Jeep_Dog

Sigh. I thought, perhaps, things would die down with the guidelines enforced, and some understanding ensued. Now, a couple of emails later, one saying "I hope you are happy now," I suppose my thoughts were wrong. By the way, no, I am not happy now. In fact, I am quite the opposite. I am totally disgusted. A thousand thanks to the collective selfishness that has turned my stomach to one outdoor pastime that I loved so dearly, and helped me keep my sanity. Hope has turned into a nightmare. Melodramatic? Perhaps. Then again, a lot of the crap I deal with on a daily basis is surreal and melodramatic. One last point. "It is understandable to want a cache to be unique and to be the one to find that particular cache, but don't insult us by inferring that we did this only for a smilley face" was left on the cache page after things returned to "normal." A lot of insult abounded, sure enough, but obviously not in a form that you could fathom. EDIT: Consider, for example, after the finds were changed to notes that within an hour of the cache being restored, another GW4 "finder" logs a find with "I really enjoyed the hunt. TNLNSL." Now, if this cache at GW4 was so moving, so inspirational, and gets you in touch with troops and cachers over here, then why cannot these same people take but a few moments to read the cache page, and read the logs OF THOSE WHO ARE ACTUALLY HERE AND FOUND IT? Does this seem like concern or care? It is obvious even a simple act of reading the logs of cachers in Iraq that found it has not occurred, or the "find" would not have been posted. Do you know what is insulting? The fact that this behavior flies in the face of logic that such "finds" are in honor and support of those in Iraq caching! Do I imply that everyone at GW4 who visited this duplicate cache is just as guilty of this callousness? NO! However, please try, just for one second, to see through different eyes and see how this is hugely insulting, and why it is bothersome to have such callous found logs keep popping up. Also, perhaps see for one second, that notes, as opposed to a quick and thoughtless found-it log, are much more credible contributions of support, and in the spirit that the cache owner intended. :END EDIT I believe I was respectul enough to point out I was not judging others, it was just the actions of others bothered me. I tossed it out there without malice, and if the shoe fits, then, well, wear it. If you are not wearing the shoe, at least I can easily spot that you are sincere.

One a month. No, not "once a month." ONE a month. At this blistering pace, I will still run out of caches before I leave this place. Unless, of course, someone besides me gets busy and places more caches. I may get lucky enough to average two a month.

I would think a cache that I Did Not Find for a second time yesterday was pretty well cursed. ... if it was there to hear, I called it many a foul name. Yet, through all the cursing, I still did not find it. What I need is a BLESSED cache.

The cache is back in service. The warm support that was intended by the owner is certainly being felt. Euphoria over the recognition is being felt. This is not a result of having "won" anything like a disagreement over the guidelines. No, it is over the superb logs being entered, and the good tidings being offered on the cache page. I think that is what the owner had intended at GW4. Our geocaching community may suffer rifts in opinions at times. However, often very obvious positive signs of self-correction and understanding abound.

I posted my opinion about a cache on the forums. Egads, that was CRAZY.

Please review a quote from one of my earlier postings below. Defending the cache owner is not necessary. If cachers placed a note instead of a "thanks for the smiley," this would be a different matter. The point is the guidelines were broken by those claiming a find. I'm not sure "permission" was granted to claim a find in the first place, but that is moot, since the owner rectifing the situation and abiding by the guidelines. H2NUT sent me a personal email, explaining his plans on the cache and apologizing. I replied he neither owed me an explanation or the plan. He is fixing it, I do not "blame" him, end of story. Earlier posting: "I never insinuated that the owner had anything but the best intentions. It would have been nice of the GW4 announcement had been made on the cache page for the cache over here, but I will not cast blame for that oversight. I wold have also asked those visiting the duplicate to take their "smiley," if that is all it meant to them, from the GW4 page and not the one in Iraq, but I am not perfect either, so will reserve judgement on the cache owner's calls. It is also possible good intentions could have unintended consequences. It is difficult to think through all of the possibilities. In this case, altruism morphed into a selfish quest of the smiley."

I agree with Criminal. TPTB cannot speak any louder. As soon as the violations were pointed out, reviewers quickly shut down caches that either were not within the guideliens or cachers were using them outside the guidelines. If only cachers exercised as much concern about the integrity of the guidelines as TPTB, much of the angst would have been avoided.

