Kewaneh & Shark

I've found caches that have had a 'surprise factor' to them. That 'surprise' has made them memorable, and distinguished them from the many I've found that have blended together in my memory. I do not think that a 'surprise' should add to the difficulty of a cache. Both GC.com and ClayJar (and other) have ratings systems to determine the difficulty of a cache, however if the 'surprise' also acts as camo, the camo should be considered in the difficulty rating. That being said, as someone who lives in an area with rattlesnakes, caches in an area with rattlesnakes, and who works outside and frequently finds rattlesnakes, finding one would not surprise me. However, when I see a rattlesnake, I don't hesitate for a moment to see if it's a fake. It quickly gets multiple hits with whatever stick, shovel, or sidearm I have in my hand. The hitting doesn't stop until I see multiple pieces of snake, or possibly in this case, McToys, flying through the air. If the cache is hidden in a fake snake, it may make good camo, and an embarassing (or entertaining) cache log. - Kewaneh

You'll find lots of information about metal detectors and using them for locating benchmarks in these past threads. - Kewaneh

Team Alamo - 27118 finds and 414 hides to date.

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From their About Us page: It looks to be a public forum search engine. I don't know what to make of it past that. - Kewaneh

In order for a surveyor to perform work along a State Route or Highway (in California) CalTrans (CDOT) requires a permit. Many surveyors don't have them, but they are required. Most LEOs leave us alone - they have more important things to do - but CalTrans employees (particularly Right-of-Way field Engineers and Permit Agents) do stop and talk to us if they feel we are within and/or too close to their Right-of-Ways. I have been "talked to" on-site by permit agents, who were called by other CalTrans employees who saw us working. I have also been asked to cease work (only once) as I didn't have a current permit. (I had one leg of my tripod in the Right-of-Way! The rest of my equipment, including my truck, was outside of the CalTrans Right-of-Way. Two days and a $250 permit later, and I was back finishing the job.) Caltrans does not issue permits for surveyors to work on major highways or interstates for work unrelated to the highway itself; only CalTrans survey crews are allowed there. In California, there are many Public lands along State Routes, however, that does not mean that the lands are legally accessable from those State Routes. The land must be accessed by a legal ingress/egress along the State Route. Parking on the shoulder is only to be for emergencies and leaving the car will get it tagged as abandoned and ticketed quickly. I imagine that California has a law similar to the North Carolina law stated by WWFLover13. It would probably be safe to assume that most States have a similar law. All that said, if you are worried about leaving your car on the side of the road, have someone drop you off and then pick you back up an hour later at the same spot. As far as talking to an LEO about what you're doing: just be honest. You could talk to LEOs about access and they may not care, but be prepared to hear that they don't want you there. And if they tell you "no" and then find you there, you'd be worse off. You could wear a vest and pretend to pick up trash, but most of the Adopt-a-Highway people need permits too. You could also put flashing lights on an Acura, a VW bus, or a '63 Studebaker Lark, for all that goes. From a safety standpoint it's all good, but it may actually draw more attention to you from persons in authority. You may "look like you belong" to the general public, but to those who work on the highways daily (LEOs, DOT workers, etc.), you may stick out like the proverbial sore thumb. - Kewaneh

Yes, that is correct. This is also a Standard Corner, but it's also an exception as it is also an angle point. It may be labeled as such with an added "AP". In theory, there aren't angles in townships. In reality, they are common, particularly at the quarter corners immediately south and east of township lines, but they are not always labeled or identified. It should be said here that it is very common to find exceptions rather than rules when dealing with the Public Land Survey System. In some areas more than others. Those exceptions are not the result of poor surveying, in fact they are (usually) quite the opposite. The exceptions are the result of applying a theoretical square figure (township/range/section) onto a circle (the earth's surface) subdivided by parallel lines of latitude and converging lines of longitude. Combined with many natural obstacles (rugged mountainous areas, rivers, etc.) and manmade political obstacles (ie. reservation and rancho lines) this proved to be a difficult task. The PLSS Manual of Instructions was developed to assist the Government surveyor combine that theory to the world's reality. As confusing as some of it may be, there is a rhyme and reason to all of it. (That rhyme and reason also applies to the development of benchmark systems and triangulation networks.) Given the working conditions many of the surveyor's endured, and the tools they had to use (when compared to modern equipment), and the rules they had to apply (theoretical, mathmatical, and physical, and legal) in order to get their work completed, what they accomplished was nothing short of miraculous, and in most cases, perfect. Modern equipment cannot replicate what they did any better (but it does make it easier). - Kewaneh

A corner common to four Townships, common to Sections 1, 6, 31, & 36, would never be a Closing Corner. They are positioned prior to any interior Section Corners and control the position of any and all interior Section and Closing Corners. - Kewaneh

Closing corners are to be stamped "CC" per the PLSS Manual of Instructions. This corner is, as CallawayMT stated, a Standard Corner. Interior sections within a Township are, by design, laid out from the southeast corner of the township to the North and West. Error in exterior Township line alignment are accounted for within the most northerly and westerly sections within that Township. Closing Corners generally only fall on the northerly line of a Township, (and along the westerly Township line in some of the earlier laid-out [early 1800's] Townships). As such, it is not uncommon for the lines of the Northerly Sections of one Township to be mis-aligned with the lines of the Southerly Sections of the adjoining Township to the north. Closing Corners are used to define the Section Lines lying south of the Township line, where Standard Corners are used to define the Section Lines lying north of that Township line. As I said in my earlier post though, closing corners can fall on lines where PLSS lands are adjacent to other, non-PLSS lands. That means, by exception, they can be just about anywhere within a township, placed from any direction, not just the South or East. Correct stamping per PLSS instructions, along with properly executed mapping proceedure, can be very critical on corners where exceptions are the rule. By looking at the topo map for the area of the corners Mesa Mike is showing, it looks like there could be many rule exceptions around there. - Kewaneh

