Ianatlarge

@Torgut. It is your right to vote as you wish, but to vote solely on whether or not you believe that a majority of waymarkers will be able to waymark in a particular category is too restrictive. There are many categories, a sizeable minority, which cannot be waymarked by members, for whatever reason. For example, there are hordes of USA specific categories, that non-usa members would have little opportunity to waymark. As for timeballs, they are a global category. They are or were found in every major port in the world, and many minor. I just took a look at the time cannon and time gun association website, and there are two time balls in Lisbon: Arsenal da Marinha, Cais do Sodré & (Balão) Observatorio. If you are interested. In the review you mentioned that you were 47 years old and had visited over 40 countries. I am 47, plus ;lkjl;kjk years old, and have visited 62 countries (2 of which I had to leave hurriedly—but as the late science fiction author, Mack Reynolds once wrote, in a similar disclosure, never for a dishonourable reason). I have seen (before my Waymarking days) time balls in several of these countries, plus in Australia. It was my chance discovery of a time ball in Singapore, that prompted me to propose the category. They are not prominent, but they are visible, and some, such as cannons, attract tourists and have a measure of fame. Time balls and cannons do exist in the hundreds around the world. They have an important history and played a significant role in world affairs in their day. They do deserve to be waymarked. In one day of operation the category has six waymarks, on four continents, from six different waymarkers, . I will take this to mean that at least some of our members approve of the category.

Good news, the Time Signals category is now online, functioning, and accepting waymarks. In fact, I woke up this morning and found two (and now two more) waiting to be approved. Waymarkers never sleep haha. Thanks to everyone who gave feedback and helped get it approved. To answer a few comments made in the review. There are approximately 250 potential waymarks, and they are world wide. There are extant time balls in the UK, Australia, and the USA, so all corners of the Earth. Plus, previously (and possibly still there) time balls in Myanmar (Burma), St Helena—lots of places. Where ever ships put to sea there was a time ball. Thanks to the Max and 99 for spotting the sole spelling area, fixed, but that was of course a test. . The Time Bandit.

Bench —— you are clearly a perceptive individual. Follow the advice from the control agents above and all will be good.

I am going to support this. To be frank, I don't find these markers overly interesting, but I am sure that others do, plus, there are a number of similar categories. I also like the point about the appeal to the female members of the Waymarking community. If you guys write up a category you will have one vote from me.

Fi — you are correct about phones not indicting which means of signal location they are relying on. It would be good if one app did this, but so far no. The trick is, as you say, when you first move to a new location, or first use the gps app that day, to let the phone (or a gps) have a few minutes to acquire a good set of satellite signals before Waymarking. I usually back this up by taking a google map screen shot of the local area, with my location marked on the map. When in Waymarking mode I walk around with my phone and camera on a neck lanyard. This means I can keep the gps app running continually, and have all my gear at hand, and look like a complete geek. I also continually gaze up and around at buildings looking for date stones, and mutter to myself about category requirements. This has the added benefit that people back away from me and walk quickly away.

A good idea, and congrats on the number of waymarks. It would be interesting to see a stat analysis of active waymarkers and geographic location, over time.

I have submitted "Time Signals" for category peer review. This category deals with the first time keeping devices that provided an accurate and reliable time signal service for maritime navigators, and to the general public. These are principally, Time Balls, and also Time Cannons and Time Flaps. I wish to make a case for approving this category. "Time Signals" encompasses an important part of our history, a history that spanned the entire globe and stretched over a century in length. These timing devices made the seafaring world of the 19th century possible. More than that, even though they are now obsolete, these devices ushered in the modern era of time keeping. An era that has continued and improved for the past two centuries and is with us today in the form of GPS satellites. In this manner, we can consider the first time ball of 1829 the first step on the road to Waymarking. For these reasons, the time ball is an important and unique device that deserves to be remembered. Most now survive as tourist attractions, some are still in operation for that purpose. We have identified over 250 of these devices, on every continent and in many lands, and there are most likely a goodly number more still unidentified. The category is managed by a team of experienced officers, and, while we don't expect this to be a prolific category, over the coming years we do expect to accrue a growing number of interesting and worthwhile waymarks. Ianatlarge

In my gmail account, when I receive an email from Waymarking.com, I see a standard piece of text, every time. "Waymarking [WMK] Waymark Confirmation - This is a short note to let you know" "Waymarking [WMK] Waymark Confirmation - This is a short note to let you know" "Waymarking [WMK] Waymark Confirmation - This is a short note to let you know" "Waymarking [WMK] Waymark Confirmation - This is a short note to let you know" This does not say much beyond telling me that my waymark has been submitted, but I don't know which waymark. The name of the waymark is not visible without looking inside the email. How about rewriting this standardised email so that the name of the new waymark is the first text seen. e.g. "Big Buddha of Perth, Australia - confirmation" Or something similar. Just an idea.

