DazeDnFamily

And, your cache sense should be telling you that since you are zeroing out on a large metal object, the cache is likely on a magnet, stuck somewhere on the outside of it. I've seen a couple where the cache was inside a utility box. But, again, cache sense quickly showed me that the box wasn't connected to anything. I don't care where the cache is. You're better off to take a sec, and look around, to keep yourself safe. Later!

I suppose common sense is really not a common virtue. As a professional imagery analyst, as I mentioned above, I would also assess with a very high level of confidence that the markings caused by wheeled vehicles are a direct result of cache placement in this area, because the tracks precisely follow the pattern of the placed caches. There is absolutely no other reason that would be a viable assessment, unless the tracks had been ther prior to cache placement, and the CO used the pattern that was there. But, it has already been stated that on previous satellite imagery, the tracks were not visible, which gives more confidence to this assessment. (Not to mention the handheld image of the mini van. But, I agree that that particular vehicle is likely not on the actual trail, due to the paved road nearby.) Also of note are the handhelds that Clan Riffster linked with the annotations regarding plant life. I would assess the damage he showed to be moderate to severe, and the trails to be semi-permanent. If that was newly, or less serevely damaged, the plants would still be there, but be crushed by recent vehicle traffic. Since the tracks are clean of any growth, there has been significant damage over an extended period of time. With the proper data sets and exploitation software, I'm betting I could also prove damage to the vegetation that is outside, and adjacent to the actual tracks as well. Oh, and yes, you can generally tell by looking at an image if tracks on the ground were caused by wheeled vehicles, such as our jeeps, and tracked vehicles, like the one Clan Riffster linked up. Also, I'm not entirely sure this was the intent of this photo... But those circles have nothing to do with munitions testing. Those are irrigated agricultural areas. They are the size of the irrigation systems which are anchored in the center, and drive on wheels in a circle to irrigate the land. (The irrigator is equal to the radius of the circle.) I had an area that actually is a bombing range, but decided not to post it. Later!

ok. I'll agree that there is no perfect system, and I did state there is always some subjectivity. I'll agree that perspective does change how reviewer A sees something compared to how reviewer B sees it. I get that. I'll even agree that the reviewer of the Veteran's Day cache that started this whole thing was right, based on the "no agenda" rule. Back to the question that I started with, and that shows, what, in my opinion is gross inconsistency. The Alien Head series of caches has a thread running on this forum, with clear photographic evidence of a blatant violation of a rule, and nobody from GS had cracked down to correct it. (Which in this case means acrhiving those caches, or someone with a rake fixing the newly made trails out there.) If this cache was denied for breaking a rule, how is that one not being dealt with? (If it has in the last several hours, I apologize. I haven't been back to that thread yet.) I can understand some subjectivity or sympathy with "agendas". This is pretty well black and white. And, violating this rule has a vastly greater chance of affecting all geocachers with lands lost to geocaching because of the damage caused. (Again, environmental impact may be negligible. Environmental impact isn't the issue. It's causing damage to the property, that would not be there were the caches not placed.) Seriously? Almost everything in the United States is decided by the majority. Everything from politics, to economy to almost everything. Ask Kmart sometime what happened when the majority of shoppers started shopping at Walmart. And, I've already said this will most likely not happen, but if a majority of cachers took offense to this, and started caching elsewhere, GS would most definitely take notice.

And, I'll reply again with, it doesn't matter what the "agenda" is. This one just happens to involve Veteran's Day. The "agenda" could be me posting a cache to get people to meet and have dinner with me. (Been to one of those as well....) The thing I am trying to highlight is at best inconsistent, and at worst deliberate selection in enforcement of the rules. And, the stance of "we support no agenda" doesn't hold water. The first event cache I went to was a celebration of the 10th anniversary of Geocaching, and Groundspeak even created a new icon for people that went to events celebrating it. (and sold tshirts, geocoins, dog collars, stickers for your car....) So, I suppose that "we support no agenda" doesn't include the agenda of making money. I suppose if we start paying Groundspeak for the privilege of "supporting our agenda" it will then become alright? And, Brain, in re-reading the thread I referenced (now at 5 pages), you agree that they are wrong to be leaving an impact like they are. The point I'm trying to make is that according to the rule that Groundspeak established, that series should be archived. And, I don't see how "big Groundspeak" can say that it hasn't hit the radar yet. At least two forum mods have commented on that topic. And, other people in this thread have noted a gross inconsistency with the same reviewer, and what they interpret to be acceptable. Again, if there is that much ambiguity in the rules, it needs to be clarified. Or, has been mentioned, Groundspeak may need to stop worrying about the 1% that might be offended by a Veteran's day cache, and maybe take note of the much larger number that seem to be offended by the refusal of one. Maybe they need to stop pretending to hold the "we support no agenda" stance, and revise it to a "that cache goes out of the way to be offensive" stance, which would make a LOT more sense. Later!

