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Torgut

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Posts posted by Torgut

    Will There Be No More - Can There Be No More?

    in Recruiting and Category Proposals

    Posted · Edited by Torgut

    1) Indian Restaurants: by all means. I don't like so much business categories because I see (or saw, as we are past it now) the the threat of having thousands of categories, one for each brand out there. These general and relevant categories are different and love them.

    2) Elyob, for me it's weird, for you it's not, and we can agree on disagree. My problems with the bat thing are: 1) if there is a category for bat boxes then categories for animal shelters of each species can exist and it goes back to the excessive multitude of super specific categories; 2) At 58 and having traveling over 120 countries with eyes wide open I never saw a bat box. That makes me wonder if the category doesn't fail one of the criteria expected. 

    3) Country_wife... don't. That's a path for frustration. 

    Will There Be No More - Can There Be No More?

    in Recruiting and Category Proposals

    Posted

    12 hours ago, FamilieFrohne said:

    So you see the changes done to any category description after the poll as a violation of the acceptance of the community.

    Let's see. That would mean:

    • We should lock the possibilty to change anything in the category once the community has voted upon.
    • We would have to call for a vote when the leader, the officers or the mayority of the waymarkers think, they need to change something in the category.
    • The community has to approve the change with at least simple better a 2/3 majority.

    I'm sure that this could be arranged somehow if the community really wants that feature (at least the locking of the category should be makeable).

    BTW: That would also apply to simplifying or expanding a category.

     

    Well ... here you are telling me to be like a politician, as I just expressed my wish to improve the game with the above post. And with this comparison you are also implying that I'm not trustworthy and likable, as I could change something that was not agreed upon.

     

    Would it be better, if I keep my opinion and my ideas to myself then, be a good sheep and nod to all someone else is writing, because they are longer part of the game than myself and thus know better? Sorry to disappoint you, but if I have something to say, I'll try - hopefully in a calm, constructive and matter-of-fact tone.

     

    Then why should we have officers at all when all waymarks should be approved?

    Did I hear something about them being a quality gate? Quality - really?

     

    And the next thought right in follow-up: Why should we have categories, when all is approved?

    You could collapse it to one main category which contains all waymarks - which would be finally just a collection of coordinates (sometimes with text and pictures).

     

    It's not what I see, it is what it is. If you vote in a party that promises an economical liberal policy and one month after the elections they nationalize all there is to nationalize in a country, that's not right. Same here. Ideally, a batch of changes should go out for approval by poll. If someone makes it possible, by all means, sounds great. As you said. But realistically we know that WM is pretty much abandoned by Groundspeak, so we are talking of nothing but dreams. 

     

    "Then why should we have officers at all when all waymarks should be approved?"

    To make category rules work. If they are minimal, then minimal action. Not like some officers who create non-existent rules and requirements because they like them, not because they really exist in the category recquirements.

    • Upvote 2

    Will There Be No More - Can There Be No More?

    in Recruiting and Category Proposals

    Posted

    19 hours ago, elyob said:

    The Bat House category proves that there are still interesting categories hiding out there.

     

    The Bat House category also proves that our peers are demanding quality, so demanding that it can feel like conflict among us.  Bring it on.  We must have ever greater demands for greater quality.  Be it categories or waymarks: quality not quantity.

    No, it shows there are still silly categories hidden out there. If that Bat House is possible, anything is possible, given the author of the crazy idea massages conveniently the peers in this forums with smooth talk and a fantastic presentation of the category. 

    • Upvote 1

    Will There Be No More - Can There Be No More?

    in Recruiting and Category Proposals

    Posted

    If you understand me right, simplify is better than complicate but above all, respect what was approved in poll is better than trick users with a category set of rules and then change them. That's something politicians like to do. People usually are not fond of these things. Neither I am. 

    I understand your concerns about the difficulty of being an officer. In fact, it's not difficult, it's a matter of approve pretty much everything. If in your heart you don't feel that should be done, you can always resign your position as an officer of such categories. Just saying.

     

    • Upvote 2

    Will There Be No More - Can There Be No More?

    in Recruiting and Category Proposals

    Posted

    14 hours ago, ScroogieII said:

     

     

     

    Well, what does the rest of the community have to say to Erik with regard to the above outlined topics?

    The Scrooge

     

     

    That the idea of imposing more troubles to whoever is contributing is awful. The requirements are good as they are and above all are those which the peers voted (well, it's editable, I know,  but usually it applies what I said). Leave the categories alone. If something, I know quite a few which should be simplified. A practical example: gazebos. Unaware of the detail, I submitted a gazebo which has a square shape. Declined. Very fairly so as it says in the category that gazebos must be hexagonal or octagonal. What the heck!? I could give many more examples. So, talk about simplify, not complicate. 

    • Upvote 1

    Will There Be No More - Can There Be No More?

    in Recruiting and Category Proposals

    Posted · Edited by Torgut

    Interesting debate. In my view, there were some awful mistakes in the past which cannot be reverted and will forever be with us. I will give you an example. Think ethnography. It's is a science, a field of knowledge. It's unique, independent. There are thousands of Ethnography Museums all around the world. Once, I decided to try and create this category. It didn't pass, because, to most of the peers, such places should be included in History Museums. Well, probably many of those peers have no clue of what ethnography is. I do. I should, as I am a historian by academical formation. If I browse History Museums I notice that's a good "catch all" category. Everything fits in History. Well, after all, we only have future and past so it's easy to advocate that everything which can exist in a museum makes it a history museum :-) All of this to say: Ethnography Museums should exist as a category but that can't be because there are hundreds of them already - wrongly - included in another category. As I said, this is just an example of the impact of past wrong decisions. 

    Additionally I feel that trying to create a category is too much of a trouble. Peers are very demanding, sometimes for good reasons, sometimes not so much for the best reasons.  Personally, I don't think I will ever work on it again. I have a few ideas but no patience to go through the process and through the work involved. Eventually, for nothing. And I firmly believe that more than an exhaustion of possible categories, this is the key reason for the lack of them. 

     

    To finalize, it's obvious that less and less people are into WM. So, if there is not a considerable mass of thinking and working minds, chances of seeing something happen shrink. 

    • Upvote 1
    • Helpful 1
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    Which category for this?

    in General Waymarking Topics

    Posted

    After reading the sentence multiple times I think what the original writer intend to say is that those coats of arms found in public buildings, mass produced and placed as a flag of the State, are not accepted, not because they are national coat of arms but because there are too many of them and they are banal. 

    Which category for this?

    in General Waymarking Topics

    Posted

    On 3/25/2024 at 7:04 PM, Alfouine said:

     

    Of course we accept national coat of arms

     

    In that case the rules of this category really need some improvement to avoid doubts:


    "We are not interesting in all "coat of arms" - for example state/country coat of arms you can find on countless governmental and official building - so this kind of symbol is excluded from this category."

    Looking for new Officers

    in Recruiting and Category Proposals

    Posted

    On 1/5/2024 at 9:22 AM, fi67 said:

     

     

     

    Preserved Machines on Public Display: The difficult thing are all those exclusions. We did not want that, but the category came quite late and there were already a lot of older categories that covered a part of the area. Crossposting is fine, but when all waymarks in a category are by definition are also valid in a second one, we have a problem. So we had to exclude many "machines". No vehicles, no military equipment, no agricultural or household stuff. And the location must be accessible to the public free of charge, so many museum exhibits are excluded as well.

     

    Who is interested?

     

    Me.

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