Frolickin
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Posts posted by Frolickin
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How is this going to work?
Let's say that I do not opt in. I am excluded from the stats. No problem there.
Then I want to see where I actually stand. I then opt in. I see where I am. Then I opt out again. I am no longer in.
Is the checkbox going to work that quickly? Can I opt in check and then immediately check out?
Just curious . . .
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark 42:What does TPTB stand for?
The Powers That Be
Of course, it's also a song off Roger Waters Radio K.A.O.S. (also a cache) album:
quote:
The powers that beThey like a tough game
No rules
Some you win, some you lose
Competition's good for you
They're dying to be free
They're the powers that be
They like a bomb proof cadillac
Air conditioned, gold taps,
Back seat gun rack, platinum hub caps
They pick horses for courses
They're the market forces
Nice car Jack
They like order, make-up, lime light power
Game shows, rodeos, star wars, TV
They're the powers that be
If you see them come,
You better run - run
You better run on home
Sisters of mercy better join your brothers
Put a stop to the soap opera right now
They say the toothless get ruthless
You better run on home
You better run - run
You better run on home
The powers that be
They like treats, tricks, carrots and sticks
They like fear and loathing, they like sheep's
clothing
And blacked-out vans
Blacked-out vans, contingency plans
They like death or glory, they love a good story
They love a good story
Sisters of mercy better join with your brothers
Put a stop to the soap opera state
They say the toothless get ruthless
Run home before its too late
You better run - run
You better run on home
Billy: Goodnight, Jim.
Jim: Goodnight, Billy.
Uncle David's Great Dane: Woof, woof, woof!
The canyon - daytime. Billy plays with Great Uncle David's Great Dane.
Paraquat Kelly: Bull heads, three red snapper, one pink snapper and your Pacific coastal trench hosemonster fish.
Cynthia Fox: Ohhh! At Sky David's juke joint of joy reports, forty under the console giggle stick ling cod, twenty-three purple perches four sledgehammerhead sharks, and what a surprise, eightyfour crabs, and no red snappers.
Paraquat Kelly: Hey, and that'll do for the triumphant return of the fish report with a beat.
Jim: We think of it as mainstreet, but to the rest of the country it's Sunset Strip. You're listening to KAOS in Los Angeles.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by Elias:The terms are about as standard and boiler-plate as you can get given the uniqueness of Geocaching. Chances are the majority of content sites you visit have very similar terms. Please email contact@Groundspeak.com) with your concerns and questions so we can address them for you.
Thank you for the offer, Elias, but this thread is the appropriate place, imo, to air this out.
The terms try to sound boilerplate, but there are issues. Some are in the first post of this thread. And while I agree with you that many sites may have terms that would concern me, the fact of the matter is this is the site we are dealing with now. Most of my content that I post on sites are sites that are controlled by me directly or my employer (again there, I have a large portion of the control).
The way the terms are written right now here at GC.com means that if I collate any information about cachers, I violate Groundspeak's standard and boiler-plate terms of agreement. It is not if I just want to place a cache that these terms kick in. It's if my browser has your address in the bar. It's when I reply to your post.
This is totlly unacceptable.
I am not agreeing to this policy as it is currently written.
I understand Groundspeak needs to protect itself. I understand that geocaching is new and presents unique issues. But by placing the kinds of restrictions this document does, you risk alienating your core audience. Yes, we are always free to go elsewhere. I would hope, however, you wouldn't want us to.
Elias, please address the issues in this thread. That will be a good start.
Thank you,
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by AllenLacy:quote:
Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the Groundspeak Terms of Use.You know, this is unacceptable. I do not agree to the Terms of Use Agreement. I am using this site until a compromise can be worked out with Groundspeak. If a compromise cannot be reached, I want all references to me from/on anything owned by Groundspeak removed. I am not agreeing to this document as it is written.
It is time for some words from Groundspeak.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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Here in New Jersey Melvin's Multiple Madness is what I would call a definitive cache. It's difficulty, the length of time it went b4 it was found, etc. all add to its status.
I am looking for a cache that Virginians would deem definitive.
Any help is appreciated,
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by Warm Fuzzies - Fuzzy:One of those additional agreements may be seen http://www.geocaching.com/waypoints/agreement.aspx, as linked from the Pocket Query page. It says:
_Licensee agrees to use reasonable effort to protect the Data and Related Materials from unauthorized use, reproduction, distribution, or publication._
Okay.