@Bear, thanks. I will pass that on. Ummmmmmmm.

The what now? Who, movies? What?

Let me explain. I spoke to some guys in the "Time Ball and Cannon Association" (based in Edinburgh) about info for the forthcoming category "Time Signals". I explained to these chaps what Waymarking was, and they then asked if someone from our community could waymark this famous dog statue in Edinburgh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyfriars_Bobby Apparently, it is a statue of a dog that waited at the gravesite of its deceased master for years—or was a 19th century publicity stunt. Either way there is a statue of a dog on a plinth, with a website to his name. If anyone finds them-self in the "Athens of the North" please take a look. Ianatlarge

I am sorry to read of this. It is your decision, but I believe that you should reconsider. You have made contributions to your categories before, and should do so in the future. Best wishes, Ian

I have had many flaps about time, but I had never even heard of a time flap until now! Learn something every day. Thanks fi67. That list includes Singapore, which I had not seen listed elsewhere (though the article confuses longitude with latitude. I mention that at the risk of being pedantic). I will try and find more info on time flaps and include them in the category—it is getting big. Question. With the list in the website supplied by fi67 there will be 200+ known ball and cannons. Should this list be included in the category? I ask as with this list, the category description will be BIG. Dreamhummie—with the long nautical history of the Dutch, there must be a ball somewhere! I suspect several, but most likely they were dismantled in the early 20th. Your mission is to find these, and hopefully there is a plaque or historical record somewhere nearby. Concur: Better: time of firing/ball drop (required): small text Address: A text box is easier. Many different addresses around the world. When it comes time to submit to peer review I will write a "covering letter" to the good people here, explaining what a great idea this is: interesting, global, experienced officers, historical importance, and what ever else I can think of. Try and answer all objections. Time for beddy bies.

Sounds good. 1 suggestion. Time Ball or Time Cannon (required): drop down year (or time period) of creation (required): small text ------ I would make this optional, the info might not be available. year of demolition (optional): small text still in use (required): yes/no/I don't know physical adress (required): address weblink (optional): URL Also: size of cannon (optional) time of firing, if in use (required) Separate field for any anecdotes about the ball/cannon? Now that my mind is thinking about this I recall several funny stories I was told about the time ball and cannon that prior to 1965 were in use in the city of Perth. The story I was told. ~1900. A ship was docked at the Perth jetty. The captain told a young officer to go to the bow and report when the ball dropped. The officer was supposed to shout, but he went, looked, saw the ball drop, then turned around, walked back and up to the bridge, snapped a salute, and reported to the captain that the ball had dropped. The capt was not happy, haha. I was also told that the cannon firing prompted women to deliver their babies. Ummm.

whoops, had a blonde moment there. Here we go. Instructions for Visiting a Waymark in this Category You must, of course, physically visit the ball or cannon. Posting a photo of your visit is good, but try and take a photograph of the site distinct from an existing photo—a different angle, or something overlooked by previous visitors. Include a short description of your visit: was the ball or cannon in use, a popular tourist destination, anything new added, anything changed? Work towards keeping the waymark current.

At the bottom: Instructions for Posting a Time Ball/Time Cannon Waymark Called it posting, not visiting. I will change that.

