207.113.44/oga/

What would you need in the way of numbers for the event Hard Oiler? I wonder how many we should get printed up for GNASHERS02. It seems to me that a PAYPAL thing might be best for the OGA site, that way everything is tracked. I know I might live to regret this, but here goes..... What colour(s) should the shirts be available in? Just white? Long and short sleeve, or just short. Do we want just T's for now, or should we think about sweat shirts too? I have a place that can do this stuff, but I need to look into it. I'll try to do that tomorrow. The Blue Quasar

Actually I don't agree with the post I put up, it is there to make a point. I am flattered to have people watching my caches. I like to think they watch my caches because they LIKE my caches. The point I was making is about privacy. Those that watch caches have privacy of their lurking. Those that post finds do not have that luxury. As an owner of a cache, I should know who is watching my cache. I do not see harm in that. I would never think someone watching my cache is doing so for negative reasons. So again, if you missed my point earlier, it is just if this is open for all to see, then ALL of it should be open for all to see. The Blue Quasar P.S. So in reply... not paranoid, just observant of perceptions.

Does anyone have any objections to the following ideas before I post them in places other than the geocaching.com forum. ----Raising funds to purchase a domain name for the OGA web site (remember I am very unclear on this aspect) ----Production of OGA T-shirts for sale through the OGA web site, and also at the CITO events across Ontario and possibly event caches like GNASHERS or GAGAFAP or similar that are hosted by people working with OGA Again, I repeat that OGA is NOT FOR PROFIT, and any such income would be channeled back into the geocaching community. I have no interest in turning the OGA into a cash enterprise. OGA is for CACHE, not CASH! The Blue Quasar

CITO updates (as far as I know) Bear and Ducky have had contact with HCA regarding a CITO event for Hamilton The Blue Quasar has requested discussion with Niagara Parks about a CITO event Donna G has also started her work on her CITO event The St. Catharines Standard will be attending the event cache in Beamsville on 01 May to cover the event and hear about the CITO success stories that will be reported on from across Ontario. Looking for more people and areas and feedback, let build this up and show the geocaching community how we can clean up! The Blue Quasar

Hurrah for DEER BAIT! First cache I found, first successful cache in Ontario, still alive (thanks to Flick's daughter kdkk17). And in one of the best parks in Ontario, that being Short Hills. Just my opinion and yours may vary. If you wanna argue the fact, let's do it over dinner. I am darned proud to say that I was very lucky to have DEER BAIT as my first ever cache. But however you feel about caching, at least we have the best area for caching... that being CANADA. Okay, back to your regular rants in the other discussion groups. The Blue Quasar

Since several people have brought up the idea that they can watch a cache with complete secrecy, then I pose this question... Why should you be allowed to watch my cache? It's MY cache and Geocaching.com is hosting it. You do not have my permission to watch my cache unless you ask me. Why should I allow you to? There is no reason to watch my cache unless you like my caches and therefore would have no reason to not tell me you are watching it. View my cache as much as you like, but placing a 'proverbial web tap' on my cache page is a violation of my privacy. Besides, maybe the people that are finding my caches don't like you monitoring their activities. That's all the more reason that I as the cache owner should protect THEIR privacy. They at least are telling me that they found my cache, what gives you the right to know that? You want to know, then visit my cache page and read the logs yourself. Stop wasting bandwidth and bogging down the geocaching.com servers with your idle peeping Tom activities. Not nice to have your options limited is it? Just perspective from yet another different angle! The Blue Quasar

This Wednesday night, if Keith Watson is fine with this, I have a few OGA topics to bring forward for open discussion. Specifically... I've received Email back from Geocaching.com about .loc files and also from EasyGPS about post .loc files. Basically, EasyGPS said (paraphrasing follows) "I fully approve of anyone posting .loc files created wiht EasyGPS. However, you may wish to use .gpx files since this is an open source file format, as .loc files will be discontinued in future versions of EasyGPS. The referrence to copyright is a carry over from the early days when Topografix was posting files and has never been taken out, ignore it." I have the exact email still, and once a resolution is made I will forward it as required to Keith Watson and any other interested party that requests it. However... Geocaching.com has stated that we can post .loc files but they cannot contain any co-ordinate data. So basically all the info would be there but you couldn't transfer it to your GPS for use. So we need to decide if we still want to catalogue all of the Ontario Caches without co-ordinates, in one of any number of ways like spreadsheets or a database, a text file, or still with a loc file or gpx file without co-ordinates. Or just ditch that idea and come up with something new and radical. There is an iron in the fire already that has been developed by White Owl and Keith Watson, but I still would like a resource for people wanting to have better local cache info at a glance, like a spreadsheet. And we need to discuss an official web site, any additions to what we have, merchandise, how to get funds to operate the web space, the upcoming CITO events and maybe even something fun. Whew.... see what happens when I'm sick for a week? The Blue Quasar

I have some minimal contact with them as well. I received info regarding the funding that they received from the government to promote Northern Ontario Tourism. Once I heard that I felt that they might not be a good contact for OGA, only because I didn't want to have a conflict of interest. Also I didn't want the OGA to appear as coming in with our hands out, as that is not the case. OGA has never been designed to receive government grants or anything similar. But I am sure they are legitimate since they have support of a few government agencies and their mandate is clear. I too have had the semi-spam style email, but I think that calling it full blown spam would be over reacting. They may have a form letter, and I applaud them that they contact cachers they come across that could provide them with contact to draw people northward. The Blue Quasar (You'll never know if you don't go!)