Crystal Sound

I have to agree with the lightning strike. Being high on a peak I would expect there to be a few lightning strikes on occasion. The energy released in a lighting strike is very intense. There is so much energy released, that not only is metal melted, but actually vaporizes. Sometimes there is evidence of melting, but often metal is vaporized so quickly, that there isnt much metal that is in a liquid state long enough to flow to give it that melted look. I've seen similar pitting on metal parts of insulators. If you look closely at the "D" in GEODETIC, there is what appears to be a small pit. Also at the "CE" of REFERENCE is an imperfection. They look to me, like the results of a sidestream (tentacle) arcing of a strike. Bullet (and other) impacts tend to have some "smearing" when at an angle, and more a cupped hole. I'm not saying it "is" or "isnt", but it does look to me like lightning damage.

Coastiegirl - After reading this thread, I've had a few thoughts... It's obvious that the "benchmarks on gov't property" issue, and the access of them, is not consistent. Meaning: Some areas are more "open" than others. What does seem obvious to me, is that there is an access issue on your particular base. If you havent done so already, what I suggest you do: Post a note for each of the benchmarks that does reside on your base advising that the mark not be visited by geocachers. Most of the people on GC do not visit the forums, and your message would be most likely "heard" by those who need most to know this info. Having been in the Army dealing with classified information, and in security as both civilian & military, I am aware of the issues with accessing Government property. Personally, I seek proper authorization in any government installation, or I just dont bother with visiting at all. I'm sure most of the "serious" hunters do the same.

From my experience, the Foretrex keeps the best lock of the 4-5 units i've tried, under tree cover. As others said, the 101 will interface to a PC. You can buy a cable (separately).. Or, if you are handy with a soldering iron, you can easily build a cable from parts purchased at radio shack for about $10. I have a friend that has a 201, and yes, it comes with the cable. It's also a little thinner than the 101. I went with the 101, so that I can change batteries if needed. I figured there might be times I couldnt recharge the built-in batteries, so it made better sense for me.

Garmin has a pretty good write-up on using paper maps with GPS units on their website. I'm not sure about the other brands (i'm sure they have it also) but most of the Garmin units I've had, will display MGRS (Military Grid Reference System) coordinates, if you select the proper setting.

I have both a Foretrex 101 and a Legend... Although I like the basemaps (and topos) in the Legend, I think the Foretrex is a MUCH better unit. The FT seems to get a better "accuracy circle" than the Legend 9 times out of 10. The FT holds a satellite lock under heavy tree cover better than the Legend, also. Not to mention, it's nice not having to hold the Foretrex. I can wear it on my wrist, and it holds a lock in about any position. I cant say the same for the Legend - wearing it around my neck by the lanyard makes it useless, as it loses lock. The Legend has a bigger screen, but I find the greyscale is sometimes harder to read than the crisp black/white of the Foretrex. And the FT backlight is *MUCH* brighter than the Legend. As a previous poster stated, Garmin's topo maps are not that detailed. I much prefer using National Geographic Topo 24K series, and suffering with some "reference waymarks" and a printed map sheet, than what the Legend has (100K maps). Most of the time, i just connect my GPS to the laptop, and run Topo "live". Note: I had purchased the Foretrex as my first unit. NO regrets. I later purchased about 4 other units (used) and quickly sold them. I also bought the Legend and Mapsource topo (exploration pack with accessories) due to the reviews that the Legend gets here in the forums. I'm afraid I've been rather disappointed with the Legend, and somewhat regret the purchase. The maps are nice, but I find I really dont need them. The performance of the Foretrex makes it my main unit, and I rarely fire up the Legend anymore. It's become the "loaner" unit. I cant say anything about the Legend C - other than I've heard it's better than the regular Legend when it comes to satellite lock, and screen readability. Edit: Clarifications.

Cachemate, and MacCMConvert are about all you need to know... MacCMConvert will convert the gpx file to a cachemate file, and add it to the que for your next sync. Other than that much, the rest is pretty much like the PC world...

Jeremy, A well-crafted response!

Dont forget the visions.... For instance, you drive along a road, and spot one in a bridge abutment... Or spotting an "innocent enough" round concrete post, along the side of a rural highway. Somebody please, make them stop! Welcome to the hobby/obsession/whatever you like to call it.

