Birdsong-n-Bud
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Posts posted by Birdsong-n-Bud
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How do I get a caption to show under my avatar like some of you have?
I tried to write "I AM smiling" under mine, but it won't show here under the avatar on the forums. In my editing page it shows under the picture (and it's been there for awhile now), but here it never seems to show.
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::Bag on head::
I would like to adjust my pocket queries, and ... umm... ::shuffling feet nervously:: I...er, I can't find the webpage to access them again.
Can someone guide me there?
Thanks in advance.
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You can find the clip here: http://www.mi-geocaching.org/index.php on our main page.
I can't find the link to the clip there...whereabouts on the page is it, please?
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Is there a way to set up the cache so that the religious statues are not included in the puzzle? In other words, just use different parts of the woods for different legs if you want to make it a multi, but not the statues.
This means a lot coming from you. Yes, I think I can manage that, certainly. You've given me some ideas. Actually, that might be wiser -- if someone happens to be praying near a statue, that might make it tough to approach the cache. I am going to take your advice.
Thank you.
I have a plan in mind. -
I've gone to a cache similar to what you describe as the one you want to create. It was at the edge of the grounds of a Hindu temple.
Oh, wow! Thank you for posting that link! That is exactly the type of thing I have in mind. Wow. I wish that cache was on the East Coast. That's one that I would love to see in real life.
That was a very well-visited cache, too!
Thanks for bringing my attention to it. I think I will format mine in the same respectful manner they managed to do.
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You can still bring me to what sounds like a very nice spot from your description without sticking the religion in my face. Taking me to a tranquil place that happens to take me past the stations of the cross on the way is one thing. I can ignore them, I can ponder their religious significance, or I can appreciate them as art. My choice. Forcing me to do them as part of a multi or puzzle is different.
Ahhh, understood. I'm with you, I wouldn't want to do the stations of the cross for a cache, either.
I did want to make it a multicache, but would not even consider doing every station of the cross. I was thinking more 2 or 3 legs, just to make it into a varied hike, visiting the labyrinth, visiting a statue with a clue, going to the cache. That sort of thing. Would that be offensive, do you think?
I'll also be sure to make it available as a cache alone to anyone who doesn't want to expose themselves or their kids to anything related to religion. I do respect that not every cache is for everyone. Heck, if someone could pull a cache out of a cliffside for me if I find the crack it's in (me, who is terrified of heights and would rather jump in a pile of dog doo than scale down a huge rock), I'd really appreciate that climbing help. So this is sort of my way of "pulling the cache out for them if they don't want to climb the cliff." They'll miss the full experience, but my gut tells me that more people will want the journey rather than just the destination. I have to resign to the fact that I'll likely never be able to do a scuba cache, and would never take credit for one of those babies, as I will miss the *entire* experience -- both the journey and the destination. I'll have to live vicariously through others.
From the folks who have visited our multi's or our puzzle cache and were stumped, more came back to the cache on their own than asking me in an email for clues (one person so far has emailed me for a clue). I have faith in geocachers.
I don't mind giving the final leg to someone who takes offense to seeing anything related to Jesus. I think in the meantime, many more will appreciate the tranquility of the place and perhaps some history. If they find God there, my feeling is that they'd already "found" him. I don't think I'll be able to give anyone a profound experience, just a fun and peaceful walk.
And I wholly agree with you. The walks TO the tupperware containers is what makes this the great hobby it is. I'll try to be very sensitive to making sure people don't feel I'm ramming religion down their throat. I think that is the question I internally wondered about when I posted my original query here. I was really concerned about this cache possibly polluting the geocaching fun if someone felt it was not a positive experience. I definitely dont want this to be a bad experience.
(Thanks for clarifying).
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If I need to talk to God, I know where to find Him. I don't need or want a geocache to try and do this things for me. The only thing I want a geocache to do is bring me to someplace interesting and hold a dry log for me to sign. Everything else I can do better on my own.
I guess I need to make it clear that I am not trying to bring anyone "to God" here any more than I would by sending them to the woods or the beach to a cache. I just find this an incredible local place of beauty and tranquility.