I think I may be diverting off topic on my own topic. I wonder what will happen...? At any rate, you bring up a VERY interesting point about the difficulty/terrain rating over here. I have had that discussion with a couple of cachers on this side, and selecting ratins throw us for a loop. It would seem as easy as you describe it, yet unfortunately it is not. Difficulty and terrain is relative. For example, BOOMER! in most places in the world probably would be a 5 difficulty or terrain rating. If you visit this cache at the wrong time, then it could kill you. Literally. Specialized knowledge (watching the cache area over a couple of days), specialized training, and at times equipment might be needed. That is all solidly 5 star material, say, back in my cache stomping grounds in Texas. Yet, here, it is quite easy. Everyone has the knowledge and at least some training or savvy about the area, so the cache is quite easy with that knowledge. The cache in this example, once you factor the relative experience of the cachers here, works out to about the posted rating. So, is it better to post the rating based on what we would expect to rate a cache in other places? Or, perhaps, is it better to factor some of the "routine" difficulties of the region, to avoid 5 star rating on all the caches, and cachers have idea of what they are actually getting into? Obviously, most of us have chosen the latter. Finally, your point is excellent. It is because many of these caches might be 5 stars anywhere else, but not really advertised on the pages since the pages are for the information of local cachers, that has been a part of factoring into the angst in the "average Joe" claiming a find.

Hey, RK, screw your rules. I've got the world record of wanting to find caches but not finding caches, and nothing you can do will take that away from me. Sure, you demote my new record by calling it a "caches not just visited and not vandalized" if you wish, but there it is. I have a team. I got people on my team who are not even geocachers. We always stay at least .5 away from each other. In fact, for a month, we managed to stay at least .5 away from any cache not belonging to us. Unfortunately, today, I was run off the road after an explosion. The sad thing is, we careened to a stop within .13 of a what turned out to be a geocache. I climbed this tower (will upload photo later) to see if I could spot a bad guy, and as I squatted I knocked over a brick and found a geocache. Who in the heck put this here? Didn't they know I had a record going?!?!? We got the 24 hour record. Shoot, I had a personal record for actively not finding a geocache when I wanted to find a geocache of over ONE MONTH. Plus, we are here in Iraq, and we logged DNFs in Texas. What do you think of THEM apples, hmmm? My coup de gras was a long concurrent streak of not placing any caches. Well, that ended today, too, when once my record of not finding a cache was shattered by some unfortunate events, I decided to place a couple of caches, too.

Since this reply came in on a thread that started with my opinion of one cache that was at GW4, I would like to point out the that owner of the cache in question has ethics. He is attempting to get everything back on an even keel, and has apparently is remorseful about the unintended outcome. Another "for the record," I never demanded the cache be archived, the owner delete finds, nor even folks change how they logged the cache. Would it be nice if either of the latter two occured? Would that make me "happy?" Well, yes, but I do not have unrealistic expectations everything in GC occurs to placate my happiness. I tossed out my feelings on the cache in question. Those that can see the issue that the cache is more than "another smilie" to those that have actually been to the cache, and respect other cachers, I assume would change their logs. Those that did not see the issue, or perhaps saw the issue but just do not care about how others value the cache, I assume would leave as finds. The same goes for the cache owner. Were the guidelines "abused?" (I do not like "abused.") Well, certainly believe that they were, but that is GC.com's judgement to determine, not mine. Again, I floated my opinion to be used in weighing decisions. Finally, I have been asked why I have posted this here. Why not? Is this not the purpose of the forums? After posting a note on the cache page, I received some not-so-nice emails (not from the same person as Mopar, so please do not go and flame that fellow out). Now, a resonable person who is respectful of others may wander, when something like this happens, "did I miss something, and have I gone overboard?" and query the community at large.

Well, this confusion was completely my fault, since apparently I may have gotten off topic. Whatever the topic may have been... I was pointing out where someone else's "style" that does not harm others', hence should be left alone by others, could perhaps actually be a style that disrupts someone else's. I plant micros. I believe all of them are well planned (well, except for one, but my daughter chose the container and placement, but to her it was brilliant) and quite thoughtfully placed. The logs bear this feeling to perhaps be correct. As such, I was not on a rampage against micros. However, thoughtless micros, even thoughtful ones, could cramp someone else's "style" (or, "freedom" to play the game as they like). With this in mind, I am careful about placing caches the way I play the game. In other words, I think through the consequences. I know I cannot make everyone happy all of the time, but is there a balance between MY desires from the game and other folks' desires from the game. Oh, to answer your question, the micro planter knew a mystery multi was being planned for that spot. Why didn't I capitize on the terrain? Well, for a second time in my life, a war got in the way of my entertainment plans... At any rate, my real argument was missed. See how easy it is to overlook someone else's perspective? THAT was my point.