I read somewhere, that most consumer GPS units only use 3-4 of the "best" satellite signals to determine a position. The remainder are tracked, just to update the ephemeris data, for use when the "current" satellites are no longer as useable. This seems to be true for the units that I've used. There's been times I've received 10+ satellites, that I've had a relatively high PDOP / EPE. There's been other times I've only tracked 6-8 satellites, and had a lower PDOP / EPE. If this is true or not, I am not certain. This might also vary for different GPS manufacturers, models, ect. As I understand it for the professional (survey) units - the number of satellites, and the geometric relative positions, makes a big difference in the accuracy of the fix. I have a large number of GPS based time reference clocks installed over a 13-state area. These units only require 4 satellites to obtain a micro-second accurate reference. Like others have stated, there's only been a handful of times I've received 12 satellites on my unit.. 9 being a typical average. To me, 16 seems to be a "bragging rights". With geocaching, who knows about the unit the hider had, and how good of a fix they had when giving coordinates. Getting to the 'exact' spot the coordinates state, is useless, if the they are 30 feet off anyways.

Thank you for your comments and perspective. I missed and/or didnt think of a few of the points you made.

I have to agree with most of the other posters on this topic. I felt that Max's reaction to all of this was a bit heavy-handed and over-reactive. I saw nothing in the thread that needed moderated, until Evenfall responded to Max, with a post that seemed to have a slight attitude tone. I dont think "an attitude" warrants a time-out. The reason I still frequent the Benchmark / NGS / National Map forums is that there is much less angst / attitude / what-have-you present here, than in the "geocaching" forums. Fewer arguments & disagreements seem to happen here. Those very things have caused me to give up on the geocaching forums, and stick with the technical forums. These technical forums seem to have a much more adult level of conversation. The need for moderation has been very low in these forums. Why Max felt the need to jump in here, and suddenly create a scene, I do not understand. (I am a person who tries to view things from all angles, and I still dont see his "angle".) I am a bit troubled, as to why Keystone is responding to this, and not Max. I'll try to assume he is busy with "life" and not being "yellow". Still, Keystone should not have to respond to something that Max should be commenting on. I can understand Keystone's points on this. Keystone is my area's cache reviewer, and even as a forum moderator, I have felt he has been fair in his actions. I can understand his position. I have a personal respect for Keystone, as I felt he's generally done a good job in what is a usually a thankless job. Without having done a search for past posts concerning Max & Evenfall, I do seem to vaguely recall some friction between the two of them, some time back. It does seem to me that the two of them provoked one another, and this entire thing blew out of proportion. I could understand a day or two, for a time-out... A week, might be a bit long, but also understandable. A month? I dont think that is at all appropriate for the situation.

I've not had much experience with your brand of GPSr, but I'll give a few thoughts, since noone else has responded yet... Did you check your map datum setting (WGS84) ? How far off, are you considering inaccurate? Have you allowed your unit to "bake" - leaving it in an area with clear view of the sky for 30 mins or more, to properly acquire the satellite's data? This may be especially helpful if the unit has been powered off for some time, or hard reset. Have you compared your readings to a known point - an ADJUSTED Benchmark? Perhaps visiting a benchmark that has been GPS observed, on several different days, might shed some light on the behavior of your unit. Are you sure your unit is truly at fault? Depending on the units you are comparing to, there will usually be some differences in readings. Most cachers have "consumer" units, which are only accurate to some extent - variations are to be expected. We have one cacher in my area, whose coordinates are always at least 50 feet off, or more. I find the majority of caches I seek, the coordinates are off. I figure this is due to the fact i have a newer unit than some of the others. Another cacher I know, has a unit that consistently reads 30 feet east (or something to that effect) of "where it should". Short of a setting issue, I'm not sure there is much you can do to get accuracy back, other than sending it back to the manufacturer for repair (if there is a problem).

As you think about the new features, here's something else to throw into the mix. Garmin's map updates now ship exclusively on DVD instead of CD-ROM. I just received my update for CitySelect, and I can't use it. Even with six computers--three of them purchased this year--none is configured for DVD. They can be retrofitted, of course, but this is an extra expense. This situation slipped up on me. To me, DVD meant "movies", and I certainly did not want folks in my office watching a flick on company time. Of course, the DVD makes map distribution easier, since one disk can replace two CD-ROM's. I'll get my computer team to install a drive on one of the new machines. But the delay is frustrating, as well as having to pony up more money. I'm certain the other GPS map vendors will be using DVD in the future--if they are not already doing so. Bottom line: If a new computer is in your future, specify a CD-ROM/DVD player, if you have that option. You'll be needing it--no matter how old your GPS receiver happens to be! -Paul- A common misconception... DVD to many people means Digital Video Disc. The acronym actually stands for Digital Versatile Disc. Much the same, as when CD-ROMS appeared in computers, and most people thought a CD was strictly an audio disc. Interesting note: when I purchased my most recent computer a couple months ago, all the discs (backup software) that came with the CPU were DVDs and not CDs.

Since I live in Chillicothe, Ohio - the first & third capital of Ohio - I'll take the Ohio Historical Markers, if noone else has laid claim to it.

