BlueDamsel

The topic is PN-40s vs 60CSx, and since the OP said he'd consider other units, my post addressed exactly that. Also, the OP requested friendly responses. Are you on topic in this regard? You get very defensive when some folks disagree with the "holy Delorme" even when it doesn't provide some of the features the OP requested. I was not referring to just you in my posts... I was referring to everyone who is not completely objective about their comments or seems to have a company agenda. There are a lot of posters of this type on these forums. And yes, I know the topic, having looked at every unit described thus far in this thread when I was deciding on a purchase. I am simply describing to the OP the reasons I did not buy the unit IN THE TOPIC and why I felt some others might be a better choice for him to fit his criteria. Regarding promised updates, I would not have purchased a Garmin either if they promised Mac support or paperless caching but didn't include it now. It has nothing to do with Garmin, or Delorme for that matter, as a company. It has everything to do with what I was looking for in a device and which unit currently had it. I didn't choose a 60CSx either, because the paperless functions would have required me to go through third party software, which becomes problematic on a Macintosh. Similarly, having to use Topo 7 to get stuff on a Delorme is a problem for the same reason if it is not fully Mac-functional. One of the things I love about the Oregon, and a huge reason for buying it, is I don't need ANYONE'S software, Garmin or third-party, to get cache information onto my GPSr. As long as I have the USB cable, which I keep in my caching bag, I can hook up to any computer, anywhere, and get the .gpx files I need onto my GPSr. This was huge for me. It might not matter to some people (there are folks that love GSAK, no matter what device they are using), but this mattered to me. As far as price, there are people who have been able to purchase a 60CSx for $159-$229 recently on Amazon. I paid less than $350 for my Oregon including all the maps that are currently on it. List price means nothing. I'm really glad you're happy with your Delorme, and if the OP decides it's the unit for him, happy trails! But what works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone, and getting OFF TOPIC by getting on someone's case because they prefer a larger screen really isn't helpful to anyone, especially when this is a feature that matters to some people. No hard feelings - happy caching. BlueDamsel

Full paperless geocaching: Garmin, check. Delorme, maybe? and when? Support for Mac now: Garmin, check. Delorme... maybe? and when? I would never, ever buy a device on the future promise of software or functionality. You have to buy a product that works NOW for what you use it for NOW. If you buy on the promise of future releases, you may be waiting years for that upgrade, which when and if you ever receive it, may not function as you had hoped. It is a foolish waste of money to buy a device because they promise someday it will be paperless, but meanwhile, you've now had to spend X amount for a PDA or phone or whatever device you need to get you by until your GPSr goes paperless. So where's the savings? And let me add here, if you haven't given touch screens a chance because you think they are too fragile, think again. Every touch screen device I have ever purchased (others besides Garmin) has worked as advertised and taken a fair amount of abuse. The Garmin is no exception. The Oregon housing is also built up around the touchscreen as added protection. I've already given this GPS a few bangs and thumps and have seen no problems so far. And don't dismiss it as whiz bang.... I can guarantee you I can find a location on a touchscreen much much faster than you will ever be able to with button scrolling. I know, because I've had button-operated GPSrs. They work, but they are awkward compared to a touchscreen. You see a cache along your current route you want to go to instead of the current one? Touch it and you're there. You can't get easier than that. I agree with other posters who like bigger screens. It's one of the reasons I bought the Oregon and why I bought a digital camera with the biggest view screen I can find, why I prefer watching videos on an iPod Classic instead of a Nano, and why I have two full-size "cinema format" monitors on my graphic design computer setup at work instead of one normal sized screen. To dismiss screen size out of hand is ridiculous. It really does matter to some people, in the same way that a dimly lit screen matters to some people and not to others. The big screen of the Oregon is really nice when trying to zero into an area for caching in on the road, and I can say I've had absolutely no problems reading my Oregon's screen both indoors and outdoors at night, in the morning, at dusk, even in full sun. But that's me. And because other people might have problems with this and feel differently than I do, it behooves them to see any unit they are considering turned on, outdoors. It's what I did, so I could satisfy myself that I would be happy with what I was buying. The Oregon may or may not be more expensive than the Delorme depending on which of either model you get. But, it has paperless caching with field notes NOW, Mac support NOW, and I love the functionality of the touchscreen. To me, these extras are worth the cost, saving me time and money in the long run, and something I am getting full use out of. I have been using this device daily since I purchased it and am happy with the navigational routing, the topo maps, the geocaching features and the other functions of the device. And I am not surprised at this. I did my homework, asked a lot of folks questions, looked at all the models from all manufacturers in the stores and compared them online, and narrowed it down to a couple of models I was interested in and went from there. I totally agree that Delorme makes a good product. But there are some on this forum who seem to think that Garmin-bashing (or bashing of any manufacturer) is doing a service to people who are really looking for the best GPS for THEM and are willing to consider all devices that might fit their needs. So it serves to really just speak about what you know on your device and let folks decide for themselves what is important to them. The things here I talk about were things that made a difference to ME in my purchase and have been discussed here, which is why I'm even bringing this up. Some may love the special features that Delorme offers, if so, they should buy them. However, for those looking for some of the features I've mentioned above, Delorme may be a disappointment, and is why I didn't buy one. It is a perfectly fine device in many ways... it just didn't fit the uses I needed it for. I am a happy Garmin owner, and for good reasons. BlueDamsel

