Bluespreacher

quote:Originally posted by BrianSnat:I've been Geocaching for almost a year. I have over 40 finds and over two dozen hides. I think I can offer great advice, so why is it that nobody takes me seriously in these forums? You don't understand! Everyone takes you very seriously. We hang on every word. We just keep it secret! Keep the good advice coming, Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by ifranz:I just returned from a climbing trip where I created a cache. I feet that it a 5 difficulty and terrain, I’d like other peoples opinion. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=31249&Nocache=0.7055475 Here are a few other points to consider: At minimum it takes 3 hours for a veteran climber to safely climb to the top. The max speed you could achieve is 500 ft per hour. It could easily take twice as long for a climber not familiar with the area. Planning the climb takes extensive research and preparation; you have to research each pitch that you will be climbing and have the appropriate climbing equipment. The cache is out in the “open” but go 5 feet in any direction from the cache and you’ll fall 50-1000 feet. We were watching hawks surfing the breeze 200 feet below us. It’s a very unique area. The cache can’t be reached by an individual - unless they had a death wish It requires that a team of two or more to coordinate their communication and movement to maintain safety. Lead climb (climbing where there is no support from above) takes a tremendous amount of physical ability, specialized knowledge, and hundreds of dollars in climbing equipment. A cacher with no climbing experience could easily spend a year learning how to safely attempt this cache. I feel that from a safety standpoint alone the cache warrants a 5/5. I completely support maintaining high standards, but I don’t want anyone to have any misconceptions about what they’re getting into. [This message was edited by ifranz on August 04, 2002 at 06:49 PM.] Here's how I see it after reading the info: It's an easy find, once you get there. Getting there is of course, a real booger. From what I read, a 5 for terrain means that special equipment is needed ( climbing gear, scuba gear, etc,). A 5 for difficulty means that special problem solving skills are required. These might be Calculus, Astro Physics, FORTRAN, or Mayan mythology. Maybe all of the above. Some like the really hard terrain, some like devilish problems of the mental sort. Some like a combo of both. Some like me are under-equipped for either of those! Keep on Caching, Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by ifranz:I just returned from a climbing trip where I created a cache. I feet that it a 5 difficulty and terrain, I’d like other peoples opinion. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=31249&Nocache=0.7055475 Here are a few other points to consider: At minimum it takes 3 hours for a veteran climber to safely climb to the top. The max speed you could achieve is 500 ft per hour. It could easily take twice as long for a climber not familiar with the area. Planning the climb takes extensive research and preparation; you have to research each pitch that you will be climbing and have the appropriate climbing equipment. The cache is out in the “open” but go 5 feet in any direction from the cache and you’ll fall 50-1000 feet. We were watching hawks surfing the breeze 200 feet below us. It’s a very unique area. The cache can’t be reached by an individual - unless they had a death wish It requires that a team of two or more to coordinate their communication and movement to maintain safety. Lead climb (climbing where there is no support from above) takes a tremendous amount of physical ability, specialized knowledge, and hundreds of dollars in climbing equipment. A cacher with no climbing experience could easily spend a year learning how to safely attempt this cache. I feel that from a safety standpoint alone the cache warrants a 5/5. I completely support maintaining high standards, but I don’t want anyone to have any misconceptions about what they’re getting into. [This message was edited by ifranz on August 04, 2002 at 06:49 PM.] Here's how I see it after reading the info: It's an easy find, once you get there. Getting there is of course, a real booger. From what I read, a 5 for terrain means that special equipment is needed ( climbing gear, scuba gear, etc,). A 5 for difficulty means that special problem solving skills are required. These might be Calculus, Astro Physics, FORTRAN, or Mayan mythology. Maybe all of the above. Some like the really hard terrain, some like devilish problems of the mental sort. Some like a combo of both. Some like me are under-equipped for either of those! Keep on Caching, Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

I can't believe that I read clear to the end before I noticed that all the posts (except the last) were from 2001! That's it, I'm shutting the 'puter down NOW! Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

