CanUK_TeamFitz

Whhhhaaa... Hey! When did you get approval for KittenKaching? Is KittenKaching the new HamsterCaching? MrsB It's important to note that placing unmodified Kittens in caches can ruin the cache container, not to mention a danger to HamsterCaching, therefore you should only really used pre-approved Bonsai Kittens.

Those events could be set up anywhere in the world. The OP is complaining about the icon that was only available by being at the Groundspeak Headquarters party on July 4th. It has a slightly different icon than the regular "HQ" icon. Look at my profile page for a complete set of icons. I like having at least one of each, so I bought a plane ticket and went to Seattle this summer. If a unique icon is made available someday in the UK or Germany, I think that would be fair! I would either fly across the pond to score it, or I'd get over it and be happy for those able to do it. Aah, I see. Well I got your icon too now!

Here in the UK, I attended 3 L&F events, so you can have one of mine if you like.

Ok guys, thanks for the helpful info! I now have my filght and hotel booked for Friday and will be in Dhahran/Bahrain area for 6 weeks. Not sure about going into the desert by myself but I'm up for adventure. Around the Western parts and touristy areas I'd be comfortable. On occassion in the UK, geocachers obviously attract police attention when searching, who seem to treat it fairly harmless. Would the Saudi police take a similar attitude? Anyone have any trouble with Saudi police and geocaching?

I literally baked this cache - http://coord.info/GC25AKP Currently taken out for maintenance on the magnets.

I LOL'd.

I've had this happen recently, newbie with 8 finds posted a NM without even a DNF. I didn't believe it but, I like to take a benefit-of-the-doubt approach so I message'd them and asked for details. Got a reply back which still didn't fill me with confidence but I disabled the cache anyway and checked on it the next week. Newbie was right, it was gone. Replaced and thankful. Newbies are sometimes dead on. Keeps me humble to know that just cos I got to the restaurant before someone else doesn't automatically make me a connoisseur of fine cuisine.

Thanks CH! I shall do this and check out the links nearer to the time, when I have dates for when I'm leaving.

Some of my logs on poorer caches are actually longer than those I leave on average caches. I like to take inspiration from those that use humour - especially on poorer hides - to make a point. I'm not always successful but I think it helps the hider to think better for their next hide. I try to write long logs - I try to say something individual for every cache in a series. I recognise not everyone is a novelist however, and I've defended short logs in the past only to be affronted by people who can barely manage to log 2 sentences complaining about people who use anacronyms - really quite ironic for someone like me who aims for a paragraph each time (not always successfully). However, I've cached with great people who write little in their online logs. I also wrote 1/2 word logs when I started out because I didn't really know that you could write a lot more. We should be aware of the fact we don't know the individuals circumstances and/or level of experience and education before denigrating their short logs. A tip for series caches - instead of writing a longer log on just one at the beginning or end, why not spread it out into one or two sentences each over the entire series. Ocassionaly when I've done a series of caches I've simply continued rambling on from the last log and forgotten to say anything about the cache itself... I haven't had any complaints yet - I like to think it makes the CO go and look at the other logs I wrote, I know I would as a CO.

I'm being sent to Saudi Arabia - Dhahran to be precise - for work till the end of September starting from either next week or the week after (awaiting visa). Can anyone here help share caching experience in Saudi - particularly for a Western foreigner? I am married but will be classed as a bachelor, my visa will be multi-visit for work purposes. I understand there are going to be limits on where I can go and there will also be security issues. However, if I can, I intend to do some caching.... Any advice on the following: - Security - Natural dangers - any other things to look out for Many thanks!

My alternative to dealing with GROIN: Set a series 100-200 35mm film can micros. When other cachers do the series encourage them to bring a few spares and replace as necessary -thus ensuring GROIN is overwhelmingly occupied whilst better caches can be placed. In the event GROIN decided to ignore the series then their environmental hypocrisy will be exposed. Here's my other alternative: Don't involve the police, but do build up a profile. Don't delete accounts, just wait patiently. If a person or persons can be identified, you may have more success taking them to small claims court than through the CPS (who may ultimately decide to drop it at whim).

I apologise that my comment caused you to take issue. That was my impression and accept that my impression was wrong. Please don't stay clear of the forums. I have enjoyed your posts. I can also categorically say that the forum is not becoming a place where humour is outlawed. Geohatter Thanks. I have a tendency to get caught up in controversial topics as I like to explore all sides of the debate and often find that most people prefer to take a side then debate. In order to reduce the number of times I get caught up in these debates, I sometimes use humour. It doesn't always work, but it helps keep me emotionally uninvolved.