For the first year of caching, I truly believed as Ranger believes, which is that mind my own business, do not judge others, let everyone play the way they want to play, and no-one would get harmed. Perfect harmony and freedom is at play in this sport, or so I thought. I have realized some circumstances where this is not true- 1) A string of micros in the woods "blocking" a well-planned regular-sized cache, 2) Bogus finds diminishing the pride of logging a "rare" cache, 3) Somone who spent 4 years caching gets little acknowledgement for hitting a 300 milestone, since relatively, that is nothing "ah, nothing more than someone couldn't do in a day," 4) Rude comments by a cacher who "does it his own way, and the rest be darned" nearly tearing apart a planned event, 5) Private property trespassed all in the name of finding a cache, 6) Native plants run over by truck tires, 7) A logged "find" of an experienced geocacher who called the owner and "described" the location, and being "granted" a "find," and a follow on cacher, thinking the cache there, spent an hour the same day searching for a cache that was not there, 8) A cache migrating .2 away from placement since finders thought "oh, I would hide this here instead," You know, I could go on for another 20 or so examples, but this is silly, since my point is that our activities and "doing what we want, and it is ok," does indeed affect others. I still play the way I wish, and I also still will not judge others by comparing them to my style, but I am very cognizant of common practices and accepted behaviors in our geocaching community, and strive to play within those "accepted" parameters. Above all, I attempt to respect my fellow cachers.

I am one of those cache owners, and that log is GONE. Just kidding. I have little problem with backlogging on either archived or still active caches. You see, it has to do with cache maintenance. I reguarly visit my caches and review the logs, check condition, et cetera. I limit the number of caches for this reason; so I can maintain them appropriately (very well, I am at an "exceptional" period where 1/2 my caches are 7,500 miles away, but generally I am quite regular about maintenance runs). So, for this reason, when a backlog shows up, I generally remember seeing the name in the physical log and noted to myself "how odd, they have not logged on line". So, it is not a matter of trust in allowing the log, it is a matter of knowning the cacher was there. Just a plug for the guidelines. I follow them closely, but many who read this will realize I do judge others by my adherence to my interpretation of guidelines.... "The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements. As the cache owner, you are also responsible for physically checking your cache periodically, and especially when someone reports a problem with the cache (missing, damaged, wet, etc.). You may temporarily disable your cache to let others know not to hunt for it until you have a chance to fix the problem. "

Thank you for the kind words. Just for the record, I have some skeletons in my "find" closet. I bring this up only since I have received some rather... um, "passionate" emails, and those that claim I am "holier than thou" will undoubtedly make an effort to plow through my stats to find "infractions" to throw in my face. 1) I logged a cache that I placed. GASP. I am not the cache owner. I was asked to place the cache at a specfic place and coordinates. I used a GPS to get to the location, checked the cache page to ensure the location, and placed the cache. Then I opened the cache, and signed the log (but did not take the "FTF" credit, whatever that is worth). I found the specfic hiding place, and even found the cache, just not at the right spot. I have no intentions of changing this cache to a "note." 2) I have found virtuals and locationless. Several of those were with my daughter, and we have fond memories of the hunt. As soon as she understands enough to get her own account, we will move those to hers, and I will most likely delete them as "finds." I'm 50/50 on this, since they were "appropriate" finds by the rules at the time. I can say that after doing 16 or so combined, that I did not feel as if this was "true" caching, so stopped doing them (or, at least, logging them as "finds," since we made a game of finding locationaless items - had the sheet printed in the car). 3) I solved a riddle and took an "extra" smiley on a cache. I will change that to a "found" note. At any rate, I suspect you respect my "numbers" in a figurative sense. In case it was in a literal sense, I am just exercising the integrity with which I attempt to apply to this game. You see, I wish to be respected in this game (figuratively). As such, I attempt as much to show respect to others. Is that not all we can do? Those that have left their "found" logs either are oblivious to the "raging" debate, or flat-out do not care. As I posted earlier, I will get over that, and it helps that I believe the dismissing of the opinions of another cacher will, eventually, come back to them in full.