You can both sign the log inside the cache, as well as each posting their own Found log to their own online account. This is pretty accepted practice for folks who cache in groups. You both searched. You both helped find. Both can, and should sign, if they want to. BlueDamsel

Wow. I wish more people would post stuff like this. No flaming, no backbiting. Just a nice story about a nice day geocaching. Who knew?????

This would only also work if the host were as cute as Mike Rowe

Agreed with Tequila here. The Oregon is a geocaching-specific kind of GPS. Still does all those outdoor activities well, but it is heavily programmed to appeal to geocachers. Unless you're doing lots of that, the features built for it are probably wasted. If I wasn't doing so much geocaching, I'd have bought a 60CSx too. BD

The Oregon is very Mac friendly. I've had no problem doing with it what I need to do and I'm using a Mac. With the addition of City Nav NT, it's great on the road (although it doesn't talk to you, but does signal with a beep). Very accurate, better than my last 2 units. Total price, under $400 if you get the OR400 without City Nav NT (has topos), or the OR300 with City Nav NT (does not have topos, but can be added later). Custom POIs can be added to either unit. Yes, the screen is more dim than other GPSr units available, but with a couple of adjustments and using NiMHs for good battery life, I've had NO trouble reading it in any lighting condition (and I'm nearly 50 and wear bifocals). I've been happy with my Oregon, and I believe it is hands-down the best "geocaching" specific GPSr out there. BlueDamsel

Yes, you can get the Oregon 300 and put the topos you want on it. It's cheaper than the OR400 to account for not having the topos preinstalled. That's the one I use, actually, but I wish now I'd gotten the one with maps already on it. It's not a huge deal as I don't need topos that often (and I always take paper maps, which don't need batteries), but... still... Regarding customer support, I have always had excellent customer support with all three Garmins I have owned. Also, all my older Garmins still run well, and I still use them as backup devices to my Oregon. One of them is the orginal little yellow Etrex, and is around 9 years old. (Delorme, while I'm sure is a fine company, is not the only one where you will find good customer service, as some posters here would like you to believe. I think Delorme makes a good product. I looked at them when I was shopping. I narrowed it down to Garmin because I liked the Garmins better in several categories than either Delorme or Magellan's units. Personal preference!) Plus, the Garmins support Mac computers very thoroughly, which is a huge consideration for me, as I have been on a Mac since the original Lisas came out. My two cents, BlueDamsel

