BuckBrooke

cjf, In response to your first mystery, here is at 2002 log for the station on the "real" NGS datasheet, in the NGS database located here: FV1654 STATION RECOVERY (2002) FV1654 FV1654'RECOVERY NOTE BY CA DEPT PARKS REC 2002 (DBK) FV1654'FOUND RM N AND RM SE AND THREE LEAD PLUGS WITH A COPPER NAIL. DID NOT FV1654'FIND THE STATION MARK BUT IT MAY BE COVERED WITH DIRT. DID NOT SEARCH FV1654'FOR RM 3. THE STATION IS LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 200 VERTICAL FEET FV1654'ABOVE THE PARKING AREA. THE STATION IS LOCATED IN MORRO BAY STATE FV1654'PARK. PARK IN THE BLACK HILL PARKING AREA ABOVE THE GOLF COURSE AND FV1654'HIKE ALONG A DIRT FOOTPATH TO THE STATION. This recovery basically says what you said. At the location (the station is ADJUSTED horizontally, so right there), there's no disk to be found. The RMs are weird, especially as they're USC&GS disks, which became the NGS in the 1970s. There might have been disks left over into the 1990s, but if the disk was put down in 1992 I would have expected it to be an NGS disk. So, I would call this one not found, and if you log it not found with the NGS you should mention the reference mark stamping. For your second mystery, if you look at the "original" datasheet, look at the class of the station. FV1101 is VERT ORDER - SECOND CLASS 0 and FV0401 is VERT ORDER - FIRST CLASS I. So, you do get a two-fer, as both stations are the same disk. My guess is that someone came through in 1977 and re-leveled the disk to higher accuracies. The NGS isn't going to throw out the original station info, so they added another datasheet.

I've made these changes. Here are a few more from the gallery, Waymarking, Flickr and email submissions. PENNSU (PA) Pennsylvania State University COLDNR (CO) Colorado Department of Natural Resources - Mined Land Reclamation Division KYDIVW(KY) Kentucky Division of Water DoCBPR (US) U.S. Department of Commerce Bureau of Public Roads AB4130 (KS) Kansas Nebraska Initial Point MD_DNR(MD) Maryland Department of Natural Resources NYSUDC (NY) New York State Urban Development Corporation KU3315(US) U.S. Coast & Geodetic Survey - oldest BC0394 (US) **US Air Force - GSS HS0403 (CA) *East Bay Municipal Utility District [Type II] FX0147 (VA) City of Norfolk - Zero Mile Stone HT3576 (CA) Santa Cruz County Surveyor AC6024 (US) Corps of Engineers - U.S. Army - Duluth, Minnesota office UNKNOW (TX) **WT U CO NE0812 (MI) Unknown - Probably Grand Trunk Western Railroad MC1504 (OH) ( Department of... Toledo LX2482 (US) U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey and State Survey - Connecticut Cheers, Buck

There were links to the photos (I recall looking at them), but I'm not sure what happened. It looks like SoDak yanked the links when he reposted, based upon the times of the posts/edit. One of the disks was an Iowa Dept. of Nat. Resources disk, which I diddn't recall seing before and was interested in putting on the agency list, and I can't remember the other one.

I'm not sure how to respond, but especially with your second disk, that is unstamped as I recall, if you have coordinates we could do some database searching. As ArtMan indirectly pointed out, odds are the disk isn't in the NGS database. But, it's worth a shot.

SoDak, Do you have coordinates for these station? That would help us a bit.

Holtie22, I'm reasonably involved with the AT disks on the corridors. I'm working with Sally Naser to make a useful online database; we started discussions just as my old dissertation topic fell through this spring; I've settled personal matters, and will be getting going on it soon. Send me an email. My impression is that only a handful of the AT disks are in the NGS database; text searching through the appropriate state PID text files found 2 or 3, as I recall when I was going through the databases this spring. Cheers, Buckner

I ran across four stations today that had mower damage. One was missing a good chunk of the concrete on one side, and the disk was heavily scuffed, but the monument and the disk were still solid. I'll log it as an NGS GOOD. The other three had had the tops of the monuments mowed off, but in one case the stem of the disk was still in the monument, and in the other two the hole for the stem was still in good shape. The monuments were otherwise solid. So I'll log those three as NGS POOR. If the hole for the stem wasn't there, or the monuments were shaky, and I had photos (the wife has the camera), I would send it all to Deb and ask for it to be destroyed.

Fortunately/unfortunately, it cannot be added. Please see the more elaborate comment on this topic in the FAQ. You can log it at Waymarking.com.