I've been sent to local statues for a cache, and they were much less significant in "ahhh" value than this place would be. I don't expect anyone to have an epiphany, I just want to take them to a beautiful spot.
I guess it seems puzzling to me how some folks will find beauty in any place except if there is a slight suggestion of religion, they will assume there is a conversion conspiracy in place. ::shrug::
Not at all. I just think it is gorgeous there and beautifully manicured. Quite frankly, I would find it a neat experience to go somewhere of Native American significance, Muslim, Jewish, Pagan....whatever. If it is beautiful, take me there. I won't expect they want a donation from me or a religious conversion. But I do look for beauty, and I am the type that does look for history in items -- without thinking I need to convert. I like to learn to expand the ole' brain. But I also love beautiful places, and that includes more than just woods. There is a much broader definition of beauty.
Just my two cents, but I do need to make it clear that I am not conspiring to suck anyone into some religious scheme. Not at all. I will guarantee that this is prettier than a film canister under a city bench. I try to make our caches as varied as possible, so no two visits are a "repeat experience." We have some pretty unusual stuff out there, and just wanted to keep things varied and fun.
Know what I mean? If it was all about a tupperware container under a rock in the woods every time, I would think that would get old pretty quick. We try to make the journey one that hasn't been taken before.
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has anyone heard from him?
Yes, I have. I purchased some from him. He responded right away. Try emailing him instead of posting here...that might help. He is very nice.
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I like trying out assorted camouflage ideas, Some work really well at being hard to find
JohnnyVegas, how I wish you lived in these parts! I would love to find camo'd containers like those! What fun looking at them! What did you use to cover the MO2, do you mind me asking?
And I don't get the Willard hint....I can't figure out who/what Willard is based on the hint (the pun is eluding me). Can you share? By email? The suspense is killing me, and I live in CT and can't fly out west to check it out! Sounds great, whatever it/he is!
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As a reference check out the California cache below. This one has had no problems in the Santa Clara, CA area where I live. Certainly it's a shrine of sorts but it's also a local landmark well known by those around here. I'm sure a quick review could find many other precedents. If you use discretion and keep in mind other sensibilities I think you should be fine.
Wow, Lefty, thank you for leading me toward that cache page! That was pretty awesome! And it gives me hope! Thanks for the direction.
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If you had explicit written permission then I say it sounds cool and i would hunt it. Anything else, I would be hesitant to hide it if I were you. Also make sure more than just 1 person knows about it at the location.
Thanks for your replies, everyone.
Yes, I did get permission from the leaders at the shrine itself when I visited there this weekend, but would prefer to talk to one more priest to explain it, and I was told that he would likely be very excited about the idea. The others I talked with seemed very excited about the idea. But like mentioned here, I wanted to make sure all knew about this idea, so no one was thrown by it or upset by it. I know this place is close to their heart, and I don't want to make anything less of it to them. I can swing by and talk to him next weekend, and will let you know how it turns out. He's a nice guy.
I heard from the geocaching approver this morning. May I note here that I have had the most positive experience in my submissions and correspondences with him? Even when I made mistakes, he is gracious in leading me in the right direction, and this is no exception. He is terriific, and geocaching.com is lucky to have him as a volunteer. He reflects so well on the hobby's leaders.
He led me to the online guidelines that mention no solicitations and how that included political or religious agendas, and how exceptions may sometimes be made. I must make it very clear on the cache page that a solicitation is not being made and make sure people do not perceive it that way. He had a great idea: that if this was used as an offset or multi that required going into the grounds to get the clues, that folks could have the option to email me instead of going there to get the clues if they felt uncomfortable going there seeking clues to the physical cache.
I think that is an excellent idea, and I think that would make this cache available to those who may not have a Christian-based belief system and do not wish to be exposed to those surroundings. I have some ideas running around in my head about how to complete this cache, and I will wander about to find the best physical placement for the final cache that would be acceptable to those who don't want to wander by religious artifacts. I do think that for those who would enjoy this type of thing, this would be a beautiful, peaceful hike and cache journey; yet for those who would not care for any suggestions of religion, it could be another find they could get in a pretty woods without finding offense in their surroundings.