No worries there, actually. If the cache is not un-archived, I shall replace it. If I have to replace it, the cache placement credit will go to the first hider, and everything about the cache will be pulled to the replacement. I never insinuated that the owner had anything but the best intentions. It would have been nice of the GW4 announcement had been made on the cache page for the cache over here, but I will not cast blame for that oversight. I wold have also asked those visiting the duplicate to take their "smiley," if that is all it meant to them, from the GW4 page and not the one in Iraq, but I am not perfect either, so will reserve judgement on the cache owner's calls. It is also possible good intentions could have unintended consequences. It is difficult to think through all of the possibilities. In this case, altruism morphed into a selfish quest of the smiley (in the worst case) or perhaps bothering folks who have found it (best case). Clearly from the logs, it at least bothers those that found it. Please take the time to read the note I posted about the owner. To me, this is not about the owner. Speaking of unintended consequences, I would not want the owner to be looked at differently because of this. I wish this cache meant nothing to me. I admit I was surprised that the logs offended me, since normally I would care a less about something relatively unimportant in life. However, it certainly did, so I thought posting a note may be a way to let those who logged smileys know that it bothered someone else. Those who play this sport and respect others will remove their "finds." Those who do not, well, their "find" will stay as long as the owner allows it, I and some others will continue to be bothered, and we will get over it. The online-memory of something we accomplished will be defaced, but the memory will still be there.

Thanks for the plug, Nomad. Your segway into a larger issue is clever. However, a point of order. Bedrock in Baghdad does not get shot at very much. However, there is one that seems to be a common target (for a while, I had to check every couple of nights to make sure the cache wasn't blown up)... "If paying attention to your surroundings and ensuring hot metal is not flying through the air to tear into your flesh was not quite enough fun, then be glad that this cache is a micro, and planted in a tree that bites. "

I am quite saddened by the amount of disgruntlement this has caused. I will quote my latest note, because it summarizes somewhat my thoughts of the cache owner and why the logs bother me. First, I want to get something off my chest. I invite people to share in my experience. Being offended by folks logging a cache does not equate, in my opinion, to blocking someone from "sharing the experience." I will point out some ways that geocachers around the world have shared in the "lives" of those who cache in Iraq: 1) Sent a box containing pre-made caches and cache maintenance material. 2) Sending along TBs and Geocoins to place in caches. 3) Giving Geocoins to Iraq cachers that are related to their caching names. 4) Sending cachers a package with all sorts of thoughtful goodies. 5) Sending along an email saying "hey, thanks. I appreciate what you do, and am glad you can cache there." And, sometimes, the simplist things make a difference: 6) Watching all the caches here. Sending a note of encouragement to the new cachers, and thanking the old ones for placing another cache. 7) Thoroughly reading the profliles to send a note or email with meaning. 8) Every so often, and sometimes during holidays, posting notes on the cache pages saying "thanks." Now, my thoughts on the owner and why a silly thing as logging the cache bother me... "First, I have met the cache owner. I have been honored to log a cache with him, and watched him drag more bags of trash at a CITO event than anyone I had seen that day. My opinon is that he is thoughtful, conscientious, and cares about the community. There is no doubt in my mind the doppleganer cache was placed with the best of intentions. There is no logical reason why any of the logging should bother me. It is just a cache, after all. I do not understand why local finder's logs being buried under curt statements such as "Another smiley" should bother me. However, it does, and I was merely pointing this out. I will say it again - there is no logical reason why it should bother me to have to scroll down a flock of logged finds of people who have never been here to read the log of a dear friend who found the cache yet will never return home. For some reason, I care a great deal about the caches in this area. Most of us here watch them carefully, and look for any sign of change (coins dropped, TBs moved, new cachers to greet, and what your caching friends are up to lately on their hunts). You see, to some folks back in TX, this stupid symbol means nothing more than a smiley icon and credit for a cache found. To some people here, it has much more meaning, and perhaps even helps give meaning to their lives. Any statements that reflect who you might know, how many tours so and so have done are irrelevant to me (if someone truly cares, they will see in the profiles of cachers here that many have been here, done this... multiple times. Many have some very high awards, but humbly do not boast that, for it means just as much to have the cahe on their record as it does to have a star on their chest). I appreciate the sacrifice of all of our friends and family, but fail to see how that translates into justification for logging this cache. I did not, nor will I, judge anyone who logs this cache. As such, I do not need any justification as to why anyone would be offended by my being offended. If what I wrote originally causes angst with anyone, I apologize. However, I do not change my opinion on this matter. That is not my character. Either you will understand how logging this cache from TX could cause offense to someone, or you will not understand. I admit the details that bother me can be silly, but exist nonetheless. Either you respect that opinion, or you do not. Peace out."