I can't believe that I read clear to the end before I noticed that all the posts (except the last) were from 2001! That's it, I'm shutting the 'puter down NOW! Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by Sketch:Here it is: http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=16190&Nocache=0.7055475 Tried to come up with something different. After I got the idea, it took some time to find the right item to attach the bug too. I also put instructions for the bug on the back. What do you think? I think it's great! I hope to see it around here someday. Maybe this Winter. I can just picture us curled up around a steaming mug! Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by Criminal:I am interested to know if PC caches are as big a concern as they seem to be in some of the posts I've read. I've pasted my last rant on the subject below. I'm interest to hear opinions on this subject and some ideas on the "perfect" cache in PC terms. It's all I can do not to type IN ALL CAPS! Who cares how threatening a cache container looks!?!? My son’s cache was a surplus wooden rocket box painted in camo colors. To someone paranoid I bet it looks VERY threatening. But guess what? I DON’T CARE! There seems to be some creepy sort of political correctness working it’s way into this hobby. “Don’t put your cache near any broken glass.” “Don’t put your cache where a branch may become dislodged from it’s tree.” “Find happy non-threatening cache containers.” ~!@# that. I became interested in geocaching because it offered adventure. Adventure can be dangerous, and so apparently is common sense. (What terrorist is going to bomb an old stump deep in the woods?) As long as it’s identified as a cache container (GEOCACHE written on the outside for example) then why worry about it? At the rate geocaching is growing it’s inevitable that someone somewhere will use the hobby or some portion thereof for an unlawful act. What then? Jeremy going to pull the plug on the whole thing? Are we going to kill it off with rules and regulations? I’ve said it before; it does NOT take a village to place a cache. I believe that if a person has enough brain matter to work their GPSr then they probably have enough to plunk down a cache without creating an international incident. I’m sure everyone is aware of recent events and won’t be putting an ammo can up in the supports of a local bridge. Duh. I am aware of my idealistic leanings, that I prefer to believe the best about people until I’m shown otherwise. That’s why I think this is such a non-issue. Whew, glad I got that off my chest. Sorry to all. ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< What is the price of experience, do men buy it for a song, Or wisdom for a dance in the street................. Turn the Caps Lock off now, and nobody will get hurt! Maybe it's time to lighten up. Geocachers are part of their own community, and a part of the 'community' at large. We can't go around with a 'What! Me worry?' attitude. It doesn't take a lot of thought to realize that your adventure to a cache is not the same as my 3 year old nephew's, or my wife's, or my impatient 30 year old son's. Will somebody feel threatened by an ammo can in a city park? You bet. Not me, not you, but folks in general may not know what to think. Sure, you can take the Bull-in-the-Woods attitude that you don't care what Mom and Toddlers think when they stumble over an urban cache, but is it helpful to our community? So you have a rocket box as a cache. If it's in a well-travelled spot that I can take my nephew to, I bet you will have problems with it. If it's out in some remote area that I've (by myself)hiked two hours to get to, I bet there will never be a word said. Just like real estate -- Location, location, location! The point is (See!) all of us have to think how our caches will be perceived by folks that may stumble on them. I prefer ammo boxes, I also prefer a good hike to a cache. For high traffic areas -- use good judgment, IMHO. Keep on Caching, Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

When I released my three Bugs, I didn't really give any thought to what to do with them when they got to their goal. One of them is in a cache in it's goal city. Now what do I do? What have you done? Can I give it a new goal? Should someone else adopt it? Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by Team WO9LF:I stopped at one of my Caches today after the last 2 visitors said it required maintaince. Someone actually stoled the Ammo Box! The Ammo box was actually inside another container for camo. They left the Cache and all its contents inside ziplock bags, stuffed it into its camo, and took it! This ever happen to anyone else? I am glad that I was alone and did not bring one of my friends that is interested in learning about the "Sport". That sure would have made an impression, huh? Oh well, live and learn I guess! If the person that took it happens to read this, am I mad at you? No, because I am a really nice guy. (I am slapping you on the wrist though, but you just can't see.) I am actually embarrassed for you! If you really need a 4$ Ammo box that bad, let me know and I will buy you one if you give mine back so I dont have to re-paint another. I hope this doesn't happen to anyone else!! It's just kinda annoying, you know? (Rant Off!) Laugh now, but I've got plenty to do when I'm the last person on the planet I've not seen that. Maybe they considered the ammo box to be a 'trinket'? Did they trade up? Did they sign the log book? (took cache box, left McToy, signed log book) Hang in there, I don't think this kind of behavior is common (I hope). Keep on caching, Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by Team WO9LF:I stopped at one of my Caches today after the last 2 visitors said it required maintaince. Someone actually stoled the Ammo Box! The Ammo box was actually inside another container for camo. They left the Cache and all its contents inside ziplock bags, stuffed it into its camo, and took it! This ever happen to anyone else? I am glad that I was alone and did not bring one of my friends that is interested in learning about the "Sport". That sure would have made an impression, huh? Oh well, live and learn I guess! If the person that took it happens to read this, am I mad at you? No, because I am a really nice guy. (I am slapping you on the wrist though, but you just can't see.) I am actually embarrassed for you! If you really need a 4$ Ammo box that bad, let me know and I will buy you one if you give mine back so I dont have to re-paint another. I hope this doesn't happen to anyone else!! It's just kinda annoying, you know? (Rant Off!) Laugh now, but I've got plenty to do when I'm the last person on the planet I've not seen that. Maybe they considered the ammo box to be a 'trinket'? Did they trade up? Did they sign the log book? (took cache box, left McToy, signed log book) Hang in there, I don't think this kind of behavior is common (I hope). Keep on caching, Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by azog: quote:Originally posted by Macduff:There is already a cache hidden in the Great Swamp. I am going to travel to NJ in a couple of weeks, and it is at the top of my list. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=10167 .... snip .... But back to the topic, I think I am going to forget my idea for this one, based on our discussions. The land is set aside primarily for wildlife. Some paths are blazed, and the public is welcomed, but that's secondary. Also, they shut down some of the land during the deer population control phases (read: deer hunts). Hmmm. This is a wildlife refuge that is open to hunting? It's hard to imagine that a few geocachers could possible have comparable impact. You say that it is a 2 mile hike in and 2 out, my guess is that a cache placed there will see fewer that 20 seekers in a year. Most folks, even cachers will not walk that far, IMHO. Do what you like as far as placing the cache, but I think it would be OK to go for it! Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by solohiker:I like guns and knives. I don't carry them as defensive weapons usually. I never learned the art of the quick draw. I know that there are cachers who do carry defensive weapons and I was wondering how they carried them efficently and/or effectively. In a backpacking situation, humping a 3 pound pistol is just extra weight and normally not very accessible. It just doesn't seem practical. Even a day hike/geocache seems problematic. Any tips? I don't do guns, but I carry pepper spray when I cache. Mostly I'm concerned about dogs, but ps might be efective on people if they didn't take it away from me! Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by PioneerGal:My son and I went caching recently and he was stung twice by bees. Since I carry the all purpose first aid kit we did fine with the patching up of the wound (such as they were) and moved on. The idea being that the cache would make him feel better. We got to the cache, found it and were severely disappointed. It was just full of junk. About 5 used and dirty toys, one band-aid and the logbook. The cache container was a nice large one, but it was barely 1/2 full. The opposite of that occurred also, we found a cache close to our home and the contents were good quality (computer mouse, cd, travel bug, state quarters, etc...). Both high and low quality caches are out there. It's up to us to improve some and maintain others. I think the responsibility is to trade fair, but not many people are responsible. I'm glad you found good caches, too. Younger ones really get into the stash part of geocaching, so I can only imagine how he was feeling after bee stings and a junky cache. But it is an opportunity to teach about the 'trade up' philosophy. I've noticed that young ones often understand more than we credit them for! Keep on caching, Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by PioneerGal:My son and I went caching recently and he was stung twice by bees. Since I carry the all purpose first aid kit we did fine with the patching up of the wound (such as they were) and moved on. The idea being that the cache would make him feel better. We got to the cache, found it and were severely disappointed. It was just full of junk. About 5 used and dirty toys, one band-aid and the logbook. The cache container was a nice large one, but it was barely 1/2 full. The opposite of that occurred also, we found a cache close to our home and the contents were good quality (computer mouse, cd, travel bug, state quarters, etc...). Both high and low quality caches are out there. It's up to us to improve some and maintain others. I think the responsibility is to trade fair, but not many people are responsible. I'm glad you found good caches, too. Younger ones really get into the stash part of geocaching, so I can only imagine how he was feeling after bee stings and a junky cache. But it is an opportunity to teach about the 'trade up' philosophy. I've noticed that young ones often understand more than we credit them for! Keep on caching, Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

Confession time. I thought I could save a buck on cache containers by buying those nifty plastic containers. They're small, easy to hide, and durable. Yeah, right! I have used four plastic fantastic containers for caches. To make a long story short -- two of them have utterly failed. That's 50% failure rate if you are the kind to keep track. I was careful to buy good stuff, not cheap. It didn't matter. The critters got them! Now I've got to spring for a real cache box (30 cal.) at the Surplus store and trek to the sites and try to fix everything. I don't mind cache maintainance, but this is not what I had in mind! Also, there are other plastic caches around here that have -- failed. I put the remains of one in a 30 cal. this last weekend. It was either that or archive it. Anyway, plastic may be OK in some instances, but ammo cans are best if you want everything to stay intact. Keep on Caching, Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