I thank you all for your great ideas, and for sharing your feelings about whether or not you would visit a cache like this. If you're interested, I can show you how it turns out. Thanks for your help.
(edited for embarrassing spelling error, lol)
Respectfully,
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I've noticed more and more food items in caches as well. Recently I have enountered: A souvenier size jar of marmalade, a chocolate bar, gum, half a package of Tic-Tacs, and several airline size liquor bottles (w/ contents!).
It seems we have found several caches with doggie biscuits in them. While the intentions are good, I can't help but expect wild animals to want to vandalize the cache for a free nibble. I always have the urge to throw them out (but never have the nerve--sometimes they are placed there by the cache owners themselves!). If it were my cache, though, I wouldn't think twice of throwing the dog food away.
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I think if someone did that to my container, I'd be annoyed.
Me, too. I wouldn't like that. I'd LOVE to have them drop their card in, but I wouldn't want the container changed in any way, including having anything permanently affixed to it.
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I am against religious tracts in caches as they seem inherently prosthelatyzing (
How would leading someone to a site like this be different than sending them to a beach? I think they are both beautiful. Neither one would result in anyone knocking on your door.
Still, I understand this wouldn't be a cache for everyone. But neither would one on the side of a cliff. ::shrug:: Can't please 'em all, but can please some of 'em some of the time. <g>
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Look at the bottom of your approved caches. You will find the person who approved your caches. The one who approved most of them will likely be the one who will be reviewing this one. Contact them and run it past them.
Ahhhh, thank you. That is a good lead. I know who to contact. Many thanks!
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By my definition, it is spiritual. I definitely agree that more spirituality can be found in a woodland or ocean shore than by a man-made statue. For sure. But this is a peaceful, wood-edged shrine. No one is there to pull you in. No one will preach by your side. It's never busy when we go there to walk the grounds. It is peaceful and there is much solitude.
This is how I would describe it:
Quiet, natural, paved and dirt roads. It has large stations of the cross which you follow from one to the other along a wooded path. These statues can be visited (and used as part of an offset cache). There is also a labyrinth, and about 100 stairs that lead up to a larger-than-life sized statue Jesus on the cross (HUGE!), and much more. There is a cliff-side statue of Mary appearing to 2 children. There are benches, trees, serenity. A votive chapel for those who are interested. There is an icon museum by the gift shop, kinda neat, but that is tucked out of the way.
We have put 9 other caches in the woods and on the shore. We thought this one might be a bit out of the ordinary. In season, it is loaded with colorful flowers, and is beautifully manicured. If you go to this page and click on "St. Anne Shrine" and then "Points of Interest" on the right, you will see some of the photos of the shrine grounds/statues. Do you think this is too religion-themed for geocachers?
If this was a cache that ever were to be considered, I'd definitely want to post something prominently on the cache page about it being a Christian-related theme, and if they had discomfort with such surroundings, that this is an optional cache to visit and they may want to consider another cache to visit if there were any misgivings about coming to a Christian-themed cache placement.
I do tend to find myself a more spiritual than religious person, but I also find peace and beauty in this place and thought it would be neat to share it.
Does anyone know whether there is a way to contact approvers for their opinions on this, please? When I go to the "Contact Us" page, it sends me to the FAQ page which doesn't address this, as well as directs me to these forums for advice.
Thanks for all your help.
]
(edited for link...hope it works...)
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"Why Do You Hide Caches?, what do you get from it?
LOL! I am still waiting for someone to do the coyote howl and chicken dance...that would definitely result in a frenzy of about 10 more cache placements! LOL
I know I do it for some specific reasons:
1) We were running out of caches in our very immediate vicinity, and we know of some terrific historic and hiking areas that we HAVE to share. It is so cool to come home from a tiring day of work, too exhausting to hike afterward, and to see the emails from a family or couple that has had a blast seeking our cache that day. We still will travel to get to caches, but when we need to stay local, there is nothing like going out on an adventure to live out the cache hide...and people actually flock to find it! Who'da thunk?
2) When the winter squalls keep us in, we know the caches will keep winter-lovers busy, and we'll get to re-live their adventures through the logs.