If folks want to have an event, or know about events, happening in their area, they can contact their state adviser, as suggested by Stephen Randall at the Sept. 23rd St. Louis event.

paflycacher, Welcome to benchmarking. After thinking about this one, I agree with rhelt100 in some ways, but disagree in others. There's an off chance that the disk you found (cool disk, by the way) is the original station, since whomever listed the TANK as the station said they weren't quite sure. But, there are several factors in favor of the tank. 1) The person who recorded the station, COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1960 (JCE), was looking for an intersection station, something that could be seen for a long distance. That's why he logged it as a TANK. So, in the original fieldbook, there was some indication that he should look for the tank. 2) I searched in a 20 mi. radius in the real NGS database, and found 1 station, MB1904, that uses MB1899 as a 9 mile reference, so they sighted the tank. That's another indication that the station was a tank in the mind of the NGS. 3) There's no real evidence that the station is the disk, either by the name of the station or anything in the datasheet. There are millions of surveying disks in the US that are not in the NGS database; said another way, the database is a small fraction of the disks out there. It's not too surprising that you found a disk nearby. For example, around the Albuquerque area (where I live), almost all of the water tank stations have a US Geological survey disk (with an unrelated stamped name) on one of the tank concrete footings. There is a book somewhere in some USGS office that lists information about that disk, but it's not readily available. The concrete footings were a convenient place to put a disk, since it wasn't likely that the footing would be disturbed. 4) The coordinates for the station are ADJUSTED. Even though it's a third order horizontal station, the coordinates will still be accurate to half a foot (I can't remember the exact specifications). Unless the disk is within half a foot of the listed coordinates, there's no way that it can be the station. ADJUSTED coordinates alone make sure that the station was the tank. It's a cool disk, though. I would suggest you enter it as a waymark

Ok, the list is up to date with changes. Email submissions: AB8642 (CA) *City of Anaheim AB8641 (CA) *City of Anaheim [Type II] My attention was pointed to a number of agencies I had missed in the Waymarking benchmark category: CoLODI (CA) City of Lodi GAGESU (GA) Georgia Geodetic Survey ILLDoT (IL) Illinois Department of Transportation (rod) KCODoT (IL) Kane County Division of Highways (rod) DPCM&P (IL) DuPage County Maps & Plats ILLWRE (IL) Illinois Water Resources NYCMTA (NY) Metropolitan Transporation Authority CofBER (NE) City of Bertrand (note that they stamped Bertrand on a standard City of _____ disk NMH&TD (NM) New Mexico Highway & Transportation Department GENVIL (NY) Geneseo Village CLERCO (OH) Clermont County, variants: CLERCO CWENCO (OR) Century West Engineering Corp. SHHICO (OR) Shevlin Hixson Co. Waymarking disks I haven't seen, and can't find after searching, but have been added to the agency list: (US) Civilian Conservation Corps (OH) Cincinnati Area Geographic Information System (WI) Wisconsin County GPS Network That brings the total to about 820

I don't think it matters what case you put your text in. Upper case, lower case or mixed, I've tried them all and it comes out the same. Typing normally is probably easier for Deb, unless of course it uppercases everything between your submission and Deb's email.

OK, I caught up on everyone's additions and emails submissions to me. There was one in another forum topic; I'm trying to track it down. Here are some additions: SOCOTE (GA) Southern College of Technology CoROSE (CA) City of Roseville CofSUN (CA) City of Sunnyvale MTSHDE (MT) Montana State Highway Department GENECO (MI) Genesee County Remonumentation JEFFCO (WI) Jefferson County MZ2634(NY) Saratoga County Engineer As a request, please look through agencies that I have listed, but that don't have photoes. If any are near you, would you mind going over to find them, and snap a photo? Many are found, many are not found.

I've run across this page. I think they're trying to keep multiple non-information recoveries. As long as you provide some text (presumably an update to the description), it will let you submit. I would be interested to see what procedure Deb Brown goes through when she gets a few.

BDT, I agree that I would like to add this information. I haven't had a real response from an inquiry a while back, so I let it rest. There are a number of stations where these line items, _MARK LOGO, _STAMPING, etc. are directly in the text of the monumenting report, or a later report, but aren't in the specific fields. I wonder whether that would be useful as well to the NGS, to point out those where the info could be moved. Would the NGS want just us, us among several select groups, or everyone to be able to submit database changes? Would we need to provide photographic support (easily done by linking to photos on the Geocaching site)?

I've spoken with Charles (GEO*trailblazer 1), and we were thinking about getting together at 6:00 Friday evening for dinner. At the moment we'll chat on the phone, but rogbarn, fivethings and whomever else plans to show up, if you want to get together than we might want to choose a location, and meet there. We're both right near the point/park, so something in that area might be good. I spoke with the front desk at several hotels in the area, and they recommended several restaurants in the Laclede's Landing area, just north of the park. It's about a mile walk from downtown. Three restaurants that were recommended were: Hannegan's: 719 N. 2nd St. http://hannegansrestaurant.com/ ~$15/plate, but recommended. live jazz Broadway Oyster bar: Cajun, blues, etc. Pretty good listing of awards, good food, etc. http://broadwayoysterbar.com/ a couple streets sw of the park. Piano Player: no info on this restaurant yet. Old Spaghetti Factory (several recommendations): 727 N 1st St (1 1/2 streets north of the park) Apparently a long wait, but the food is good. An old, refurbished warehouse, with old beams, etc. Or we can meet at a predetermined spot and just pick a place. Humidity, bleh. I'll have to dig out my umbrella.