I have done some more work on the category draft, and came up with a few name ideas, for the group and category and for the officers. Thoughts, suggestions? The Time Keepers — group name Time balls and cannons — category name Officer names: Time bandits Time masters Master of Time The Big Ball Blasters Keepers of Time The Big Gun Bangs --------- The purpose and goal of this category is to discover, document, and preserve the memory of "Time Balls" and "Time Cannons". These now obsolete devices were once used as public time markers. Time Balls A time ball is a distinctive sphere located at highly visible site in a city, usually a hill or other prominent location. At a fixed time every day the ball was dropped to indicate the correct time for all to see. At Greenwhich the following procedure was in use, and this was most likely followed within the Empire. Each day at five minutes before 13.00, the ball was half raised, at two minutes to the hour fully raised, and then on the hour, dropped. This multi-stage procedure gave notice of the approaching time marker. In the USA the ball was dropped at 12.00 (noon). The 13.00 time was chosen as the designated hour at Greenwhich in 1833. This allowed the astronomers to measure the transit of the sun at midday, and then drop the ball an hour later. The initial and always principal use for a Time Ball was maritime navigation. In centuries past, sailors, braving the heady distances of the Pacific and Atlantic, or a difficult journey through treacherous waters, where an error in longitude might mean shipwreck and death, looked to time balls to set their chronometers true before leaving port. The time ball concept was developed by Admiral Wauchope (1788–1862) of the Royal Navy. The first ball was installed at Portsmith in 1829. Time Balls quickly proved their usefulness and spread along the trades routes of the British Empire, and where ever else men put to sea in ships. Time balls continued in use until the first half of the 20th century, though their true utility was challenged by radio time signals which first entered service in the 1920s. In the modern world there are at least sixty of these devices extant. Some are still in operation as tourist attractions. A list of the known Balls is included below. Historical Time Balls In order to preserve the memory of time balls, we will accept non-extant balls, where there is adequate documentation. If you find a location where a Time Ball once existed, record it here! Time balls are now obsolete, but they were the first successful method by which an accurate time mark could be publicly disseminated. This service has continued with ever improving technologies and increasing accuracy over the past two centuries until today, where the heavens are filled with dozens of GPS satellites telling the time to an accuracy undreamed of in the past. The first step in this ongoing journey was taken by Admiral Wauchope. Honorary Member: In recognition of the importance of time balls in the history of timekeeping Admiral Robert Wauchope RN, the inventor of the Time Ball, is a Honorary life member of this category. Further information: Ian R. Bartky and Steven J. Dick, "The First Time Balls", Journal of the History of Astronomy, 12, 155-164, (1981). William R. O'Byrne, "A Naval Biographical Dictionary", (1849). Robert Wauchope, "Time Signals for Chronometers", 'Nautical Magazine', (1836), 460-464. Robert Wauchope, "A short narrative of God's merciful dealings towards me", (1862). William Laird Clowes, "The Royal Navy, a History", 5-6, (1900-1). Derek Howse, "Greenwich Time and the Longitude", (1997). Ian R. Bartky, "The Bygone Era of Time Balls", 'Sky and Telescope' (Jan. 1987), 32-35. David Aubin, eds. "The Heavens on Earth: Observatories and Astronomy in Nineteenth-Century