Team Neos

That's a re-run from the top of this same page, even.

I've been thinking about this a lot since you asked and I've read through this thread a few times. I looked at the maps for the general area you are talking about. My curiosity wasn't just because of your this thread--Bowling Green is near an area on my list of places to go caching one day. One of my uncles was from that area, and I am curious to see some of the places he spoke of when I was younger. I'll tell you what I see as an outsider: Fairly well spread out caches. Not many caches there yet, so plenty of room for more. There are only 60 or so caches in the area just around the city, and those are put out by about 12 different cachers. A reasonable variety of caches, not many virtuals, a few puzzles, a few more multis. I glanced through some of the cache pages near there, and saw compliments about the cache on every page. Admittedly I didn't look at all of them, but I looked at about half of them. In the cases of the handful of cachers who have the most hides, I looked a little more closely. Same thing. Every cache had something that someone complimented. No big looooong lists of people just saying TNLNSL or TFTC (which others in these forums is nice-talk for "gee your cache stunk but it was there so I grabbed a smiley"). In other words, if there is a huge problem, it really isn't obvious to the outsider. You've got a nice small caching community there. It should be fairly close-knit with so few people involved in hiding geocaches. I notice that you have only been caching for about six months, and have only hidden two caches yourself. If the caches that are out there in your area aren't to your liking, you really ought to take the advice given to you by people in this thread, and put some out there that are the kind you want to hunt. If other people like them, they will copy them, and you'll be able to hunt them. I think if I were you, I would just let this one go. You seem like you really want something to come of this, but it may be one of those things that is better left alone. I have to tell you, it almost looks like the guy stepped on your toes somehow, and you are hoping that someone else will publically embarass him now that you've mentioned this little concern you have--but I'll say this, as small as your local group is, you probably don't really want to go there.

Then you will probably want to make another post over in the New England area of the forums, where people who live in your area are more likely to see the post and respond to it.

You keep going on and on and on and on about "junk", but I have read this entire thread, and haven't seen anyone lobbying to put out junk. What I see are people asking for caches. There is a difference. Ya know, it's probably easier for one lone cache out in the middle of nowhere to be a junk cache than for several caches in an area to be of low quality. I mean, c'mon--the lone cache can just sit there and be ignored year after year. It won't need a new log, it won't get emptied out, the logs won't get wet when someone has it open in the rain while they sign it. It will just sit there being unopened, unlogged, and uninteresting. On the other hand, a cache out near several other caches will have visitors, TBs will move through it, the logs will fill up with interesting notes or be torn or get soggy and be replaced, Logs will be written and comments will be read. If that cache is going to compete with and compliment the ones around it, it will need to be interesting and well maintained. There is nothing particularly glamourous about the lone ammo box in the boonies.

Found the right sign, rounded it out, and took out the wording.

I wasn't around then, and neither were you apparently...but If the average cache quality in 2002 was so wonderful, all caches would be just like that today by your reasoning. (people hide caches just like what they see). From what I have heard from the old timers, paint buckets and ammo cans waaaaay out in the boonies at the end of grueling hikes were not enough to please every cacher. After a bit people started trying to come up with something a bit more interesting, challenging, unique, etc. And the game grew in popularity anyway.

If it was just about fun and the joy of finding caches, a 20 stage multi would serve the purpose just as well as 20 individual caches. I don't feel that way. In fact, I feel exactly the opposite. Twenty individual caches would pull me out to that trail at least twice, but a 20 stage multi would go on my ignore list. Once I start something, I like to finish it. If I set out to do a 20 stage multi it would annoy me to stop that often for "one" cache. I like to take walks, and I like to geocache. Persecute me if you wish, but I see nothing wrong with enjoying getting a "found it" reminder (smiley) and a chance to log a good story on each geocache I find. We often go out to trails or parks that have multiple caches. We choose which caches to do that day and deliberately save some for the next time we go back there. Oh sure, it sounds noble to say that the sheer beauty of the place will draw me back again, but I know myself. Given the chance to go back to somewhere I have been before or go somewhere I haven't been and find a few caches too, I will choose to find the new caches. There have been a few threads asking how many caches people have done in one day--our usual good day is twelve caches. A six mile trail with 20 caches on it would not inspire me to try to finish it in one day--that is too much for me and my two ruptured discs--but it would take me to that trail twice or maybe even three times, depending on the access available.