Ok, I'm fiddling with my hotel reservations, either at a place near the airport or one with a dry sauna (hey, I like them). Whatever's reasonably inexpensive. Anyways, I'm coming in Friday afternoon, and plan to do the Saturday events (noon through the concert at 6:30). Also, the event Saturday morning. Anyone want to get together for dinner Friday night, breakfast/lunch Saturday, or breakfast/lunch Sunday? Organizing a meal or two now might be interesting.

hybridgeek, The images didn't come through. Could you repost them, so we can look at the disk? Do you have a picture of the setting/piece of the bridge? The NGS database is a small fraction of the benchmarks on the ground in the US. Please read a more in depth response to this question on the FAQ at the top of the forum. Once we take a look at the pic, we can give you better advice. Odds are it isn't in the database. In that case you can create a Waymark in the U.S. Benchmark category.

Not nearly as good as 68-eldo's shot, but here's my stab at a double rainbow benchmark photo. If you look at the original image you can see the second arc better. It's halfway between the first arc and the left side of the image. (Note, the original picture gets resized smaller in the window; you would have to look at it in Paint. odd) EQ0769 3410635001

We usually don't have grumble topics, but I'll start one up. Well, my car (98 Mazda Protege sedan) has been wonky all summer, overheating. It killed its engine overheating this spring, and I thought I would give it one last shot, but I (and mechanic) couldn't find the problem. I haven't been willing to go very far from home with it, thus I haven't really been benchmarking for 5 months or so. Now, the engine finally died as I started commuting down to Soccorro, NM for a fellowship. Bloody, stupid car. And it happened just before Labor Day weekend. Now I have to spend my time shopping for a car. *sigh* Trying to decide between a commuting car (Toyota Corolla sedan, 41 mpg highway minimum) or a wagon (Suburu Outback, 30 mpg highway, more space, roofrack, all wheel drive, etc., a little more expensive).

My favorite was the mark that I Notfounded (near ABQ) to the NGS, and then CallawayMT and I met essentially right on top of it, and he looked down and pointed it out to me.

I wonder how the editing standards of the NGS have changed over the years, in regards to the format of reports.

Thanks for the heads-up, 2oldfarts.

Unfortunately, I have to get a little personal here. All of the people who want to merge the benchmarks into the Waymarking site have little to NO experience benchmarking. That's why the geocaching.com administrators listen to the folks like Black Dog Trackers, 2oldfarts, etc. who've benchmarked for years. I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I'm a Premium member of Geocaching.com and view Geocaching and Waymarking as inconsequential compared to what I want to do with benchmarks. I'm extremely glad that the Geocaching.com folks have included benchmarks into their engine; I'm satisfied with how the website is set up and I financially support it by being a Premium member in order to keep it that way. The benchmarking database on geocaching.com has a particular purpose that is above and beyond the geocaching or even Waymarking-Benchmark site. The benchmarking database mirrors the NGS benchmarks. I know surveyors who actually go to the www.geocaching.com/mark site because they want to know whether a useful survey mark in their nearby area has been logged with photos. This is a feature that the NGS does not have. But the logging requirements for benchmarking (Found, Poor, Not Found, Destroyed) have to be there to support the field, and hobby. Heck, many of the folks in the benchmarking forum/community are professional surveyors. Most of the Waymark-benchmarks are one time throwaways. Noone goes back and relogs them; most of the folks who want to merge the benchmarks into Waymark-benchmarks, or vice versa, seem to say, "I tripped over this thing, how can I get credit for it and then forget about it?" The attitude seems different among benchmarkers; few benchmarkers care about how many benchmarks they've logged. Look at their profiles. Everyone here who has logged more than 10 benchmarks or so seems to want to keep the two categories separate. There's no way that the amount of Waymark-benchmarks will ever come close to the number of NGS benchmarks, and as such noone goes after the Waymark ones. Even if you merged the two categories, they number of Waymark-benchmarks will never matter. As such, there's no point in merging them. I have not seen a good argument for what is gained from merging geocaching/mark with Waymarking.

From email, Casey Brennan plans to show up to (among other things) discuss closer ties with the NGS and the GEOCAC group, and whether or not we should formalize the ties or not. I'm not sure if anything will be decided there, but...we should have a good discussion. There's no organized meeting yet; if Charles shows up that's three. It kind of depends on Casey's (and whomever's, Dave?) schedule. Thoughts? I haven't bought tickets yet, or arranged hotel/camping. Any thoughts on where/when to get together, even just for lunch/dinner? I'd rather meet on Saturday 23rd, so as not to have to take Thursday off work. Thoughts? Is anyone else coming?