I agree sarcasm is a way of conveying an opinion and noone at Groundspeak feels differently. While I respect that you don't agree with the advice given, I feel that the way in which you put that opinion across disrespected the work the reviewers have done. I don't believe anyone has equated assault with stealing tupperware. From what I've read, all that has been said is that some people believe all crimes should be reported no matter how insignificant they appear to be. We both obviously have differing opinions on the validity of the advice. I'm happy for it to be discussed with sarcasm but, in my opinion, your post was a little over the top. But hey, it's your opinion to be expressed how you like within the guidelines. I take issue with your inference that I've disrespected reviewers, my post was in jest. If any reviewers feel I've disrespected them in any way let them speak, I'll apologise (i'll also stay clear of the GS UK forums as it looks like it's becoming a place where humour is outlawed). I do have this to add:- I actually thought the OP was a little over-reactive and felt that you handled it well, however your reaction to my post has slightly shaded my original opinion of your good self. Regarding police response, I've deliberately avoided discussing that and my own personal experiences of how seriously police treat real crime. That is all.

Sorry I forgot to add a smiley, here it is -- Of course, I think mine and currykev's post were important to the discussion here - sarcasm and humour can be a way of conveying an opinion - they are valid tools of communication - if not always welcome - but if Groundspeak feels that they are not then who am I to argue? I think if you're going to ask people to give straight answers and not have a little banter then what is the point of having these forums? I see plenty of this type of light hearted commentary going on in other threads, I do think coming across as a little sensitive if you're going to ask that it not take place. I already gave an alternative in another thread discussing GROIN. Equating assault with stealing tupperware left in the woods - or arguing the latter is more serious than the former is a joke in itself. ETA #1: I have no contempt for reviewers, and of the reviewers I have communicated with directly regarding my own caches I am confident to state that if they were asked they would say they found my communication with them entirely reasonable and respectful. ETA #2: BTW, I do not find your sig line very helpful - I think you should remove it as it distracts me from the discussion

I'm sorry but I fall on the side of these measures are not enough!!!! I've gone back to my caches to find decent swag that I've left has either been:- 1) Traded for some second hand broken piece of plastic crap 2) Not traded for at all - just taken We must not allow this green-collar crime to go unreported! We should report every incident of swag items stolen in this manor to the police - seriously, it will even help their statistics in the long run (even though our area will be statistically designated as a high-crime area it's worth it)! Also - If we report cachers who log a find without actually signing the physical log we can help bump up police fraud statistics too! Cachers who forget to log trackables, well ok maybe not criminal but surely the councils can impose fines? Revenues can be devided between the local authorities and Groundspeak. Of course the real question is should we involve SOCA and the foreign office when trackables go missing abroad? I imagine it would be down to whatever agreements the UK government has in place with the country in question.

It's already happened (several times), although requested by the land manager rather than geocaching.com. So I heard that someone in the past once attempted to sue a CO, only to abandon the case... is this true? No disrespect to the Yanks, but I thought that kind of thing would have happened over there first. ETA: When I got permission for our second cache on Croxley Moor, I was given the ok as long as the tree was not likely to fall on someone....! But no Risk Assessment requested - phew.

This reminds me of an amusing "Reply to All" email thread I saw in an office once....

Has anyone thought of creating a 100-200 series of 35mm micros dedicated to GROPE? Ask cachers to replace any that are missing as they do the series, keep them busy I say - they wouldn't have time for any other caches.

If someone didn't sign the log on one of my easy finds then it's a 'meh'. If someone didn't sign the log on one of my puzzles or harder finds - I'd request they go back and sign it (or verify some other way they were there - eg. describe the location/container).

Perhaps because you can solo climb and basejump without publishing to the world where and when you're planning on doing it? If you want to hide a geocache and have people go and find it you have to publish its location along with some form of identification of who placed it. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be inclined to make a public proclamation that I'd done something illegal, where the evidence could be found, and put enough information about myself to enable Mr Plod to trace me and and pay me a visit. Heh, good point.

Not too strong a word, just entirely the wrong word. Geocaching is in no way connected with undermining the authority of the state. It never has been and never will be. Yep thanks, see above! Some could be considered but in general I agree with your sentiment. Please note everyone I didn't include a full list of all underground activities in the UK, just ones that sprung to mind, there is a lot going on that we're not discussing here. It's not but once again I will state ^^ above I mentioned I used the wrong word. Thanks for the informative backstory - it's making sense now, perhaps not one big decision to cross over to the other side, but lots of small decisions based on bad PR. Yes another good example - I thought about this but didn't include it as I thought it's gone too mainstream now. I suppose this is one case where mainstreaming has benefited everyone on the slopes, but I wonder - like other underground movements if this came about because some nuisances or outlaws pushed the issue - they did it anyway. Imagine if the pioneers of snowboarding.... and, well..... just about anything, sat around waiting for permission. I wonder if we'd ever see half the interesting tech and fun activities we see these days? illegal skating => skate parks illegal snowboarding => snowboarding acceptance illegal grafitti => art exhibitions and fashion illegal online piracy => iPods and iTunes illegal pirate radio => radio channel choice etc... Not that I'm trying to draw a parellels between all illegal activities and becoming mainstream, but of the 'harmless' ones -the creative ones - it seems to be pushing the boundaries and breaking the law leads to change in the law and culture.