That's possible. Closing Corners are generally used for section line alignment only and not for true position of the boundary line being closed on. The boundary of the Baca Location would be defined by the property monuments for the Baca Location. The true position of the westerly end of the Section Line would be where the Baca Location boundary line intersected the East/West section line (in this case, it's actually a Township line) as defined by the Closing Corner and the next PLSS monument to the east. A Closing Corner could be either west or east of that true position. - Kewaneh

The APPROXIMATE location of that mark can be SEEN HERE. - Kewaneh

"CC" stamped onto a Public Lands Survey System (or General Land Office aka GLO) monument stands for "Closing Corner". Closing corners generally fall on township boundaries, or where townships or PLSS lands are adjacent to other, non-PLSS lands, such as Spanish Land Grant Ranchos or Indian Reservations. In this case, the land West of the monument is identified as the Baca Location No. 1 on the USGS topo maps. This mark is identifying the Closing Corner (CC) for the Southwesterly Corner of Section 34 (S34), Township 19 North (T19N), Range 5 East (R5E), and the Northwesterly Corner of Section 3 (S3), Township 18 North (T18N), Range 5 East (R5E), New Mexico Base & Meridian, adjoining the easterly boundary of Baca Location (BL) No. 1. - Kewaneh

Kewaneh: Professional Land Surveyor. (Much of the rest of the world calls us Geomatics Engineers or Geomaticians.) Shark: Domestic Engineer & Scrapbooker

Trig Points cannot be logged on Geocache.com. They can be logged on Waymarking.com. - Kewaneh

Been there. Done that. Got the bruises to prove it. Only I don't stop at benchmarks; all survey marks are included. PLSS sections corners, property corners, street monuments, aerial targets, etc. It's an occupational hazard... and a curse.

Product #46754 & product #46755 are identical except for the bit length - 12" long vs 16" long. Bits 4" longer cost $5 bucks more. If you only plan on using them once, just auger the bits after the hole is the depth you want. Twist the drill side to side in the hole and force it larger. You'll most likely destroy the bits in the process. Or you could start with some smaller pilot holes around the perimeter of a 1-1/4" hole, then drill out the center with the 1" bit. - Kewaneh

Surveyor's may have used a magnetic compass, but they generally refence True North. If magnetic is used, it would be stated as such. Surveyors only use eight-point compass headings as a general direction for location. Surveyors use bearings broken into four, 90 degree quadrants - NE, SE, SW, & NW - based on True North. Surveyors also use azimuth bearings, which is essentially a one-point compass based on True North. On a day to day basis, most surveyors use a compass with 1,296,000 points. (DD MM SS = 360x60x60 = 1,296,000 points). One reason (of many) why surveyors use True North. In a situation like frex3wv described, that's probably what happened. It's relatively easy to determine which side of a road or canal is the easterly or westerly side (or northerly or souththerly side). It's highly unlikely that any surveyor got out a compass to determine the east abutment from the west abutment. - Kewaneh

I've never met a surveyor with a big budget. ... or worked for one. ... or been one for that matter. - Kewaneh

Harbor Freight 6 PC. SDS MASONRY BIT SET $9.99 - 6" long by 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", and 3/4" 5 PC. SDS MASONRY BIT SET $15.99 - 16" long by 5/16", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4", 1" 5 PC. 3/16" TO 1/2" MASONRY BIT SET $3.99 - 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", 3/18" and 1/2"

Where exactly is that visitor's center? Which National Monument? - Kewaneh

From the GC.com Benchmark page & FAQs: A word of warning: don't try to digest the whole Benchmark FAQs at one time. It may overwhelm you. If you have any questions about the benchmarks (or any other survey marks) you find, ask them in the benchmark forum. There are many knowledgable people there to help. - Kewaneh

Info and contact numbers for the U.S. Department of the Interior, Bureau of Reclamation, Mid-Pacific Region's Central California Area Office can be found on their webpage. They may be able to point you in the right direction. - Kewaneh

It's a temporary triangulation or traverse point, not a property corner. - Kewaneh

Speaking of the PN-20, there is a review of it in this month's survey trade magazine POB. It can be read HERE. It is written from a surveyor's/GIS user's point of view, but benchmarkers may find it helpful too. - Kewaneh

A picture would help to be sure, but I don't think what you've found are benchmarks. Some municipalities and private utility districts place permanent, above ground markers to help locate their underground facilities. I've seen where marks are placed on the tops of curbs as 'offsets' to underground lines, ie: the underground sewer line is 20' east of the mark on the curb (and 7' below the surface). However, most municipalities just use the curb face as the mark (ie: sewer is placed 8' from the west curb and the water is placed 6' from the east curb). In most (all) cases, before any construction is performed in an area, an underground service alert organization is called and the utility companies are requested to mark the locations of any utilities they may have in the area. A mark on a curb would help that agency locate their utilities. - Kewaneh