Actually, I am a school trained imagery analyst, with almost 14 years of experience. In looking at the images at what will serve as full resolution in GE, I would state with 99% confidence the tracks out there were made by wheeled vehicles. (With not being able to actually see a vehicle causing the tracks, I have to leave 1% of doubt.) And, as far as environmental impact, it may be a non-issue. The point that a lot of the people here are trying to make is it's bad for geocaching as a hobby/sport/whatever that we are leaving this noticeable impact on the environment. (Makes us, as a whole, kinda hypocritical.) Later!

Which is why I added the caveat that my knowledge is limited. Thanks for adding some quality info. Later!

The 62S and Oregon 450 are both listed on another thread as $249 for Black Friday deals. Both of which are superior to the eTrex line, from what I know. (But, I have minimal knowledge on the new eTrex line, to be honest.) Later!

While I think honoring out vetetans is a good thing, you must realize that geocaching is a worldwide game. Not everybody in the world wants to honor our veterans. Would you be as happy about caches honoring 'the martyrs who have killed American oppressors' or 'pray for our brave lads who brought down the towers with their lives' (no real caches or groups are represented here, just examples). So you can see it's all in your point of view. Groundspeak, as an international company, has to balance every view, so no agendas. Well, the beauty of our country is that we're free to advocate those things if we choose. I, because of that freedom, can choose not to look for caches I don't like, or like the theme of. (As I would likely do with a "Find the 72 Virgins" cache that looked like a pipe bomb. Just an example.) Again, while as a veteran, it does irritate me, the main point of my reply was the selective enforcement of the rules by Groundspeak. (Or by volunteers representing Groundspeak.) When someone posts clear photographic evidence of one of the "rules" being broken, nothing is said with any official authority. And, I say again, that the tone of that post leads me to believe the intent was there all along, which speaks to an agenda. While the agenda may not have been known at the time of publishing, it should be plainly obvious now. Another counter point I will give is that while Groundspeak may have clients world wide, they are based in America. I don't know the demographics data for all of us, but I'd bet a solid majority are from here as well. I'm also going to assume that the vast majority of people that would find this cache are American as well. And, I never saw anything the OP stated (which I'm assuming to be complete info....) in which he was trying to deliberately exclude anything, nationality, or anyone. My wife published a cache for our 15th wedding anniversary. By the logic presented to justify this cache being shot down, so should that one have been. And, I work as an analyst, and understand there is always some subjectivity in the "quality control" process. This isn't something up for subjectivity. One cache is shot down for not following a rule, one cache is celebrated for unmistakably breaking one. It doesn't jive. Now, I'm not trying bash our reviewers, or the effort they volunteer their time with. As I say in every posting I submit to be published, I sincerely do appreciate it. But, selective enforcement of the rules isn't good. If the problem is that the rules published by Groundspeak aren't clear, or leave too much room for interpretation, it needs to be addressed. Premium Members are paying customers. While the fee may be nominal, I'd like to think it merits us a bit of customer service, like someone telling us why we should live with a double standard. Or, as they say in the Pirates movies, "We thought they were more guidelines, than actual rules...", let us know that as well, and be prepared for the arguments that come with it. This isn't an issue that will likely stop anyone from caching, and it doesn't even affect me directly. But, the rules should apply to all of us the same.

There's a method to the madness. Just saying.

The 450 is going on sale on Black Friday for $249. He can prolly find and download a free topo map, and a free routable map as well. Later!

Just making sure I understand this. We have what, three pages on a forum entry showing this rule being CLEARLY defied..... (The defacement or destruction is visible on a low res jpeg image taken from SPACE.....) but, the rules/reviewers have an issue with people wanting to honor our military veterans? Or, since the celebratory tone of the post I'm referencing... ...it almost looks like this cache series had/has an agenda of CLEARLY defying a rule, and potentially making geocaching harder for all of us by doing so, I can only assume this entire series is awaiting archival now, by one of our astute reviewers. (Damage to the environment may not be an issue at this particular location. I'm referencing the apparently selective enforcement of the rules, and what is, in my opinion, a skewed perspective on things.) I normally support the staff at Groundspeak 100%, and have even encouraged Members to pay for the premium membership. However, on this issue, I can't. And, yes, I am a military veteran, but that's irrelevant to this discussion. If someone trying to do something to honor a part of our society that is largely responsible for us having the freedom to live as we choose is shot down by a reviewer, how is the other post I'm referencing in any way condoned? Since I suppose I'm a paying customer, perhaps someone can answer me this.

We had an Oregon 200, and the only map we ever used on it was the free routeable map from Open Street Map. I now use the OSM map for the area we live in now on my 60CSx. With a large enough SD card, you could have both on the Oregon, and pick which you wanted to use. Later!