Confession time. I thought I could save a buck on cache containers by buying those nifty plastic containers. They're small, easy to hide, and durable. Yeah, right! I have used four plastic fantastic containers for caches. To make a long story short -- two of them have utterly failed. That's 50% failure rate if you are the kind to keep track. I was careful to buy good stuff, not cheap. It didn't matter. The critters got them! Now I've got to spring for a real cache box (30 cal.) at the Surplus store and trek to the sites and try to fix everything. I don't mind cache maintainance, but this is not what I had in mind! Also, there are other plastic caches around here that have -- failed. I put the remains of one in a 30 cal. this last weekend. It was either that or archive it. Anyway, plastic may be OK in some instances, but ammo cans are best if you want everything to stay intact. Keep on Caching, Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by Eric O'Connor:You all are probably going to be shocked by what I'm about to say.... I used to teach Sunday school and I could thump a Bible in three part harmony back then. I never did care for Chick tracks or many of the bumper stickers that they sold at the Christian bookstores. I used to buy those inexpensive New Testiment Bibles and gift wrap them, accidently on purpose leaving them on the roof of my car. I must have averaged about 100 Bibles a year with that method, but I figured that anyone who would steal a present off a car roof could use a little talking to. My phone number was written inside with "Call if you just need to talk with someone" If you really want to reach out to heathen dog geocachers such as yours truly. A personal testimony of what your life was like before, why things are better now, maybe a FAQ of the questions we all ask... Combine all of that into a nice printout on decent paper. Fold it into something that will keep the weather off of it and use that as your geocaching signature item. This might seem like a weird thing to say in this context but make sure you don't put anything in that testimony that would be alarming to children. I think you are hitting pretty close to the bone here. Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):Ok, here's the issue. The http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=10838 cache, which I believe was originally just "take a state quarter, leave a state quarter" cache became a kind of charity cache. Once the quarters were placed they would be gathered and donated to a charity. I've been having a conversation with a geocacher who believes this cache should be archived since the owner has not indicated donating the money. The geocacher tried to contact the owner with no response (after adequate time allowed to respond). What should be done in this case? I can archive it (easily), but the cache will still be there. I'm concerned with charity caches in general. It makes no sense to me to leave money out in the woods, and hope the owner is honest enough to hand it to a charity. There are obviously other ways to give to a community/org. It's one of many reasons why we have policies on this sort of cache. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location I've read all the posts till now and I don't see what the problem is. What if the money isn't given to a charity? What if it is stolen? So what? Many seem to find it to be a fun thing to do with their very own money. There is no deceit in the cache desription, any who want to skip this cache may do so. Give the cacher time to respond, we all get busy. Is the cache neglected? Are people logging that it is empty or plundered? If not, how is it different from any other popular cache? Some have expressed concern that charity caches may get to be a big problem. I doubt it. Besides, we're no where near that. So, IMHO, leave it be, there's no harm done here. Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):Ok, here's the issue. The http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=10838 cache, which I believe was originally just "take a state quarter, leave a state quarter" cache became a kind of charity cache. Once the quarters were placed they would be gathered and donated to a charity. I've been having a conversation with a geocacher who believes this cache should be archived since the owner has not indicated donating the money. The geocacher tried to contact the owner with no response (after adequate time allowed to respond). What should be done in this case? I can archive it (easily), but the cache will still be there. I'm concerned with charity caches in general. It makes no sense to me to leave money out in the woods, and hope the owner is honest enough to hand it to a charity. There are obviously other ways to give to a community/org. It's one of many reasons why we have policies on this sort of cache. Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location I've read all the posts till now and I don't see what the problem is. What if the money isn't given to a charity? What if it is stolen? So what? Many seem to find it to be a fun thing to do with their very own money. There is no deceit in the cache desription, any who want to skip this cache may do so. Give the cacher time to respond, we all get busy. Is the cache neglected? Are people logging that it is empty or plundered? If not, how is it different from any other popular cache? Some have expressed concern that charity caches may get to be a big problem. I doubt it. Besides, we're no where near that. So, IMHO, leave it be, there's no harm done here. Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by The Alpha Operator:Hey there, this is Alpha. I have quite a few great audio taped sermons by a few really good preachers (Seventh-Day Adventist, Protestant Christian) like Doug Batchelor, Clifford Goldstein, etcetera. They are on quite a few topics, one that helped me quite a lot was about anger, and another was about prayer. I'm going to rip many others (1 hour long, approx) into WMA and RA format, and toast them onto compact (200mb, 8cm) CDs. I thought about putting one or two of these in my cache for people who might like them. Anyhoo, now, I'm not talking about a religious cache, I've heard of these before, caches stuffed with religious materials, etcetera. Now I'm not talking about doing that. I'm just curious if someone would not like to find a CD or two in a cache like that. CODENAME: ALPHA OPERATOR daedalus://govlink/secure/majestic/12.12.12/ops/throne/AO MAJESTIC-12: THRONE G6 LEVEL AGENT http://www.planetdeusex.com There was a *very* lively thread on this not long ago. (Zip up your flame proof suit!) Personally, I think it's fine to leave items related to spiritual themes in caches. Don't overwhelm, be considerate. I have left tracts in some of *my* caches. I don't mind seeing religious stuff in other's caches. If it is going to be an "all religious" cache, be sure to say so in the description. BTW, why is this in the "Unusual" section, not "General"? Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by Markwell: If you are not a troll, and you are being serious, I'll answer you in a straight tone... I personally don't think that leaving prescription medication in a cache would be a good idea. It has more potential to do harm than good. People are, in general, stupid when it comes to medication. Many still believe that "if a little is good, a lot is better" or "I missed my first dose today, so I'll take two now." If a doctor hasn't prescribed your precise medication taking in to account allergies, other medications, etc. AND the proper dose for the particular ailment, body size, etc., it could indeed to great harm. Further evidence? What about caches plundered by animals (I can just imagine some poor raccoon doing a Fred Sanders impersonation - "It's the big one!" and clutching his heart). More? Kids cache. Really young kids (mine's two). Look daddy, Chicklets. If you are in earnest about this for cache contents, I would strongly suggest you reconsider. If I ever came across prescription medication in a cache, the first stop after cleaning it all out of the cache would be the nearest toilet to flush it. http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/marklent60544/myhomepage/Geocaching/markwellcachemain.htm http://www.chicagogeocaching.com The thought does have some merit. Not for a cache, of course, but is there anyway to 'recycle' expensive meds? I know the risks and dangers, but it would be a good thing to help. Again, not in caches -- some 'official' chanel. Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by The Leprechauns: Clicking on this page in your "Favorites" list opens a crack in the time/space continuum that makes "Being John Malkovich" look like a cartoon with stick drawings. If you are male, clicking will draw you into a vortex and eventually deposit you in the parking lot of a Denny's in Muskingum, Oklahoma. You will be wearing a nice coordinated Laura Ashley print dress and hat, and a Magellan 315 will be stuffed in your brassiere with the kleenexes. (It was that last part that I'm still shook up about.) Fifteen minutes later, you are returned to your computer chair. I am not sure what will happen if you click on the bookmark and you are female. My Little Leprechaun said there is no way she would try that. Then she helped me fix my mascara. x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x- "Next time, instead of getting married, I think I'll just find a woman I don't like and buy her a house." Sounds like a great way to get a new GPSr! Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by n8aho: Does anyone use an frs radio while geocaching? Is there an official geocaching channel? j. Could have used it yesterday! Wife waited on trail while I bushwacked to cache. I thought she was headed for car, so after I found cache, I headed cross country to trail. After I got to car -- no wife! Had to hike back 1/2 mile to get her. It's radio for us soon! Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by majicman: THIS IS THE THREAD! Hello, Welcome, We're glad you made it! (To the FUTURE that is!!) .... snip .... --majicman (Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!) [This message was edited by majicman on July 11, 2002 at 10:23 PM.] Maybe there should be a Bozo section in the forums! It's OK, their speaking Chinese! Always enjoy your posts, even if your purse and shoes clash sometimes. Keep on Caching, Ralph Spoilsport "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer

quote:Originally posted by majicman: Oh dear, Please - whatever you do, don't get the "Yellow" ETrex. If you wear a red skirt, it will clash! Oh, the drama! Trust me, Mag 315 - basic black; goes with anything and will match your high heels beautifully. I bought a pair of Nazi style high heels that have the same shape as that sweet little antenna nub on the Maggie... oh - heaven! I get really hot reception if I gently rub that little nub of an antenna it has... Wait, I feel light headed and think I may faint... oooooohhhhhhhh....(plop) --majicman (Always trade UP in both quantity and quality and Geocaches will be both self-sustaining and self-improving!) Oh, sure, bring fashion sense into it! My Legend matches my eyes (Blue not 16 shades of gray). The antenna thing sounds like an incentive, though! Who knew? Bluespreacher "We've got the hardware and the software, the plans and the maps ..." -- Citizen Wayne Kramer