Hmmm, what is it that he likes about the hides? And is it just "placement" that you don't like about them? Is the hiding technique itself sound? Are they well camo-ed? Good containers? Are some people in the community fans of his hides? What good things of they say about the hides? Is it mostly the folks who prefer a good hike that dislike his caches? Do you really wish he would start hiding caches out where you want to go, so you can enjoy his hiding technique? I think if I kept hiding caches that no one else went after, while nearby caches were found frequently and lavished with praise, I would eventually figure out how to attract the locals to my caches. If you really just wish he would disappear from caching, I would just continue to ignore him and put out better caches as examples to others. If you really want to help him become a better at choosing his hiding locations, perhaps you could compliment one of his hide techniques and let him in on the secret of a spot where you think that hide type would be just perfect?

Interesting that you mention Indiana, as we're Hoosiers, too--but waaaaay down south from you. Here in the metro area (near Louisville, KY) , there are a variety of container types. The matchbox is a popular small container as is the film cannister. Larger caches tend toward ammo cans tucked here and there. Of course, if you drive just a few miles away to the wooded areas, the ammo can is king. I spend about as much time caching in KY as in IN though. Lots of larger parks in my area have ammo can hides as well. We also have one fellow who just loves to use big plastic jars, there is another who is fond of paint buckets. Most of these are straight up hides, but one guy really specializes in multis and offsets that are awesome and there are a few who like puzzles that aren't too hard for me (which must mean they are easy because I am terrible at puzzles). Down in the southwest corner of the Hoosier state I know of someone with a penchant for putting out teensy weensy little itsy bitsy nanos. I think the folks in his town will eventually rise up against him but perhaps not--we found a good number of smaller containers there. We have a lot of local cachers who like to try experimental containers. You never know what they will try next. Some things work, some don't--we comment for each other and move on. The really bad ideas get replaced fairly quickly (Which reminds, me, I have one I need to go do something with myself!). On a trip to WI a couple of years ago, we kept finding largish pill bottles. After the tenth one or so my husband logged he commented about it in one of the logs "You folks not feeling so well?"

Selling used electronics is a tricky proposition at best. I agree that most people who sell in here aren't trying to take advantage of anyone. Electronics start out expensive, and quickly become less expensive as new technologies or versions with more bells and whistles become available. The person who gets a new gps and uses it for two months, then drops out of caching or buys another gps doesn't always realize that the cost has gone down on them so drastically, and who can really blame them for thinking that since they harldy used it, it ought to be worth most of what they paid for it. (Except that isn't the way it works). When we bought our Legends a couple of years ago, we paid $185 for them on sale. Now they sell all the time for $140 and you can catch them on sale for $110 if you watch. Folks who bought one for $180 and only used it three times are likely to think "Well, it's almost brand new. I should be able to get $125 out of it" But who would pay that for a used model with no guarentee when they can have a new one for about the same price? And once you realize that no one wants your valuable almost new gps, you have some tough choices to make. You can bite the bullet and sell it for a truely fair used priced....Um, I would think that in the case I mention above $70-80 would see it get snapped up quick and people would consider it for up to $100. Or you can go the online auction route. Those places are interesting to watch. I often see things worth $10 go for $40 in a feeding frenzy. If you really have to get a lot of money for something, list is there and have a minumum price you will settle for. I appreciate people who offer their goods here first, so another cacher can have the first crack at something. But I agree with whoever said "but don't list it here, too" If you choose to go the online auction route, you don't need to list it here--that just makes it seem like you are trying to take advantage of other cachers (even if you aren't). I do think that we ought to look out for each other in here. If we see something being offered for a price that is out of line--either too low or too high--we ought to pipe up. As long as it is done pleasantly and respectfully, there really shouldn't be any hard feelings created.

Hmmm, that should pop open a window that says "palmOne desktop install" . What kind of palm do you have? You need to tell it what file to choose. I send my PQs to My Documents my box has this info in it: C:\Documents and Settings\computer\My Documents\152188\152188\152188.pdb To set that, I clicked on the file folder icon on the right side and it pulled up the most recent files of the type pdb--all I had to do was choose the right one. I know this seems too obvious, but do you have "install to palm after conversion" checked? Seems like I had to uncheck state/country. YOu might have to tweak other things depending on how you set up your PQ. And where would the install to palm after conversion be? HEY, Nothing is to obvious for me! The palm is an 3xe. I really do appreciate the help. Great, it sounds like you got it to go to the list of files to be put into the palm! If the file has been sent to the Palm, then the next time you plug your Palm into the dock and hit the synchronize button, it should put that file on it. If it doesn't for some reason, doubleclick on the Cachemate and it should open up the Palm one quick install box--along with a popup that says "Confirm add" that has that file listed. Make sure the file is highlighted and the "user" is set to whatever you call your PDA and try synchronizing it again.