Science and Culture", (2010). Ian R. Bartky and Steven J. Dick, "The First North American Time Ball", 'Journal for the History of Astronomy', 13, (1982), 50-54. Ian R. Bartky, "Naval Observatory Time Dissemination Before the Wireless," in 'Sky with Ocean Joined', Steven J. Dick and LeRoy Doggett, eds. (Washington, 1983), 1-28. Website of the Time Ball Association: http://www.1oclockgun.org.uk Time Cannons/Guns Time guns served a similar purpose to Time Balls. A Time Gun was fired at a known hour every day to signal the correct time. There is less information available as to the history of Cannons, as opposed to Balls, but they seem to have come into common use at about the same time. A critical disadvantage of cannons was the time delay due to the lethargic speed of sound, approximately three seconds per kilometre. This meant that ships at a distance from the cannon could not rely on the cannon fire as an accurate time marker. Cannons seem to have been more used as a time marker for their town or city. There are at least thirty cannons still in existence, most likely more. Historical Time Cannons As with Time Balls, we wish to preserve the memory of Cannons. If you find a site where a Time Cannon once existed, and there is adequate documentation, please include it here. Partial List of Time Balls Deal, Kent, UK The Old Windmill, Brisbane, Australia Fremantle, Australia Gdańsk, Poland Greenwich Observatory, England Clock Tower, Brighton, UK Nelson's Monument on Calton Hill, Edinburgh Point Gellibrand, Victoria, Australia Sydney Observatory, Australia Victoria & Alfred Waterfront, Cape Town United States Naval Observatory, USA Titanic Memorial, New York, USA Citadelle of Quebec, Quebec City, Canada Semaphore, South Australia, Australia Fort Canning, Singapore Partial List of Time Cannons Cape Town, South Africa Sevastopol, Russia Rome, Italy Nanaimo Bastion Halifax, Canada Sydney, Australia Aldershot, UK Edinburgh, UK Birkenhead, UK Ottawa, Canada Dundee, UK Warrnambool, Australia Hong Kong St. Petersburg, Russia Montreal, Canada Guernsey, UK Jersey, UK Fremantle, Australia Whitehaven, UK Kabul, Afghanistan Zagreb Noon Day Gun, Croatia Vladivostock, Russia Santiago, Chile Chronology of Time Balls 1819 Robert Wauchope first proposes the idea of a time ball. 1829 First experimental time ball installed at Portsmith. 1833 Time ball installed at Royal Observatory Greenwich. 1845 First USA time ball drop, U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington. mid 19th century — Time balls are in use in every major port. 1936 Cessation of the ball drop at the U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington. 2000 U.S. Naval Observatory drops its time ball to mark the millennium. Acknowledgements: Time Ball/Gun Association, Wikipedia, Greenwich Observatory, US Naval Observatory, Google books. Instructions for Posting a Time Ball/Time Cannon Waymark Name. Include the word "Time Ball" or "Time Cannon", and the city and country in which it resides. It may be that there is an individual designation for a particular ball or cannon. If so please use this in the name. Aim to make the name distinctive and informative. "Time Ball, Fort Canning Park—Singapore" "One O'Clock Gun, Edinburg Castle, UK" Include several photos of the Ball or Cannon and its supporting structure, plus any associated buildings. Also photos of what ever plaques, pamphlets, and signs are available. More information is good. Still in use? The size and height of the Ball. When was it established, when was it decommissioned. Current state of the Ball. What time was it dropped. Famous incidents, stories, anecdotes. Bonus if you see the Ball lowered, or the cannon fired. You don't need to go overboard here, but make an effort to put together the basics of the site.

