Cpl. Klinger

If, and I mean if the area that the cache was hidden in was a good one, I wouldn't mind a hide like this. If a cacher had a bunch of hides like this, and a few of them were great, I'd keep hunting them. Otherwise, I'd not load them up.

If you were going to drop a piece of paper, and hadn't met up with the CO, then you wouldn't have "found it." Convinced you have the right spot and leaving a piece of paper ≠ found. If I were the CO and saw that kind of log, it'd be deleted.

If you were going to drop a piece of paper, and hadn't met up with the CO, then you wouldn't have "found it." Convinced you have the right spot and leaving a piece of paper ≠ found. If I were the CO and saw that kind of log, it'd be deleted.

Had to figure this one out... Assuming that each geocoin left is a standard size (.10 thick x 2" wide x 2" wide, not correcting for it being a circle for simplicity), 5 million geocoins left in one year would equal out to 166,666.67 cubic feet of material left. That is a square 31.56 miles high, wide, and deep. Yeah, bad idea...

I looked on the NPS site for the Grand Canyon, and saw no mention of being able to leave anything (even stores of food or water) in the Canyon, but saw plenty of mentions to carry everything you took in out with you.

If you already know you can't leave a cache there, why would you think it would be acceptable to leave a geocoin? Only leave geocoins or TB's in caches that are already approved and listed. Aside from the fact that hiding something like this would further raise the ire of the NPS, you are virtually guaranteeing that it will come up missing because: a critter gets it and moves it, weather moves it through floods, winds, or even fire, or some muggle stumbles across it and takes it.

Not without violating the terms of use... So I must further ask the question. Why do you not want to be a member? I can't understand the folks that want to whine and cry about $30 for a premium membership and the extras that it has. It's 8.2 cents per day spread out over a year. Besides, it helps keep the lights on and the servers running, so why not?

Since everyone else is too busy attacking each other, I'll add my 2 cents in again, on topic. I've seen bottle caps in caches, and if they're especially nice, I might take one. But overall, I am caching, therefore, I am looking more for the cache than the swag. Down the road, I plan on filling my go bag for caching with some swag to trade, but right now I've not got the spare cache to. So I do my best to please the CO by finding their cache and writing a nice log.

Why NOT log the cache more than once..? Do we need to drag out the "we all play differently" horse? Really?

Am I the only one who only looks for the log and TB's in caches? Am I the only one who gets to the cache, finds it, and only thinks of the hike to get there, the view when I find it, or the sense of accomplishment that I did find the creative hide? Am I the only one who could give two hoots less what is in the cache to trade? I go for the hunt and the thrill of the find. And by find I mean container/location only. I'd rather find an empty save for log, well hidden decon container at the end of a nice hike with a great view than a mediocre ammo box hide filled with swag (good or otherwise) any day.

No, WAAS is everywhere... I find, when using my wife's eTrex Vista, that sometimes if I've moved it a fair distance between turning it on, or if it's been a really long time between turning it on and it's a far distance from the last place it was, I get screwy accuracy. To fix it, I turn it on and off about 3-4 times and recalibrate the compass, and things settle down. Of course, YMMV.

Unless I"m doing it wrong. You can only be notified of one kind of cache. Most people probably don't have there's set for puzzles. But you can have multiple notifications set up.

You can know someone who is placing caches and can give you an inside line... My wife just hid one over the weekend, and is still open for FTF. I know how to solve the puzzle, and to be totally serious, I know exactly where it's hidden, even though I wasn't with her. I won't go find it though. Also goes to show that FTF hounds must not like puzzle caches, it's going on 5 days without so much as a note.

I'm hoping to place the first two of the series this week, so I'll definitely post them in this thread.

I tried to work it out on GE tonight while going over the area that I am going to place the cache, and I think that they'll have a hard time at it, well, this one at least. I couldn't figure out if GE could draw a path in an arc, or even a circle, so that they can solve for the final. We'll see.

When we have a well thought out route and plan, Col. Flagg and I have a blast caching together. It's great kiddless together time. And once the little one gets older and we get her hooked, it'll be great family time.

I have an idea for a puzzle type cache I want to place, but want a few opinions on it. Basically, I have thought of a series of of caches the have the finder follow a preset path of waypoints and bearings to get to the area of ground zero, and the hint on the page is specific enough that the finder has to be at GZ to understand it. The paths are all representative of differing types of aircraft navigation set-ups, like SID's, STAR's, etc. The first one I want to do would be based on a DME Arc approach, where they would approach a way point, walk in an arc around it at a set distance to another waypoint, then shoot a bearing from there to GZ. And of course, these are going to be some serious hides, i.e not nano's in the woods. I plan on making all the ones I place ammo cans of decon containers. I realize that there is a fudge factor in GPS readings, so I am going to walk the path I set up to GZ multiple times with multiple GPSr's, so that I can average out the waypoints enough that the average person will get it right. I know that people might try to work it out on Google Earth, and more power to 'em. I think the folks that will have the most fun are the ones that do it right. So, what does everyone think?