This is a typical log for me. This one is from GCGVAY, Shorelands Tower, a cache in a beautiful wetlands preserve. Slender cattails with their cottoned crowns Bending gently down in autumn's heat Shading curlews hidden in tufted downs That run where grass and wetland meet Deep in the golden tangled reeds That spring like spearheads from the wet Hop frog and cricket; and call sight unseen Snowy gull, gray plover, wading avocet Amber and chestnut, rust and gold The warm moss green of secret ponds These are the colors of a year turned old Then white snow will dust these summer fronds "In all things in nature, there is something of the marvelous" - Aristotle This log took me 15 minutes to write. The quote below the poem was written on the entrance sign to the wetlands area, which I copied down into my notebook as I left, along with snippets of visuals like "tufted downs" or the names of birds or plants I saw there. I usually get an inspiration from each cache, either from the name of the cache, the location, or something that happened during my cache hunt. Usually, if I have nothing else to say, I can come up with a couplet or a four-line rhymer or a haiku, but even on nanos under lamp post skirts, I write poems for nearly every cache I seek. I enjoy them, because I enjoy writing. They aren't necessarily or usually good poems, but even as bad as they are, they seem to please the cache owners (I get lots of emails), and they exercise my mind and serve as a diary of where I went and what I saw. How can I lose? BlueDamsel

Whoo boy, this is a question that gets asked about once a week in this forum. I suggest you do a search of the forum on the above three models and read all the threads to get the complete scoop. You will have different feedback from nearly everyone, and folks who will also jump in and tell you to get some other brand as well! If you are set on Garmin: All three of the units you describe can handle City Nav NT software, which will give you everything you need for "in your car" route-following. All three devices also can handle topo maps and some come with them pre-installed. I suggest if you have the option to get a unit with topos installed, do it. I didn't, and wish I had. You can still buy them aftermarket and install via a micro SD card or through a DVD/computer setup, but, the devices that have them pre-installed already have the memory to handle them and don't need the SD card for it, leaving your card slot open for other uses. Be aware that because of the lock codes on the topos, you will only be allowed to use Garmin's topos on the device you bought them for - one topo per unit. If you buy separately after purchase, get them on DVD, as there is more functionality available with planning your trips, etc. on your computer with the DVD maps. You cannot do that with the pre-installed MicroSD cards. I think most people will tell you, of the three, the 60CSx will be your best bet for the uses you describe. It is probably Garmin's best all-around GPS in terms of functionality and features. I had one sent out, and liked it, but chose another device because the other fit my end use better. I use an Oregon but as it's a geocaching-oriented gps, those features may or may not be useful to you. However, I also hunt and fish, and it still works great and has the features needed for those activities. I bought it because I geocache 2-3 times a week, and I am hunting/fishing maybe once/twice a month in season. So, my primary usage dictated that choice. So far, I have been extremely happy with it. I am a sucker for touchscreen devices, and this one is really nice. The touchscreen works well even with gloves on. One drawback for some people with the Oregon is the dim screen. After following all suggestions to get around this as found on this forum, I've decided the dim screen issue isn't an issue at all. I get good readability and decent battery life from my unit. People have reported problems with the Colorados. I don't know if the latest models are fixed or not. I think the general consensus will be to stick with 60CSx or Oregon, but... there are people who have the Colorados and love them. If you have some locals in your area with the above devices, see if they will take you out for an afternoon and let you see how they work. Only you know if you like something, and sometimes it takes some use to figure out what annoys you or what you wish you had. Lastly, since your wife is going all out for this big present (I have a 50th BD coming up, and I hope my hubby turns out to be as generous!), consider yourself a lucky guy and HAVE FUN SHOPPING. BlueDamsel

Hmmmm.... as a shotgun shooter.... sounds like some leftovers from hunting season that a hunter didn't pick up (they should have). Unless you were there during hunting season, I doubt there was any danger. And even if you were there IN hunting season, shotgun shells only have an effective range of about 60 yards, so the danger factor was still probably pretty low. While being out in the woods most of the year is usually quite safe, going during hunting season requires extra caution (blaze orange is a good idea), just as having knowlege of the local flora and fauna (is it a bear, or mountain lion area? Is the terrain steep, rocky? Are there cliffs? Are the trails well marked?) It sounds to me like your comfort level is NOT caching out in the woods. Shotgun shells laying on the ground, in and of themselves, are not a reason to panic. City caching might be more your bag. I do both. The above is just another reason to research the cache you are looking for before you head out. Know before you go. BlueDamsel

When I said Legend, the HCX would have been the one I was referring to as far as purchasing currently, since it's a current model. Briansnat is correct (and thank you for clearing that up), don't buy an old model Legend which were just called "Legend" - you would want to get the one with the HCX suffix. Sorry to confuse you.... my bad. And yes, the Venture HC is a good recommendation for someone with not a lot of money to spend. (I do wish Garmin would give their units more differentiating names.... for example, the Legend and LegendHCX, also 60CS and the 60CSx, with hugely different price points right now... one is the old model and one is the newer model, but you forget about that "x" and you are getting something really different!)