I really do not get too wound up about much in the Geocaching universe. However, I did develop a very stong opinion about THIS CACHE, and have included my note below. I am not looking for validation or to be told I am stupid for my opinion. Rather, I am curious as to others' opinions about a situation such as this. NOTE LEFT ON GEOCACHE PAGE: "I do not get offended by much in Geocaching, since I believe Geocaching is for the Geocachers, and that rules should be minimal. However, the rules are simple. Find a cache. Sign Log. If you take something, then leave something. I find it hugely disrespectful and an insult to Iraq geoachers to have a cache clearly not found logged so many times. I gather from the logs that the "cache" was used at GW4, apparently. Sometimes, a find is not just a smiley. Sometimes, to some of us, there are certain caches we are quite proud to have on our list, and obviously went through great pains to log certain caches. We develop comraderie also with those that have found the cache. Perhaps I am way out of line. Yet the fact remains, I am offended by the logged finds on 27 MAY 06."

My first Liberty was the first year it was made in '01 ('02 model) and I loved it. I had a fully loaded '99 Grand Cherokee that was just wonderful, but drank too much fuel. The 6 cylinder Liberty was a bit more fuel efficient, but still not as efficient as I would have liked. At any rate, the Liberty has turned out to be my favorite Jeep model so far. Small enough to be fuel efficient, enough power to pull 5000', and with one of the highest entry and exit angles of any stock Jeep, it does not do too terribly bad off-road, either. As an added bonus, my daughter loves it. Anyhow, I now have a CRD (diesel) and am absolutely pleased with it. Finally, off-road capability with great gas mileage. Plus, the nearly 500 mile range on a tank of gas makes it a good vehicle to get lost in the mountains, desert, or any other place without having to think much about refueling, even when lugging along in 4 X 4. The little motor is quite spry for a diesel, plus if I am in a really environmental mindset (or want to get back at supply & demand driving petroleum prices high), filling up with biodiesel is always an option. Oh, dreary day, since my nice CRD is parked safely 7,500 miles away, and I walk/bike to caches for the time being.

I try to visit my caches once a month, even the micros and even if they have no trouble with getting found and trades seem to be equitable. Periodic checks for me are good, even if nothing seems amiss in the logs, to ensure the cache has not migrated and is still hidden as it was originally. Do not get too disgruntled about trading. In the last three caches with swag that I came across, in two I left something when nothing was taken, and the other was an even trade. There are cachers out there that are conscientious about trading or leaving something without trading.

1) Not every cache has to be placed to be found by everyone. I noted the "do not approve of playground caches" and "you place it there, you are limited to a select few." Like a scuba cache, a cache on a rugged mountaintop, and other such caches are not for a select few? That is the joy of geocaching, that there is something for everybody, and everything in between. 2) As a cacher who caches frequently with his toddler daughter (and soon boy-well, 7 months as "soon" until I get out of confinement, since he's getting his geocaching legs under him), we revel in a playground cache that has a lot of adventure in finding the cache, and then getting to play on new equipment with new faces, too. Cheap entertainment the entire family can enjoy. 3) Experienced solo cachers know to hit a playground on a rainy day. Few, if any families, are around. Now, the Chuck E. Cheese parking lot caches may be a bit difficult on these rainy days....

Well, any number of dangerous critters can be found throughout a number of areas, so you advice is good for any cache, not just desert caches. We've encountered rattlers in the Black Hills in October. If you think your snake photo was scary, you should check out this nice snake a visitor snapped on the way to one of my caches. At least your desert caches only have natural hazards, unlike some desert caches in other places.

My '97 Boots, Combat Desert, with ??? miles. They are soon to be retired and replaced by '05 Bellevilles, Combat. That retirement day will certainly be sad. Like some of our friends, I have photos of my vehicle in action. To save you the download, here are a couple of links to show the vehicle in action- Here it is at At Water Palace and here it is at Bedrock.

By your warning, you obviously underestimate the monstrous powers of some toddlers. For example, I believe little Sarah and I may have encountered a gardinel last August. As we neared ground zero in woods last August, I got Sarah out of her backpack seat to help locate a cache. All I noted were some unusual features in the dark woods, and as I began searching, I heard quite a scuffle to my left. I heard a shriek, and naturally grew quite concerned. I shuffled to the noise, fearing the worse, and there was my two year old grinning from cheek to cheek, and all seemed fine, except she was stomping away and some biological material. "Did you yell, honey?" "No daddy. Cache plant gone, now." I had no idea what she was talking about, and never did find the cache. Now, I know it may have been a gardinel. Your warning would be better written "Dire Warning About Carnivorous Toddlers In Dark Damp Forests, Watch Your Gardinels Closely and Place them Cautiously."

One of the October games in the contest was to re-paint the WJTB. I would imagine that is how the Jeep got a different paint job.