3) WE hope to encourage others to "up the bar" in cache idea placements. We are trying to stretch the creative canvas and make caches as interesting as possible, not only in *where* they are placed, but in how they are hidden. We're pushing our creative envelope, trying to make ours very memorable, more than just a tupperware container under a rock (though we love those, too!).
4) It is a way of giving back while feeding the obsession. It allows me to obsess about a new idea, think about it during a boring business meeting at work, and carry it out afterward. <G>
5) It is SO cool to meet others online through their experience lived through our cache placement.
6) I get to continue enjoying the hobby through cache logs even when our lives keep us out of the field for a bit.
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is it IN the shrine or AROUND the shrine. I doubt it would be approved if it was INSIDE. I'd have no problem with it, but TPTB are a ticky bunch.
I was actually thinking within the shrine or on the *very* outskirts of it. I'm not sure how to contact the approvers to ask them the question directly about approval. I don't want to bother with placing it, creating the cache page, and then having to remove it if they know from the outset it is not an allowable thing.
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B&B, in our area the most common solution is to make the false coords the parking coords--that way it's useful as well.
That's an awesome idea, RJFerret. That's exactly what we'll do. Thanks for the suggestion!
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Hi all,
I understand that many people are annoyed by religious cards left in caches, and I can understand that. I also recognize that many folks would prefer not to visit caches in places that suggest religion, and I respect that as well. But I do have a question: does that make these places off-limits if we receive permission?
I have in mind a local shrine that is the most peaceful, amazing spot. The spiritual leaders there seemed very interested in what Geocaching was, and showed interest in encouraging people to visit the shrine, even through this hobby. There is no entrance fee to the shrine, and no blatent places asking for donations.
I was wondering whether it would be unacceptable to create a cache here, and post very clearly on the webpage that this is a cache in a Christian-based sanctuary, and if they did not agree with that, they didn't have to visit.
What's the concensus on this? Would this be a cache that would never be approved anyway? I am just curious and thought I'd start a brief discussion on this. It would be our 10th cache placement, and I thought this place fit the geocaching description of beauty and peacefullness.
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"This "code" idea all sounds well and good but I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that somehow, somewhere, sometime, it is going to bite me in the buttcheeks somewhere down the line...
LOL I have to agree, rules can seem pretty inhibiting. However, when I go through them, they all seem to be what we already use for guidance. I think it is meant more to help define the hobby. I do agree we need to interpret them with an open mind. If putting a cache within a side of a cliff or at the bottom of the ocean has to fall under the "safe placement rule," the hobby would lose its advanced flair.
But I do feel strongly that people do need some guidance in the beginning, and of particular importance to me is that land, nature and property are respected. The guidelines present a really positive light on geocachers when we go to ask for permission and share the guidelines with land-owners. Of course, if a rogue geocacher doesn't know the rules and starts taking apart stone walls, that pretty much ruins it for everyone, land owners and geocachers both.
I think most "old-timers" already know these guidelines pat. It becomes an innate standard. Just my opinion.
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One thing that is nagging me. The last item seems to be overly broad. It's pretty much the golden rule and is the basis for many of our laws, ethics, etiquette, and decorum. The rest of the items could really fall into that one.
My opinion: I see newbies seeking guidance on how the game is played. I'd be more specific. Not everyone reads every page in the website, so having one place where all the basics are summarized in one place is important. For example: I read everything ad nauseum, but it took a couple weeks before I found the "trade even or trade up" ethic on the website (I think it was in the forums here, actually). I have to admit, there were probably 2 cases when we didn't trade up back then before we knew better, and it haunts me now. We more than make up for it now.
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Make sure it near the hunt area. "Near" is generally a mile or two, but it depends on the coverage of your puzzle.
Thanks so much for the clear replies. This helped me tremendously. I'll know to make the puzzle coordinates relatively close now. Thanks.
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If I post a puzzle cache, and give it false coordinates to start...how will these coordinates apply to how the page is searched?
For example, if the cache is actually down the street from you, but the false coordinates place it in the next state, what will you see when they punch in your zip code? Will it be listed under the place where the false coordinates are? Will it be posted as near to you?
Am I making any sense? lol
I have a plan in mind.
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Clever idea!