I've searched for quite a few of those "non-PID" marks found on topo maps, and had pretty decent success at finding them. Especially, when compared to looking for PID marks, from GPS coordinates, and without a datasheet. In my area, most seem to be located on bridge abutments, and a careful inspection of which side of the road, ect the "X" lies upon, leaves a good clue as to where the mark may be located. "A picture is worth a thousand words." If it's still there, it's pretty much been a case of "walk right up to it". I find it to be a pretty fun challenge, though there's little practical point to it, since there really isnt anyone to report the find to. Which is why I mostly hunt for PID marks, and report my findings to the NGS. Most of the non-PID marks I find, are during my outings working on my NMC quad, or while i'm out caching and referencing Topo maps.

Sounds more like letterboxing, to me. There's been a number of caches I've found, that the coordinates were way off. Times like those, the GPS was useless anyways. But there have been several that I've hunted, that I didnt bother with the GPS - just reading the cache page, I knew the approx. location of the hide. Upon arrival, it merely look a little looking around, before finding. Some areas, I've walked right to the cache w/o the help of a GPS.

This is how I built mine: PC Connector (9pin sub D) - Foretrex connector (2.5mm stereo plug) Pin 2 - Tip Pin 3 - Ring Pin 5 - Shield / Ground All parts can be found at your friendly neighborhood radio shack or other electronics supplier.

I'm not sure what "user issues with support" you speak of, about NG Topo, so I cannot comment. I had read somewhere (here in the GC forums) several Mac users had success with the NG Series. The software seems to work well, and I have not needed any kind of support for it. I had not heard much about Mac GPS Pro. The lack of a demo also left me feeling uneasy about ordering the software. I dont mean anything bad by that statement - but to choose between a product I've heard nothign about and cant try before I buy, and one that I've heard positive feedback upon, the choice to me was clear. Other than occasional crashes, I'm completely satisfied with NG Topo. I was able to get it to work, with very little difficulty, with a Keyspan USB/Serial converter, and at least 1/2 dozen different GPS units, in both Garmin and NMEA protocols. I've transferred waypoints both in/out of the GPS. Live tracking / moving map works well. I realize I have not answered your actual question. My apologies.

I use the Keyspan USB/Serial converter on my iBook G3 (10.2.8), and NG Topo. I"ve heard both success/failure reports with the Keyspan Units on the Mac, but I've had no problems with it, in any software I've used. I've successfully used it with a Garmin GPS38, GPS45, eTrex Vista, ForeTrex 101, and a NMEA unit. It the Topo Mac GPS setup screen, I just select "serial A" and the appropriate GPS Unit. It is much the same on the PC, except typically "COM1" The serial to usb converters emulate a regular serial port, once the driver is installed. So it should appear as a regular serial port (com1 / serial a) to your software. You shouldnt need to "select anything USB". I've used USB/Serial converters in MANY applications (some very special "industry specific" applications). Except for one compatability issue (a belkin converter on a Mac, no appropriate driver), these units have always worked as described. Load the driver, plug it in, and away you go.

I've had an interest in benchmarks, ever since coming across one many years ago. I also have a great interest in the outdoors, and vistiting historical sites (such as old brick kilns, iron furnaces, ghost towns, abandonded ???, ect). I happened across geocaching while trying to find an abandonded railroad tunnel, from there, I found the benchmarking part. Since then, I've found that the search for benchmarks has yielded numerous interesting sites, and I've met many people, both here in the formus, and in the field. I've learned alot. I report many of my finds to the NGS, which gives me the satisfaction of doing something that someone may benefit from. I still enjoy geocaching. It seems to me that there is so much more to find/see/do with benchmarks.

Other than this being in the wrong forum.. Do a search - this has been brought up a number of times, and if I recall correctly, there are at least a dozen "scuba caches"... There are a number of threads (from the past) that mention specific names. I was planning one myself, for a local quarry. It involved diving at 2 specific coordinates, gathering some "information", then using that data to arrive at the final stage (dry). I ran out of time, to complete it for this season (Ohio, need I say more?) I used an Otterbox to protect my GPS while submerged, and took readings from directly above the location.

These "adult" categories are getting to be a hot topic! *getting my popcorn*

Such a layout might make it easier to manage/filter/ignore.

Just to throw my $.01 into the account.... Censor, no. Filter, yes, for those who choose. As long as nobody is being harmed, I dont care. (Meaning, as long as a site is safe to visit, it should be allowed, IMHO.) Edited to remain ON-topic.

I like it. The Ohio & Erie canal made it's way through my hometown. Many buildings, parts of locks, feeder dams, and even the canal "ditch" still exists in many places. There is even a road "Three locks road" that owes its name to the canal days. Sounds like a good education experience.