I'd second the Legend suggestion if price is a factor. I had a Garmin Legend (in fact, two separate Garmins) for 8 years and they worked like horses. They are both still working. The Legend is also a lower price point and will do anything geocaching you need to do. I currently use a Garmin Oregon and this thing is THE BOMB for geocaching (don't know how I ever found caches without it before) but it is probably a bit out of your price range. It is built specifically for geocachers and will show 95% of the information on the Groundspeak cache page including the last five logs, with no additional work on your part (you don't have to go through third party software). To load the caches, you just drag and drop your GPX file onto the unit like a thumb drive... no buttons to push, no program to open. Direct from geocaching.com to the unit. It has a very intuitive interface, easy to load with caches, and if you like touchscreens, you will love this. I have City Nav NT software on it, so yes, it does road routing like a regular "auto" gps. You can hike, hunt, and fish with it, just like any other GPS. I have not found anything I do not like about it, so far. There is both Mac and PC software for it, and that's something that cannot be said about very many GPS models out there. I HAVE to have something compatible with my Mac. However, these are the models I am familiar with. I'd agree with other posters who suggest you check out several models and brands at the local sporting goods store so you can see what they each do. Better yet, contact a local geocacher in your area who has the models you're interested in and ask to go with them for a day of caching so you can see how each one works! There are users on this board that are pro-Garmin, some pro-Magellan, some pro-Delorme and they are only going to be able to talk to you about what they know (me included). Some are pretty adamant in their home "camp" and are not going to recommend other models. When I went looking for my last GPS, I did a lot of online research, plus looked at what people were writing on the boards about each model... positive comments, complaints, etc. I did a LOT of shopping and looked at most brands. I chose another Garmin because it fit what I was going to use it for. You will need to ask yourself honest questions about your end usage, so you get the GPS that fits YOU best. However, I will say this: you get what you pay for... and my last GPS, although expensive, has added so much positive aspects to my geocaching that it was WELL worth the extra money spent on it. So figure out your absolute top dollar you are willing to spend and get the best GPS bells-and-whistles you can find for that price. BlueDamsel (And yes, right now I'm loyal to Garmin simply because I've had three Garmins that have worked beautifully and done what I've needed them to do. They are a popular brand and because of this, there is a lot of support for them so they integrate seamlessly with a lot of third party stuff. They are good, good GPSrs and will give you great service for the money.)

Have to say, just got a zagg for my cell phone, and I'm not crazy about the shiny finish of the protector. I think this would work so much better, and be more attractive, if it had a little bit of a matte finish so it didn't show up so many scuffs and bumps and nicks. Bleah. Not good. Plus, installing it was a pain. I am still waiting for the imperfections to "even out", as they claim they will. I liked the nice matte protectors my previous cell phone had, much much much better. My two cents, BlueDamsel

I'd agree with this. It's not annoying, but there is that split second lag.

I have a Ram-a-Can II and love it. However, instead of the Garmin brand car charger cord, I suggest you try these guys: igo.com They make a car charger/wall charger/combo pack for around $35 that has a retractable cord (I LOVE this in the car) and what's good about it is that it uses changeable tips, so if you have a cell phone/gps/iPod you all need to charge in the car, you just take the three tips with you instead of three bulky car cords. You can also get a little battery pack that uses AA batts that takes the same tips. I really like these systems, and the car cord tip does NOT have the funky angle that the Garmin car charger does. It seems to work great with my Oregon! I drive a Subaru Forester, so my cup holder is right up at elbow level, which makes the GPS exactly high enough to use with the Ram, plus I can see the port to get the cord plugged in easily. I can get that GPS exactly the right distance for using without it being distracting. However, other cars with lower cup holders might not be as well suited to this setup. Hope this helps, BlueDamsel