Now, if I do not download PQs, but rather scrape the data, where is that prevented in a TOA? It seems that one can access this site without agreeing to any TOA and thereby would not be in any violation.
So, I can't string together the PQs. That still does not answer whether or not these data are personally identifiable information. If so, there is still a problem.
If not, then there are still other options for getting these data without violating TOAs, I think.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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Groundspeak will not sell, rent, or otherwise disclose Personally Identifiable Information to any third party, except: (a) in connection with any merger or acquisition of Groundspeak (or Groundspeak assets), including without limitation any restructuring activity with another legal entity; or as (
as required by subpoena, search warrant, or other valid legislative or judicial process. Groundspeak may, however, disclose non-personalized, aggregate data to third parties as may be collected and processed in connection with the Site. Personally identifiable information must not be information about caches, handles, dates found, etc. The reason I say that is that Groundspeak sends me information every day that contains that information.
So, each datum in a PQ is not personally identifiable information.
With that in mind, there should be no reason why we couldn't string together all PQs and make them available elsewhere.
Because the information in the PQs is not personally identifiable information, there should be no restriction in reaching into the cache pages past the last five logs for a particular cache.
If those data were gleaned from the site, I see no reason why it could not be posted on another site.
From my reading of the TOA, nothing prevents this unless Groundspeak is in violation of its own TOA.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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Regarding these radios . . .
I have looked at many in Walmart, etc. Most seem to run off of a varying number of AAA batteries. I have found a set or two that run AA batteries. These, however, seem to be far more costly than most of the other models.
I would prefer a set of radios that run AAA batteries. Can anyone recommend a decent set that is inexpensive?
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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The new cache submittal page has a checkbox for uses to agree to the Terms of Agreement. I like know what I agree to so read this document just now.
A few thoughts . . .
Statistics
Third-parties (other than a merger and subpoena) cannot be provided personally identifiable information from Groundspeak. I read this that Groundspeak cannot idly stand by and have its data scraped. That would seem to be providing tacit approval.
No surprise, but Groundspeak withholds the right to use personally identifiable information to generate its own statistics on this site in the manner it chooses.
Use of Publishing Tools and Forums
(k) Collect or store personal data about other Site users.
I need help with this one. If I collect e-mail addresses and urls of cachers through the web site, I am in violation of the Terms of Agreement. I understand the intent of the restriction, but this is poorly conceived.
(a) Upload, post or otherwise transmit any content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortious, defamatory, slanderous, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, embarrassing, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable to any other person or entity.
There are many threads that violate this. I do not see Groundspeak curtailing any of it. Who is to be the arbiter of these issues? If I say I am embarrassed or object to a post, the person who wrote it is in violation of the Terms of Agreement. If Groundspeak does not take action, I am certain this clause would fold under scrutiny. Of course, that does not violate the entire Agreement, but it casts the Agreement as suspect.
Guarantee the accuracy or timeliness of the information available
Throughout the Terms of Agreement the above phrase is used. I understand it is a CYA move, but it instills not a bit of confidence that one cannot stand behind the accuracy of what he posts. There was a time when men stood behind their work. Yeah, they got burned and now hire lawyers. That is a demerit to our capitalism.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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A year or so ago, there was a thread somewhere that made me pause. Someone pondered what would happen if GC.com disappeared. The gist was that there would no record of one's geocaching history at all (that isn't quite true with The Way Back Machine et al.).
That idea stuck in my head. This site is not guaranteed to last. Some will say that some of the decisions made may even expedite its demise. Nevertheless, I wanted a record of what I have done in this game.
Question #2
I have spent a great deal of time creating a database of my experiences. Despite Jeremy's protestations, I am collating data: the coordinates, names, GC #s, etc. of caches I've been to, names, handles, e-mail addresses, web sites, etc. that pertain to caches I have sought. Throw in all the same for caches hidden and who has found them, hitchhikers launched and found, etc. and pretty soon you have a pretty sizable project. This database has all caches I have been involved with in every capacity from every site.
This database protects my history. That is what it was created for.
To answer your second question, there is always a history of my caching. It may not be available on GC.com and it may not be accurate on someone else's site, but it exists.
Question #3
I can also play with the statistics too when I want. I know my total find count. You can't get that here at GC.com and you couldn't get it at Dan's. If I want to calculate percentages of DNFs to finds, I can. I can do whatever I want with my cache data. There are times when I want to work with those numbers. That's how I am. Heck, I score baseball by hand to get stats to play with.
