garretslarrity
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Posts posted by garretslarrity
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1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:
Around here at least, most remote caches tend to be larger sturdy containers, like ammo cans for example, that don't need constant maintenance to prevent them becoming indistinguishable from trash. This 5/5 traditional that our group visited yesterday was hidden in 2006 and the only logged maintenance the owner has done was in 2007 when they replaced the original plastic pot with an ammo can. This is what we found yesterday:
It's placed inside a crack some 15 metres down a vertical cliff. In spite of being unmaintained for 16 years, everything is still in pretty much pristine condition, including the logbook:
With only thirty-two finds, including yesterday's, it's not going to need replacement for at least a few more decades. The two DNFs it's had were from people who baulked at climbing down to it, either from lack of gear or strong winds, so hardly relevant when trying to determine whether the cache might be missing, indeed neither the find rate nor the DNF rate is statistically significant enough to determine anything about the health of the cache. For caches like these, whether the owner is active or not is immaterial, at least until such time as there actually is a problem reported by someone at GZ.
Now that's what I like to see! I have actually have a series of hides myself which are all ammo cans in remote places. The whole point of them is that they're designed to last well over 25 years without needing any maintenance. But due to their remoteness or difficulty of the hike, many of them will likely average less than 1 find per year. Indeed I'd be upset if the CHS score flags one of those if they get just 1 DNF because of its low find rate and lack (unneeded) owner maintenance. Hence why I think the Needs Maintenance log should play a larger role in the algorithm. -
As someone who owns a series of caches called Built To Last (all of which are ammo cans), I've thought about this question a lot. I currently have 8 active ammo can hides and another 3 cans in my house that I'll soon hide. So between that and all the dozens I've found, I know what a good ammo can feels like. Here's where I'd rank the brands that I've bought before based off of the units I received:
Excellent:-Redneck Convent
Very Good:
-Huarui
Good:
-Solid Tactical
Low Quality, Will Not Buy Again:
-Harbor Freight
-NBJINGYI
Would love too see similar lists from people who have also bought a good number of ammo cans before. I'm looking to continue trying new brands to know I'm getting the best ones.-
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I've been thinking about this too lately. It seems to me that the CHS assigns too much penalty to DNFs and not enough to Need Maintenance logs. Not sure how much regional variation there is, but at least in my area (Southern California) I see many caches get disabled after just 2 DNFs, whereas caches that keep collecting multiple NM logs over years get ignored by the reviewers as long as they keep getting finds. This seems backwards to me, as I think it's better for the game to have some difficult caches (even if a handful *might* not be there) than to have caches that are there but are nothing more than a disintegrating piece of plastic.
On 10/27/2023 at 9:41 AM, brendan714 said:https://coord.info/GC2CRBKThe 2 DNF logs should not be grounds for disabling and eventual archival - especially when you read that the DNFers did not even make it to GZ to conduct an actual search. Some local geocachers posted notes on the page which thankfully convinced the reviewer to reverse their decision. I am surprised that the reviewer did not review the DNF logs prior to disabling - surely it would have been archived had the community not noticed.
Upsetting to see that one got disabled in the first place. As others have noted, the CHS algorithm should just be for flagging, and at the very, very least reviewers need to read the DNF logs before deciding if it makes sense to disable.
On 10/27/2023 at 9:41 AM, brendan714 said:Geotrash in the woods is not a great look for the sustainability aspects of this hobby.
Yep. And all the more reason to clean up caches that are not maintained and indistinguishable from trash.
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5 hours ago, Hügh said:
To my knowledge, this is a complete list of people with at least four Jasmer loops. (As of Oct 6, 2022 when @thebruce0 asked me about this.)
I hope to join that list one day! Currently at Double
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On 10/3/2022 at 11:23 PM, garretslarrity said:
If I really wanted to set records, I would have hidden it much deeper in the wild. But I figured that this was sufficient since I've decided to make this a series instead of it being one cache. I do promise that later caches in the series will be further from civilization.
Update: I've made good on that promise with the second: https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCA2DC3_built-to-last-ii
This one is a much more significant hike than the first. Its longevity will indeed benefit from less wear and tear on the container, as evident by the fact that I hid and had it published on Thanksgiving, and still today no one has claimed the FTF!-
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The first one is up: https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GCA0FT7_built-to-last-i
The container: A 50cal ammo can. Inside, is a lock & lock which holds the log. The ammo can was an easy choice. Their record of being such a dominant share of the the oldest living containers is unbeatable. And here in inland Southern California, we get very little rain and a lot of intense sun. The intense sun weakens the case for the container being plastic, as I have seen so many plastic containers around here whither away to the sun drying and breaking them apart. And the lack of rain strengthens the case for a metal container as rust is much less of a concern here. While the ammo can should hold up extremely well in this environment, a cache with this name shouldn't contain a single point of failure, so I added the second layer of protection for the log by placing inside it the lock & lock. Personally it warms my heart when I see a clean, beautiful, original log on a very old cache and I had this in mind.
The location: The cache is on Blue Mountain, which few people know about or even know how to get to. Its main purpose is to host a cell tower, and it's in an unnamed area of land. All in all, few people come here. You can tell because the nearest cache right off the main trail is over 10 years old and only has 33 finds. And mine is off a side-trail followed by a bit of climb and bushwhack. In fact, what drove me to this area was the existence of older caches: 4 2006 caches and 1 2008 cache, all in their original containers.
The hide: Underneath a large rock. Shade certainly helps protect from the harsh SoCal sun. In addition, this cache is in a spot where rain water will flow away from it, but not one where the cache would fall down the hill. Hid well with smaller rocks, I hope the finders rehide it well.