Ok I think I already retracted on the "subversive" part - it's the wrong word. sTeamTraen: With regards to graffitti, it is more like geocaching than you care to realise. Banksy was just an 'obvious' example off the top of my mind that most people are familiar with - there are many more examples but as I don't think you would care anyhow. You've made your level of cultural understanding clear so there's no point debating further. I thank Pharisee and The Hearse for providing some alternate origins. Yes I think the publicity has a part to play, but still, there seems to be a point where an organised underground activity has to decide if they're going to continue to do it as they always have (disregard authority) or to step in line (agree to pay for licenses, not conduct activity in certain places etc). It appears to me that geocaching 'stepped in line', I am really just attempting to find out the influences and reasons behind that - being publicly known about does not cause base jumpers or graffitti artists to self police and ensure it's only done in legitimate places - they seem to just carry on as is. Geocaching is far less subversive/illegal than graffitti or basejumping - yet it makes more of an effort to become legitimate, which doesn't seem logical to me - but maybe someone can explain that?

I don't think the stock answer is the right answer - I think that's a cover for institutionalisation. If I wanted to cache without official approval I'd avoid any and all such organisations - I'd just go put one out and give coordinates to friends - or maybe post on my blog - and therefore I would be completely outside of any guidelines or permissions. It's then down to the state to decide if I should be ignored as I'm playing a game, if I should be fined for dropping litter, arrested under the terrorism act or being a public nuisance. Yes I think subversive was too strong a word to use for geocaching - though some of the activities above could be considered such. Freeganism and Parkour I'd say google is your friend, but the former is raiding rubbish for free food, Parkour is traversing urban street furniture and landscape using a variety of acrobatics and physical movements. L8HNB - Thanks for the example, this is pretty much in line with what I'm thinking - similar to how the pirate radio stations were co-opted. sTeamTraen - I understand that most caches are published with 'adequate' permission - which in most cases is assumed by the reviewer. You could say that freegans also assume permission to raid garbage for food, freecyclers assume permission to give away things they own (which may have regulations or licenses), Bookcrossers assume permission to leave books in public places, guerella gardners assume permission to plant on public property. PS. What you call criminal damage, others call expensive works of art vis-à-vis Banksy. I recently read The Pirate's Dilemma which has influenced my thinking in this area. It discusses a lot of underground culture and it's influences on society. What's interesting is the same thing happened to Hollywood - which was founded on piracy, yet now it has created large media conglomerates who reach across the globe in an effort to stomp it out. Clearly some underground cultures retain something of the culture that created them, whereas others sometimes take on the face of their enemy. I wonder how geocaching will evolve in this respect?

I was going to post this at the end of another thread but I thought it was too long and so should be a topic of it's own... Serious question, I've heard it told by older members that at one time geocaching was an 'underground' game and there were less/no rules about SSSIs and such... I wonder at what point it began to emerge as this kind of 'respectable' hobby and got so institutionalised? I say this because a number of underground and subversive hobbies/activities have never had this problem despite their widespread public knowledge, acceptance (or tolerance) and sometimes nuisance: Skateboarding Graffiti Parkour Freecycling Bookcrossing Guerilla Gardening Freeganism Squatting Base Jumping + many more I can't think of right now... OK maybe not all are mainstream, and not all are legal, but most are at least tolerated, if not admired and respected. For participants who take place in the illegal activities, they may get arrested but this seems to be taken as an accepted risk for the activity. Now for geocaching I think the worst punishment could be a fine from a council for littering, or a private prosecution for trespassing (if there was damage caused). But why isn't this taken as an accepted risk for individuals, rather than an overall effort to shape the game into a mould that the public and their government finds acceptable? Geocaching obviously started out like these other activities but somewhere along the way it changed - does anyone know, or have a theory as to why? Also I respectfully ask that people refrain from the cut n' paste answer that "it's more public now" - It just doesn't wash when compared against the other games that have gone public and yet still survived in their subversive form. I also find it interesting that there's nothing stopping anyone from hiding something in a park and giving their friends clues and coordinates to go find it. After I started geocaching I was told a friend of a friend had been doing this for years - but just by himself, not through a website or organisation... and not with the blessing of the local authorities or government. I'd like to see some discussion about this if possible... sorry if I accidentally stumbled over a dead horse.

I would have trouble reconciling those 2 statements. If that thread IS NOT indicative of this forum in general then it should be a surprise - however mild. If that thread IS indicative of this forum in general then - well - you would not be surprised in the least. Either it is typical and you are not surprised, or it is atypical and you are surprised. Which is it? Unless you are nonchalant and this is what you wanted to convey....