Pantalaimon

test Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

Whoops

Triple post. Dern "website not responding message!"

quote:Originally posted by NeuroNomad & Sublonde:And thus, the saga continues. Come on! My comment may have been a wee bit snide, but it's true, isn't it? Plus, if you really don't need GPSrs for Geocaching... why wasn't it invented long ago? Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

quote:Originally posted by bodenhek:I really cant believe people use GPS. Maybe something I am missing but cant you just walk right on top of the cache? And how many nongps people are there like me? The main reason you need a GPS is to submit a cache. If you try to submit a cache that somehow does not (on its face) REQUIRE a GPS to find, it won't be approved. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

quote:Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):If you wish to debate each other, please do it outside of the forums. Okay. Sorry. Next time I'll let the baseless attacks about how I'm creating bogus accounts go unanswered. quote:BTW, the "nos" seem to have it so far. ) Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Would I have known that if I didn't post the poll? Sorry, again. I thought geocaching.com meant what it said about looking for opinions in the forums. Lock this topic too, please. I'm really beyond caring at this point. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

Well, I think I explained that. Futher, I wouldn't have even continued with this thread until I my posts were negatively commented upon here. And, as I quoted on the other thread: "If your cache has been archived make sure to read the log to see why. If you want to dispute your archived cache, feel free to post a message in the forums to see what others think. If the majority believes it should be posted, your cache may be unarchived." Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

Okay, I'll let it drop too... right after I quote from the Geocaching.com cache reporting discussion page: Ahem. "If your cache has been archived make sure to read the log to see why. If you want to dispute your archived cache, feel free to post a message in the forums to see what others think. If the majority believes it should be posted, your cache may be unarchived." Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

Okay, well, I feel like we're arguing in two different posts now, which seems ridiculous. I accept your apology for the premium member comment and for the fake post comments. As far as taking this discussion to the forums, like I said on the other thread, it is my understanding that cache creators are encouraged to take the discussion to the forums is the approver fails to approve the cache. I've had discussions with the approver, and we've come to no agreement on the cache. Thus, I took the discussion here, as I am entitled to do. Now, as far as others agreeing with me on the cache, it doesn't look like its going to happen, and I can accept that. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

quote:Originally posted by NeuroNomad & Sublonde:Makes me look no more the jack$$$ than a certain person (you) that keeps harping on the fact that the admin will not approve his cache as is. If that makes me a jack@ss I fully and totally accept the title. Are you even aware that if the approver fails to approve a cache after discussions with the creator, then the creator is encouraged by Geocaching.com to take it to the forums? Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

quote:Originally posted by NeuroNomad & Sublonde:... blah blah blah ... Not only that but it looks like he is creating fake accounts to have someone that agrees with him. Ha Ha, this guy is too funny. No, what's funny is that you're totally wrong. Ha ha. Think before you post, okay. Maybe have some facts, or know what you're talking about. It will make you look less like a jack@ss, I promise. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

NeuroNomad and/or Sublonde, You have no idea what you're talking about. Luckily, you apologized if you were wrong, because, well, you are. First, I have no idea who LE is, and second s/he didn't even agree with me! Climb back in your hole, K? Why don't you slip fully into your self-imposed role of forum police and ask the admins to check the ISP of LE. Maybe that will convince you that your "100% sure" is really 0% correct. The first thread I started on this matter was to discuss HOW I could effectively argue to get my cache approved. This thread was to take a poll on the topic, because one of the reasons the cache approver said he was denying the cache is because of the replies on the other thread. The two threads were clearly created for two different purposes. Why do you appear to have such a problem with that? Have I harmed your delicate sensibilities is some way? I didn't realize it was a forum crime to try and get approval for a cache that I thought would be interesting and enjoyable to fellow cachers? Oh wait... its not, you're just overreacting. Not being a premium member gives me no right to post about I cache I want to create? Please. That doesn't even warrant a reply. Don't hurt yourself getting off your high horse. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

Well, my webcam cache, previously discussed here has been denied. Here's the deal, as descriptive as I can be: It is a webcam cache. The webcam is located along the shore of a lake in Maine. I posted coordinates somewhere NEAR the correct coordinates (within about 1/10 of a mile), but I wanted the cacher to have to use some smarts in order to find the cache. Now, the cache coordinate don't SAY they're near the web cam, its more vague than that, it just says the cam is somewhere in Maine, but there are pleanty of ways to figure this out. For example, the sample picture says the website of the cam in the upper left hand corner. The observant cacher will find the page from there. Others might have to Google until they find the correct camera, and using the coordinates given, that shouldn't be too hand. Once you find the correct camera, you will see the picture shown on the cache page and on the camera page match. Then, on the webcam website there is a description of where to go to find the cache. Or, if you're more thorough, you may email the keeper of the cam, he'll tell you the coorect coordinates if you are smart enough to get ahold of him. So, my question is this. Plain and simple. Whether or not YOU like webcam caches, or whether or not you DO webcam caches, or whether or not you will look for this particular cache, should my cache be approved? (Please remember, this is not a discussion of webcam caches in general, its just whether, in the realm of webcam caches, mine should be approved.) Thanks Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