I'm totally Mac. I've been using a Garmin Oregon very successfully with my Mac for about a month now (had a Legend and original yellow Etrex the past 8 years). I have found that I don't even much use the Garmin Mac software for it, although some people swear by the Mac programs. What is nice about the Oregon, is that you don't really need third party software for uploading a lot of things... you just drag and drop it much like a thumb drive. And you can put City Nav NT into it either through the software and DVD, or by just dropping in a micro SD card. And yes, it does great car navigation, although with no sound except a warning beep (it doesn't talk to you). However, the Oregon is really a geocaching-oriented GPS. If you're used to your 60CS, why not upgrade to a 60CSx with the micro SD card? Most people you ask will tell you to get one or the other of the units I have mentioned, but the 60CSx probably has the slight edge if you use the GPS primarily for hunting, fishing, hiking and the like. I hunt and fish too - a lot. The Oregon works great for what I need it for. Another two cents, BlueDamsel

Too bad, I was just in Japan last fall, and not a single cache near Kochi, where my husband was working! I had my GPSr, cache bag, everything... not a cache to go to! Keep hiding them, eventually it will catch on. Recently on these forums there was someone asking about caches in Japan and where to get maps!

MacCaching will do this. macaching.com

It depends on the cache! One of the best caches I ever went to was a cache placed by relatives of a young man who had enjoyed caching but had passed away. The cache page was a tribute to this person and was very clear that the cache was right near the headstone so you knew approximately where to look and didn't feel as if you were defacing anything. The cache page said that the family would be comforted by reading the stories of people who had taken the time to visit this memorial cache and record their thoughts. It was done in a completely respectful manner, and when I went there, I got a real sense of this person... there was an extra layer of enjoyment in finding this cache that I had never expected. Likewise, caches near old cemeteries are chances to view history that other means would never bring to you... as long as the caches are placed with respect and care, do not deface the resting place and take pains to preserve the location, I have no problem with these. It is always interesting visiting these types of caches. An uninspired nano on a random headstone, however, with no backstory or placed in a way that seems disrespectful to the people resting there.... forget it. Trust your judgement when searching, and you'll be OK.

Even as someone who caches completely alone, sometimes I will find more than one item I want to trade in a cache... this is especially true if there are geocoins or travelers on the cache listing, because I enjoy collecting coin icons. I have no problems trading out two or more items unless the cache owner specifically asks finders not to this. If it is multiple coins I want to take, I almost always leave the same number of coins in the cache, so that others coming after me won't be disappointed to find it cleaned out when they were expecting coins to be there. Basically, I also practice as the others have said, that is, I trade "up" - leave the cache in a condition I would enjoy finding as the next cacher on the trail. Don't clean the cache out of "good" items, leave as many items as you take, try to trade quality items into the cache so it remains fun to find for everyone, and be willing to occasionally help "restock" a cache that needs a little loving care.

This poster is correct, experience will help you find caches more easily down the road... but... It doesn't matter if you have 50, 500, or 5000 finds, you will still have one of those caches which for some reason, you just can't see, when others can. It's part of the game, or part of growing old, or something If you accept that DNFs are a critical part of the sport, and can actually be as fun as finding (some of the best caches I've searched for have been DNFs at one point or another) then you will enjoy geocaching a whole lot more.

I think it's OK to wait this long, especially if you can really move it to a location that fits the coin owner's plans for his traveler, but... it would be a courtesy to shoot the owner an email and let him know what you intend to do so he isn't worrying his coin got stolen. I've held onto coins for more than a month... sometimes things crop up and you can't get out caching as much as you'd like... but a courtesy email usually solves any hard feelings with the owner.

You can take as many items as you like if you replace them all with like items Trade as if it were what you would like to find if you were the next person coming along to find the cache - in other words, leave the cache in as good or better condition than when you found it. While most of the time I have a Big Bag O' Caching Swag I usually can pull trade items from, when minimalist caching, I customarily have an assortment of nice lapel pins which are good all purpose trades because they fit in all containers except nano caches. I quite often leave one even if I take nothing and especially when the cache needs "help". On reading subsequent logs, I always find that someone took my pin... people seem to enjoy finding and collecting them.

I just got back from a weekend trip to Idaho, and with multiple car shutoffs with Oregon 300 connected, I never experienced this problem as you describe. I am using rechargeable NiMH's. Actually, I've noticed very little that's changed, except the battery meter reads a lot better and the profile switch bug is fixed.