Well well. they were semi-new cachers, anyway. Looks like they went out a few times in May and haven't been back out since. No telling why they haven't been back out. They might not have a gps of their own, they may not have really taken to caching. They may even be having some troubles of some kind. Chances are, they have forgotten he has the TB by now. Unfortunately, a few people start caching and then wander away again with TBs. I doubt he was serious in his log--probably just being humerous, trying to go along with the cache theme. Have you tried a nice reminder note to the email address linked to the account? Ask them to please drop it back in the cache he got it from if they aren't going to get to go caching again any time soon. If that fails, perhaps you can figure out who got them into caching by reading their logs, and get a message to them through that person. edited to match the pronoun that I think is correct for the cachers

I know, I'm being a pest, but I found this on the 'net tonight, and found it compelling. The Old Whitewater Canal By: William Campbell of Muncie This was wrote during the Great Depression When Indiana was young and gay Someone built a waterway, An old canal by the river wide Like a little fawn by it's mothers side. It scampered around from town to town, This way and the other, And often strayed from where the river layed That fed it like a mother. Back in her days, there were no highways, But she was always ready To carry her load, down her winding road For her walls were strong and steady. Her boats did go though rather slow, With produce loaded heavy. And were pulled along by mules strong From their path upon her levee. But now she is old, her story told Like an old book tossed away, If you happen to ride down by her side You may see her there today. Just like a bride, full of pride She was built a long time before up Let us go down to old Hagerstown Where the old canal starts on her course There she does seem like a beautiful stream With trees by her side so tall As she runs along, she sings her song To her ever cumbling wall. She seems to say, "I have had my day, Although I have done my duty Now I am told that I am old And have lost all of my beauty." "I have served as a road, I have carried my load To the market I did deliver, I carried the goods throught hill and woods Down to the old big river." You may see her today, like a fawn at play Though her walls are beginning to totter, She bounds and leaps, while her mother creeps The river, old Whitewater I TYPED THIS EXACTLY AS MY FATHER WROTE IT. AS YOU KNOW HE HAD TO QUIT SCHOOL IN THE 6TH GRADE, WHICH MAKES IT ALL THE MORE REMARKABLE. PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF IT. I PERSONALLY LIKE SOME OF HIS OTHER POEMS BETTER, BUT THIS WAS THE ONE HE WAS MOST PROUD OF. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO READ SOME OF HIS OTHER INDIANA POEMS PLEASE LET ME KNOW. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST. I SPENT MANY HAPPY DAYS AT LAUREL, INDIANA AT THE RIVER, FISHING AND CAMPING( NOT EVEN A TENT) WITH MY FAMILY BACK IN THE 40'S AND 50'S. PLEASE CONTACT ME: (email address removed for privacy)

This one is pretty. Perhaps a telented individual could clean it up and recolorize it to make a nice coin image?

If we did "Canals of Indiana" (instead of just the Wasbash and Erie Canal) I wonder if the Whitewater canal people would let us modify their image? I think it will appeal to you, Team Tecmage!

I like the photos you have. I've been hunting pictures, too. Here is one that I think looks like it could be in Indiana (It was actually in Ohio).

Why thank you, BlueDeuce! I am enjoying the stories in this thread myself.

Congratulations! (I knew you could do it) They get easier as you develop your geo-sense.

My husband has gotten into the habit of asking me "What does Mr. Garmin say?"

Hmmm, that should pop open a window that says "palmOne desktop install" . What kind of palm do you have? You need to tell it what file to choose. I send my PQs to My Documents my box has this info in it: C:\Documents and Settings\computer\My Documents\152188\152188\152188.pdb To set that, I clicked on the file folder icon on the right side and it pulled up the most recent files of the type pdb--all I had to do was choose the right one. I know this seems too obvious, but do you have "install to palm after conversion" checked? Seems like I had to uncheck state/country. YOu might have to tweak other things depending on how you set up your PQ.

If it's just been too long since it's been found and I want to archive a cache so someone else can place a new cache there, I write a note on the cache page warning everyone that they only have until ______ date to find the cache. I give at least two weeks notice, so it will show up on weekly PQs.