It's important in that is how I seek entertainment. But I have control of that as well. I am not dependent upon GC.com, Dan's or anyone else for that component. It's true, I cannot complete comparative analysis with other cachers (or at least not the way I have this set up presently). That is interesting at times too. It is not, however, the issue for me that so many here have made it recently.
Question #1
Finally, to answer your first question, no, I would continue caching and having fun despite whatever hypothetical is provided about statistics.
Jeremy's Trial Balloon
I do not think, the way you presented it, I would opt in to a group. The way I have used Dan's site in the past is more cursory. I browse through to see what's happening. It's not a motivator, competition, etc.
Out of curiosity, would these proposed groups have public data or would one have to be a member of the group to see the statistics?
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by Baloo&bd:Please tell me that was just added because I looked and looked.
I just ordered 3. Thanks.
I ordered a few . . . last year, so no, they weren't just added.Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):A large enough number of folks have stressed that they don't want their data shared across sites, and I do my best to protect their right to own and manage their own data.
You know, I have not been fighting these wars for it matters not a hoot for me. Yes, I liked looking at the stats, but I am not lost without them. I understand that you/Groundspeak are not interested in providing the kinds of stats that these folks want. I respect your decision and support it.
But Jeremy, to say that the reason stats cannot be housed on another site is because you are protecting cachers' data at their request is a big stretch. What I see proposed is not listing cache pages, coordinates, etc., but merely who found what, when, etc. That is a totally different kind of data than a cacher's cache page. If you don't want to give up that data, fine. But that you are protecting that data for me is illogical.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by Baloo&bd:Does anyone know where do get the Geocaching.com windows stickers. These are the type like you see from universities, car models (Across the topp of the windshield), etc.
Are these what you are looking for?
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by GeoGryffindor:Hey, I am not usually one to worry, but I notice that Mopar has disappeared. Anyone know what has happened to him?
I spoke with him last evening. He was in the official chat.
He posted to the NE forum yesterday.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by Dream Alchemist:ok if you dont know the keyword to look up how do you find it?
Go to the Search Page.
Read the paragraph below the fields area. It states You can also view all locationless caches in alphabetical order.
There is no need to do the search, it has been prepared for you.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by Woodsters Outdoors:Is the site not searching in that dark closet has them all stored in?
The search page has a direct link to them:
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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I responded to balloonatic. He stated that if there were stats available from GC.com he would immediately sign up. He then stated:
quote:
The kind of data that a stats page would need is very limited and would not compromise the underlying base of data that the gc.com site uses. Even if it did, it's our data!It was at this point of his post that he then asked What's your issue Groundspeak?
I quoted that and replied Search the fora. Jeremy has addressed this.
The reason I did so is that Jeremy has spoken about why there are not stats here.
quote:
Originally posted by fizzymagic:You said that Jeremy had directly addressed the issue of having a third party aggregate statistics from this site.
I never made such a claim. I indicated that Jeremy has spoken about why there are not stats here and provided a link.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by Webfoot:Less than 20 minutes. Not bad. Thanks Fro.
Anything for the one who introduced me to this fine game.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by Webfoot:. . . where does one go about creating these?
Watch this question be Markwelled within 5 minutes.
We aim to please.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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A few of us were there to witness the event at
the What a Drag #3 cache.
Congratulations!
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by fizzymagic:quote:
Originally posted by Frolickin:Search the fora. Jeremy has addressed this.
Really, Fro? Maybe I'm just stupid, but I cannot find a direct reference to this by Jeremy anywhere. Could you please help and Markwell me in the proper direction?
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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quote:
Originally posted by balloonatic:What's your issue Groundspeak?
Search the fora. Jeremy has addressed this.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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We filled up two days ago for $1.35/gal.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
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Congratulations!
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose
as required by subpoena, search warrant, or other valid legislative or judicial process. Groundspeak may, however, disclose non-personalized, aggregate data to third parties as may be collected and processed in connection with the Site.
Derailed Threads
in General geocaching topics
Posted
Post 21. Someone asked a question
Post 23. Someone answered the question asked in post 21.
Post 24. Added nothing to the conversation
Post 26. Had to explain this whole thing. Sheesh.
Fro.
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Geocaching . . . hiking with a purpose