This was one of the coolest caches we've found yet. It's been archived, because the owner had to move, and wanted to reuse the container. Have You Lost Your Marbles???? It is constructed of PVC pipe, and is padlocked with a heavy duty Master lock. In order to get to the log, you have to figure out how to retrieve the key, which is actually inside the container. (There were also a lot of marbles inside it, hence the name.) Something like this is an honest challenge, and all of the required items are at GZ. Later!

I'll add the following, that we got as a log in one of our hides today..... Mrs. DazD sent back a note that it's all good. If you're willing to prove you were there, we're good with it. Back in GA, we hid 4.5 terrain cache. An older gentleman in our caching group there approached us, and said that he'd been all around GZ, and described, in detail, where our container was, but that he wasn't able to reach it because he was alone and walks with a cane, etc. We let him log the find, even knowing full well he never touched the container. The hide is hard to get to intentionally, but we don't want to ruin the fun for people who might not be able to find help either. He offered to return when a group was going out and sign the log, and we said it was cool. It's a game. Have fun, and don't sweat the small stuff. As has been said, as the CO, you have the power to control logs on your cache. And, if someone gets upset that you deleted their fabricated log, that's their problem. Later!

There's a few books out there about caching. I know there's also a "Geocaching for Dummies" as well. Check your local book store, or maybe pop geocaching in to Amazon. Later!

As far as I know, (it may have changed, and I haven't heard if it has) the Garmin restriction on custom maps makes them -almost- not worth using. They really want you to buy the Birds Eye subscription. A while back, there was a group working on cracking the proprietary format Garmin uses, and when I was reading it then, they had some pretty good success. But, to use their stuff, you have to patch your firmware, which voids your warranty, so be careful. Later!

You might also want to check Open Street Map, and see if someone has already digitized (trace them into a GIS environment) the trails in the area. Or, possibly you could digitize them, and layer them on the gpsfiledepot map. If OSM has it, you can download them easily from there. Later!

People will tell you otherwise, but I won't buy a GPS for caching that doesn't have some capability to do paperless. (I use a 60CSx. While it isn't truly paperless, there are "good enough" work-arounds for me.) But, modern units all pretty much support paperless now, even at the low end. Later!

1. Any time. I'd say at least 1/4 of our finds have been in the dark. 2. Any weather. If it's raining, be careful with the log. Otherwise, if you can tolerate it, it's good weather to cache in. 3. When our cache kit is getting low on swag, we go to a dollar store, and drop about $30 or so on $1.00 items to restock it. Mrs. DazD has also made a lot of handmade clay coins we use as our signature item, when a cache is big enough to hold them. 4. We carry ultra fine point Sharpie markers to mark the logs with. Some people have stickers, which I think are roughly akin to address labels. (You can prolly find them with Google.) You want them fairly small, though for widest applicability. We've seen a fair number of people that use self inking stamps as well, and they will custom make you one at Staples for around $20. Again, smallest size is best. 5. Assuming you're in an area where he'll be safe, and you can keep an eye on him fairly well, yes. We've taken our American Bulldog out caching often. She has, in fact, found a couple for us. Hope this helps! Later!

We've found 633 now, and have yet to find one with an "actual" internal compass. I just got a 60CSx that has it, but haven't made it out to cache with it yet. It's nice, and I won't buy another new GPSr that doesn't have it, but it isn't any where near essential. Later!

The 62S, hands down. It has the quad helix antenna, which is awesome for accuracy/signal lock, and there are almost always good quality topo maps on www.gpsfiledepot.com, and good routable maps on open street maps (http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/). The Magellan may be able to handle custom maps (I know the Triton series could), but I'd go with the Garmin, no question. Later!

The biggest, and prolly most applicable difference is that the 62 has the quad helix antenna, which is tried and true from the 60 series to grab and hold a signal. The eTrex line have the patch antenna, which will likely be sufficient, unless you commonly find yourself in severe terrain or under heavy tree cover. Other than that, it comes down to form factor, and ease of use. The only real way to figure out which you like best is to get hands on, if possible, and try them out. If you have an active group in your area, there will likely be someone close that has each of the more commonly used model types (any of the new eTrex or 62 series have the same form/function) and will be happy to let you demo it. Or, if you have a good outdoor store, perhaps you can try them out there. Hope this helps! Later!

Unless you intend to carry maps of a VERY (VERY) (I have an OSM map that covers all of VA and OH, and pretty much everywhere in between, and it take up about 350MB) large area inside your GPSr, a 2GB micro sd card will most likely be more than you ever need. A Garmin rep told me that 4GB is all the Oregon series will support, but as has been said, there are obviously exceptions to the rule. I currently have a 8GB card in my 60CSx, and it works fine. Later!

Far as I know, the Montana series has the biggest screen of any hand held GPSr. Matter of fact, it takes 3 batteries to run the thing. And, being a Garmin, I'll assume it's a solid device otherwise. Later!

gmail does this. The addy we have on our geocaching account is solely for the purpose of the geocaching. It auto forwards to my wife's regular account. If you need help setting that up, lemme know, and I'll look through gmail a give you a hand. Later!