Log a DNF. (well, you didn't find the cache, did you?) If you really really really really think it is missing, I would also drop an email to the cache owner, explaining where you looked and telling them that you think it may really be missing. It's amazing how many times you think the cache is missing when you don't find it where you think it ought to be. On the other hand, caches do go missing. They just go missing a lot less often than you would think.

Scene one: Strange town, evening, near a barrier on a road, not finding the cache. Police car slows down, stops, gets out, lights us up with his flashlight and says "Good evening folks"--We explain geocaching, offer him a pamplet on it, and tell him that we can't find the thing. He uses his maglight to find it in about 30 seconds. We try to get him to sign the log for his first find, but just then another police car pulls up, hears the story, doesn't seem impressed by caching, and asks the first officer if he wants to go get something to eat. All in all a nice experience. We told them we would be finding some other caches in the area, and they wished us a good night. Scene two: Daylight near a waterpark. The cache was new and had only one log on it. The cache is off to a side of the park but the employees and owner seem to be on the lookout for someone near the cache and descend on us moments after our arrival demanding to know what we are doing. I explain geocaching, offer them a brochure (which they won't accept). I show them the most harmless looking empty cache container I have with me (an orange matchbox with the official gc tag on. They ask if I have found the one there yet, I admit that I hadn't (Hey, they saw me pull up) and they tell me that want me to find it and get that thing off their property. I tell them the owner is a young person and surely didn't mean any offense. it). I offer to tell the cache owner to remove it, but they insist that I find it and get it away from there right now. I apologize for the cache owner not contacting them for permission, find the cache, let them know I have it, and get out of there fast. Funny thing is, they seemed mildly interested in geocaching--they just did not want it there. Scene three: Late night in the local town. Old stone building with wide open doorways near a park along the river. An obvious party spot over the years, based on all the broken glass around. My husband has gone there alone to drop off a TB. He is lit by the flashlight, comes out with hands over his head. The voice asks "What are you doing in there?" and he starts to explain, "Well, you see..." but gets interupted by a more demanding "What are you doing in there" ---"Geocaching"---"Oh, why didn't you just say so?" Backup arrives and are told "It's one of those satellite game people" and everything is all better. The local police know all about geocaching. They wish him a good night and go on. Scene four: Summer day at a creek out in the boonies. We are deep in the search when we find ourselves surrounded by pre-teen to teenage kids wanting to know what we are doing with those funny cell phone thingies. Since we are invading their swimming hole, we decide to tell them. That involves showing them how to use a gps and explaining geocaching. Some of their friends pull up just as we are in the middle of that, so we start all over again. We hand them the gps units and they figure out where the geocache is. We get them to sign the logs and tell them how they can log them online. We hope they won't muggle the geocache, and they apparently didn't (five more people found it in the next few weeks). They never logged it online either, but hey, I got kids to learn something on summer break, so it's not all bad! Every time it happens, you have to go with your gut instinct about how to handle it. If the person doing the asking are the police, or the property owner, they best thing you can do it to be honest. It helps to carry the brochures or the folding cards that explain geocaching. If someone really seems like they may harm the cache after you leave, you can always take it with you, hide it nearby where they can't see you, and let the cache owner know where you moved it. That's my backup plan at least. So far, I haven't felt like I needed to do that.

From my experience with USB ports and windows computers, as soon as you turn on any "new" device attached to the computer, the computer detects the device. It's been a long time since we first plugged our Legends into the computer, but if I remember correctly all I had to do was plug in the USB cord, plug the other end into the Garmin, and turn on the Garmin. All NutLady should need to do is to tell GSAK where to send the data. In GSAK, select GPS (top line above data) then choose the radio button "GPSr setup" and choose Garmin--- Make sure USB is checked (if that is how she is connected) and the max number of caches the gps will hold (1000) is filled in. With the gps plugged into the computer and turned on, GSAK should be able to take it from there when the "send" button is clicked.

I'd log the DNF> I log mine anytime I have information that may help someone else decide how long it will take them to find the cache. If one out of every four people who go to look for it don't find it, that indicates to me it might take more than a few minutes of looking to find it. If no one ever logs a DNF, and no one says anything about looking for a long time, I get discouraged if I get there and look for 15 minutes and don't see it. If something in the area other than the cache keeps me from looking, I log that too--or at least note it. Things like too many people around, too much snow, road construction keeping me from getting there all get logged one way or another. For me personally it's a DNF if I pull onto the street I intend to park on to hunt the cache. The only time I don't make some kind of note at all is if something personal keeps me from looking. For instance, no one will benefit from learning that I realized it was time to pick up my son from work and didn't even turn down the street the cache was on.