"Captain Robert Wauchope is the real father of GPS" D_mm good point. I will include that in the category description. I will leave things a few more days and then edit the draft, and then, maybe, maybe, submit for approval.

From the Historic Places Waymarking iphone app. "Waymarking can be dangerous!" Therefore take care ! haha

Haha thanks.

Its been a few weeks since any of the officers of "Capitols - Managers" signed in. Also open enrolment is off. And, the important bit, I have a waymark waiting to be approved. Anyway of goosing these guys along?

Ok, here we go. How does this sound? -------------------------------------------------- Signs of Time The purpose and goal of this category is to discover, document, and preserve the memory of "Time Balls" and "Time Cannons". These now obsolete devices were once used as public time markers. Time Balls A Time Ball is a distinctive sphere located at highly visible site in a city, usually a hill or other prominent location. At a fixed time every day the Ball was dropped to indicate the correct time for all to see. At Greenwhich the following procedure was followed—this was most likely followed within the Empire. Each day at five minutes before 13.00, the ball was half raised, at two minutes to the hour fully raised, and then on the hour, dropped. This multi-state procedure gave warning of the approaching hour. In the USA the Ball was dropped at 12.00 (noon). The 13.00 time was chosen as the designated hour at Greenwhich in 1833. This time was chosen as it allowed the astronomers to measure the transit of the sun at midday, and then drop the ball. The initial and always principal use for a Time Ball was maritime navigation. In centuries past, sailors, braving the heady distances of the Pacific and Atlantic, or a difficult journey through treacherous waters, where an error in longitude might mean shipwreck and death, looked to Time Balls to set their chronometers before leaving port. The Time Ball concept was developed by Captain Wauchope (1788–1862) of the Royal Navy. The first Ball was installed at Portsmith in 1829. Time Balls quickly became popular and spread along the trades routes of the British Empire, and the civilised world (even to the USA). They continued in use until the first half of the 20th century, though their true utility was challenged by radio time signals which entered service following World War One. In the modern world of instant communication (often too much so) there are at least sixty of these devices extant. Some are still in operation as tourist attractions. A list of the known Balls is included below. Historical Time Balls In order to preserve the memory of Time Balls, we will accept non-extant Balls, where there is adequate documentation. If you find a location where a Time Ball once existed, record it here! Time Cannons/Guns Time guns served a similar purpose to Time Balls. A Time Gun was fired at a known hour every day to signal the correct time. There is less information available as to the history of Cannons, as opposed to Balls, but they seem to have come into common use at about the same time. A significant disadvantage of cannons was the time delay due to the lethargic speed of sound—three seconds per kilometre. This meant that ships at a distance from the cannon could not use the cannon fire as an accurate time marker. Cannons seem to have been more used as a time marker for their town or city. There are at least thirty cannons still in existence, most likely more. Historical Time Cannons As with Time Balls, we wish to preserve the memory of Cannons. If you find a site where a Time Cannon once existed, and there is adequate documentation, please include it here. Website of the Time Ball Association: http://www.1oclockgun.org.uk A few interesting links: http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=18085 Partial List of Time Balls Deal, Kent The Old Windmill, Brisbane, Australia Fremantle, Australia Gdańsk, Poland Greenwich Observatory, England Clock Tower, Brighton Nelson's Monument on Calton Hill, Edinburgh Point Gellibrand, Victoria, Australia Sydney Observatory, Australia Victoria & Alfred Waterfront, Cape Town United States Naval Observatory, USA Titanic Memorial, New York Citadelle of Quebec, Quebec City Semaphore, South Australia, Australia Fort Canning, Singapore Partial List of Time Guns Cape Town, South Africa Sevastopol, Russia Rome, Italy Nanaimo Bastion Halifax, Canada Sydney, Australia Aldershot, UK Edinburgh, UK Birkenhead, UK Ottawa, Canada Dundee, UK Warrnambool, Australia Hong Kong St. Petersburg, Russia Montreal, Canada Guernsey, UK Jersey, UK Fremantle, Australia Whitehaven, UK Kabul, Afghanistan Zagreb Noon Day Gun, Croatia Vladivostock, Russia Santiago, Chile Honorary member of this group: Captain Robert Wauchope, inventor of the Time Ball. Instructions for Posting a Time Ball/Time Cannon Waymark: Name. Include the word "Time Ball" or "Time Cannon", and the city and country in which it resides. it may be that there is an individual designation for a particular ball. If so please use this in the name. Work to make the name distinctive and informative. "Time Ball, Fort Canning Park—Singapore" "One O'Clock Gun, Edinburg Castle, UK" Include several photos of the Ball or Cannon and its supporting structure, plus any associated buildings. Also photos of what ever plaques, pamphlets, and signs are available. More information is good. Still in use? The size and height of the Ball. When was it established, when was it decommissioned. Current state of the Ball. What time was it dropped. Famous incidents, stories, anecdotes. You don't need to go overboard here, but make an effort to put together the basics of the Ball.

When I first started Waymarking I performed a few experiments to determine the accuracy of the gps on my iphone, and did a little research to see what others had to say on the same subject. Long story short, I found that an iphone app is accurate to 10m-20m, usually closer to 10m than the 20m. To make this determination I took successive spots of one location over several days, I also took repeated spots of a known location, and I tried several different apps. In light of this discussion thread I thought I should try the experiment again. Which I just did. Again, the iphone (iphone 4) is accurate to within 10m plus. I have noticed that the assisted gps greatly speeds the acquisition of an accurate position. When Waymarking in countries where I do not have a sim card in the phone it can take, at first, up to several minutes for the coordinates to settle down to one figure. What I have found is that local conditions: buildings, trees, the weather, affect the accuracy of the gps. (Though, in an electrical storm one really should not walk around waving a gps in the air). In conclusion, an accuracy to 10m plus (~ 0.0001 degree) is readily attainable, different iphone apps give the same result, and that a smartphone (at least an iphone) is as accurate as a dedicated gps device.

Canons are winning me over. The two were often physically associated for time keeping. I do recall that in the city of Perth, prior to 1965, so I was told, there was both a time ball and a time canon service run by the Perth Observatory, which prior to that date, was situated in a park overlooking the city. Also, the one club I came across dealing with Time Balls also includes canons. I don't think there would be anything else that would fall into the category. Canons and Balls were used to mark the hour, nothing else. I would also like to include historical Balls and Canons. If there is a plaque or sign indicating that such and such a site once held a canon or ball, then this site can be waymarked.

The Master Mariner suggested that time cannons be included in this group. Not a bad idea. Balls and Cannons served a similar purpose and were often associated. Also the number of potential waymarks would more or less double. Comments?