No you missed my point. There is a big difference between a sign that denies liability and a law that relieves liability. You can put up all the signs you want, or have people sign all the releases you want. They may help, they may not, but they do not carry the same weight as a law that relieves your liability. That doesn't mean you won't be sued just because of the law, but it does reduce the odds. But either way, what we have to deal with is a land owner who is distrustful of the law which is said to protect them. Again, you missed the overall point of my post. The land owner doesn't want to take the chance on depending upon a law relieving them of liability in a overly litigious society. The land owner wishes no part of what we do on their land, law or no law. So let's just take our toys and go home. If I was the CO in this case, I'd apologize to the land owner (in person, preferably), have some conversation with them about caching, then leave it alone. If I leave the land owner with a good impression of cachers, even when we've been in the wrong, that good can go a long way in the world. Who knows who that land owner might know that they can influence...

There is a big difference between a sign that denies liability, and a law that relieves liability. Those dump trucks will still have to pay if the rock that hits the windshield comes from the load and not from the road. The sign will not make a difference. However, just try to prove the rock came from the road and not the load. (It has been done, but very rare.) The trucking company would have to prove you were too close, also hard to prove. If someone could prove your store was negligent with the carts, your sign won't help. If it was a law it would make a difference. But you missed my point. I talked about a case where it was clear we had no liability. The customer pushed a cart into the corral next to his car, and backed into it because he didn't put it away properly. The coral was empty, seen on video. It was about to go to court, and we settled. People sue ski resorts all the time with signed releases of liability. Under the law, the resort should be absolved of liability because the user signed away their rights and assumed all liabilities, but still suits get filed. And it usually settles out of court. Where was the law then? I'm all for educating land holders that the law is supposed to protect them from liability, however, I can totally understand that some don't. This is a case where the land holder has made it clear that law or no law, they wish no part of our activities on their land. In my ever to be so humble opinion, then we need to honor that request, and leave it be. You never know, someone may talk to them in the future about caching, and they might be able to say positive things about our response and affect that person. And they might be a land holder/park ranger/etc. Good that goes around, comes around.

Thank you. That is essentially the point that I was trying to make when I was asking "why" the landowner cares, when so many people have already found the cache without apparently causing any damage or invasion of privacy. I'm guessing that they are afraid of liability issues and are not aware of the laws that protect them from just that. When I go skiing, I sign away a liability release form, releasing the owners of the resort of any liability should I do something stupid and kill myself. At the grocery store I manage, we have BIG signs all over the lot stating that we have no liability in case of cart damage. Dump trucks all over state have signs stating that they are not responsible for windshield damage caused by following too closely. In all cases, I can point to stories where even stated releases of liability don't matter to folks. I had a guy last year clearly back into a shopping cart at my store, shown on video tape, no less, but tried suing us for damages. That ended up in a "here's a check, now go away" settlement. It was his fault, with our release of liability all over the lot. And yet he still "won". I know that the law says it protects me. In this litigious society, I'd rather make sure I protect myself from the law. And the lawyers.

If there was ever a cache like that, it would go to the top of my list in a heartbeat! Oh, and on topic, yeah, make it a multi and call it a day.

My apologies...I just REALLY like using that picture whenever I can. :-/ I probably shouldn't have, in retrospect. But it still makes me laugh. :-/ Actually, I think it was a textbook response. And I am STILL laughing about it.

You know, instead of contributing something helpful to the discussion, you just have to be snarky..... Snarky? Well, I can be. OP is local. He lives about six miles west of me. I don't do cemetery caches. That's been established. You may choose to do them for whatever your reasons are. I choose not to do them for whatever my reasons are. I thanked him for the warning. Cache is on my ignore list. A very good friend of mine hid a cache with the first waypoint in a cemetery. He e-mailed me to ask if that would bother me? I responded that Yes. I would not be doing that cache, and thanks for your concern. He understood. So, it would seem to me that you are the one being snarky. It seems that you are incapable of understanding other cachers sensibilities. Oh, well. You missed the whole point of my comment... Your whole post contributed nothing to the discussion. Nothing. Not one iota. It falls under the whole "If you can't say anything nice, why say anything?" column to me. Granted, I have no real problem with the way anyone else plays the game. I don't care if all you want to do is skirt lifters (thought I may secretly question your sanity...), go for it. Good for you. But if you're gonna post something, make it meaningful. Your post was like dropping a TNLNSL TFTC on a 5/5 with a beautiful view. /end soapbox

You know, instead of contributing something helpful to the discussion, you just have to be snarky..... Anyway, back on topic. Like everyone else has said, a check of local laws and rules set down by cemetery owners is the first priority. There is a memorial cache around us that sits on the boundary of the cemetery right behind (about 3 feet) a cacher that passed away, so it has been done. Personally, I'd have one placed on my plot in a heartbeat. I want people to remember me for the fun stuff. I'm even going to put it in my will that everyone has to throw a party when I die, and make it like a roast. No use crying... *on second thought, the image was a bit much...*

Now that I am starting to shy away from urban hunting, I am much more thankful for cache owners... Not crazily long logs, but if I find that the cache is special in some way, I'll let the CO know I liked the find. And I am very easy to please! Neat, out of the way places, along windy country roads, with great views are what I look for, and there are plenty of those kinds of hides around.