If I really wanted to set records, I would have hidden it much deeper in the wild. But I figured that this was sufficient since I've decided to make this a series instead of it being one cache. I do promise that later caches in the series will be further from civilization. But nonetheless I am quite confident that this one will last a very long time.-
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1 hour ago, fizzymagic said:
Just curious how many of the commenters in this thread actually own a cache whose original container has lasted over 15 years?
I do.
I have two that reached their 20th birthdays this year, and another one that will hit that age this October. All three are ammo cans. I have never had to perform maintenance on the oldest two, while the one with the birthday in October I had to move from its initial hide right in the middle of poison oak, but has never needed anything else.
Using a good (metal, not plastic of any kind) container and a difficult-to-reach hiding spot is quite effective. All the nonsense about frequent visits is only required if you don't do both of those things.
I went into this assuming ammo cans were the best kind of container. Doesn't seem like a coincidence that so many of the 20+ year old caches are ammo cans. But I've also wondered how much of that is because ammo cans were more common hides in general back then. Does anyone have a good sense of this?
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5 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:
For two months straight during autumn, we had humidity levels well above 90% the whole time, so with a perfectly sealed container, if anyone opened it during that time the air inside would have held that level of moisture which would then condense out when the temperature dropped. I saw this happen on a few of my well-sealed caches with mould starting to grow in the logbooks even though the interior of the container appeared to be dry. This didn't happen with my breathable containers like the steel cashboxes I've used in some of my cave caches.
Now that makes sense! But does this advantage apply in a dry climate? I live in California and am considering a desert hide
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13 hours ago, niraD said:
As has been mentioned, sometimes a container that breathes, but which is in a sheltered location works better than a perfectly watertight, airtight container.
What's the advantage of a container that breaths?
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Hey all,
I've always found it really special when I find a very old cache and I see that the original container and logbook are still there and in good condition. So to create that same experience for others in the far future, I'm trying to design a geocache to last a very long time. My goal is to have it last for 20 years without maintenance and still be in decent condition thereafter.
I want to gather the community's input on how to make a cache last as long as possible. Rather than consider the longevity of one specific cache, I'll write this as a general guide to making caches last as long as possible. I'll list the dimensions by which a cache or its log can become damaged or missing, and provide a number of solutions for each. I'd love to have help in adding to the list, both by thinking of other issues and by adding to the solutions.
I'll continuously edit the first post as people make suggestions, so that this thread both helps me with my hide, and serves as a living guide for those looking for tips on how to make their caches last.
In rough order of importance:
Rain:
Keep caches and logs dry by:
-Using waterproof containers (ammo cans, lock & locks, jars with twist tops, instrument cases)
-Use layers (i.e. have the log book in a lock & lock which itself is inside of an ammo can)
-Use waterproof paper (stone paper, rite in the rain)
Getting Muggled:
Prevent caches from getting muggled by:
-Keeping it out of sight (this could mean easy for a Geocacher, but extremely unlikely that someone will accidentally stumble upon it)
-Writing "Official Game Piece Do Not Remove" on the outside and include a note inside
-Chaining or tying the container to an immovable object (may also entice muggles if they see, works best out of sight)
-Hiding it deep enough in the wilderness that no one will even want to carry it out
Being Moved by Nature:
Prevent caches from being moved by nature by:
-Not hiding caches too close to waterways
-Not hiding caches near cliffs or on steep inclines
-Chaining or tying the container to an immovable object
-Not hiding caches where they can fall
Wildfires:
Prevent caches from being destroyed in a wildfire by:
-Using a container made from fire-resistant material (metal is better than plastic, but won't prevent contents from melting if it gets hot enough)
-Not hiding a cache near too much fuel
General Wear and Tear:
Safeguard caches from general wear and tear by:
-Using sturdy containers
-Hiding the cache in a location that won't see too many finds
Would love to hear your suggestions to add to this list!
Special thanks to these cachers for contributing:
Harry Dolphin
barefootjeff
niraD
NanCycle
-Bobby (garretslarrity)
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On 5/10/2021 at 3:27 AM, Harry Dolphin said:
Interesting. But it gives me finds in ten states that I've never cached in. Mostly Locationless caches, and, perhaps a few moving caches. I still qualify. But should Locationless caches qualify? 14 finds in California? I've never cached in California.
No they shouldn't! I'll go message the script writer and have him fix that. Thank you for telling me!
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There's a challenge I just hid that you might like. It's called the Pass A Bill Challenge. The idea is to find enough caches in enough states to win a trifecta in the federal government. If you find a cache in a state, you win one its Senate seats. If you find 2 caches in a state, you win both of its Senate seats. Every cache you find in a state gets you a House vote, up to as many seats as that state has. For the Electoral College, you win all of a state's EC votes if you find at least as many caches in that as is equal to half the number of EC votes that state has. You complete the challenge when you have 270 Electoral College votes, 50 Senate seats, and 218 House seats. Alternatively, you can also qualify without winning the EC if you win 67 Senate seats and 290 House seats due to Congressional override. https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC9A8G6
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As for me, I would certainly stay away from caches with at least 3 DNFs. (Unless of course it was checked on or replaced by the owner.) Although, if it were 1 or 2 DNFs, then I would at the number of finds they had. If someone with 20 finds couldn't get, I ignore it. If someone with 1,000 finds couldn't get it, then I avoid it.
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Cache Elevation as Challenge Criteria
in General geocaching topics
Posted
Appreciate the clarification as I don't believe it's stated in the guidelines!