quote:I cannot scan the forums looking for threads like this; you need to respond to me (or the admin who notifies you of an issue) to continue the discussion. Also, the admins typically do not jump into cache approval discussions or take action out of context; we don't always know the details of foregoing discussions, original cache coordinates, etc. Again, I was not looking to bring the discussion about this particular cache to the forums, this thread started simply looking for successful ways on getting my cache approved. quote:I'd like to thank erik for the heads-up. And I look forward to hearing _directly_ from you. I have sent you another email. Thus far it hasn't been responded to. But I'm patient, and that wasn't the point of this thread. quote:I now see that the coordinates on the cache page have been changed to place the web cam in Sebago Lake instead of on the golf course. I'm not sure the geocachers seeking your cache would find that particularly helpful. Actually, the geocachers who hunted that webcam, if any ever do, probably would find that location helpful. It's very close to the site of the cam, and if you actually went to those coordinates, you'd probably be way off in the distance on the cam picture. The trick would be to find the shoreline with the cam, and capture a closer up shot. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

quote:I just think that to place a cache that excludes some from even attempting it is a poor choice. Yeah, we're definitely going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Again, if there was a rule that said you cannot place a cache that excludes "some" from even attempting it, me thinks about 95% of caches would have to be archived. I have a cache that requires the finder to climb several trees. Should it be archived because those who can't/won't/don't climb trees can't possibly find it? I reject your logic. There have been suggestions above that would enable you to find this cache. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

Okay, first, just so we're all clear here, I wasn't trying to change this thread into a let's-review-the-cache-and-see-if-the-admin-who-put-ity-on-hold-got-it-right. I want everyone here to recognize this, and I want the admin who orginially "held" my cache to know this. This thread was originally created to ask people's opinions on how to formulate an argument in support of my cache. So, in closing to my opening, I have no problem with the cache being held subject to further conversations, again, I just wanted some ideas on how to formulate my arguments. But, since I've been asked, I've forwarded my reply to ~erik~. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

quote:Originally posted by Zartimus:I don't see too much wrong with your suggestion, in fact I like the idea of 'looking for' the web-cam in question. If you know what the camera is looking at, they you should be able to note the surroundings being captured and place yourself there. It's not as easy as it sounds/looks so that may be fun. It certainly sounds like a web-cache to me. There is software one can use to capture a series of timed screen shots while you are AFK if one chooses not to use a cellphone. I choose the software route myself. Cheers! Zartimus, This is one of the most helpful and civil posts I think I've seen in the forums. I thank you for replying. Frolickin, I hope that Zartimus' reply alters your opinion a bit on the type of cache I am attempting to create. However, even if it doesn't, does that fact that you don't want to use a cell phone to ask someone to capture the screen shot of you at the webcam mean the cache shouldn't be approved? You can please some of the people all of the time... etc. We're not all going to like every cache. If concensus was required to approve a cache we wouldn't have much to do. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

quote:Oh, come now. If I can't have a little fun, what's the point? Brian Team A.I. Don't get me wrong, I knew you were teasing. I was just funnin' you back. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

quote:Originally posted by Dinoprophet:Does the person have to find the camera itself or just a good spot to take the picture? I like the idea of having to locate the camera. But either way, doesn't the finder have someone watching them on the webcam who can tell them where they should be standing and who can tell immediately whether the picture is good? I'm not sure I fully understand your question, but I'll try to answer. There is a webcam on a shore line in a state. It shows some beach, and a bunch of water behind it. My cache provides coordinates NEAR the spot where the webcam is pointed at, your job is to find the spot you need to stand to be in the webcam picture. So, again, the webcam is static, you just need to figure out where to go. As an aside, there are easy ways this can be done. I think the average geocacher wouldn't have too much trouble. And yes, if you go find this cache, you will need someone on line to (A) tell you if you're in the right place, and ( capture the webcam shot. Reception, however, on cell phones in the area may be tricky. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

quote:Originally posted by Brian - Team A.I.:[sarcasm] I was just going to suggest only hitting 'Post Now' once instead of 4 times. [/sarcasm] Brian Team A.I. I didn't hit "Post Now" 4 times, I tried to edit my message, and it kept posting a new one instead. I think I hit some sort of glitch that wouldn't let me edit. [sarcasm] But thanks for your helpful advice. [/sarcasm] Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

quote:I can't speak for your particular web cam cache, since I'm not the approver in question. I can tell you that the approvers ask that web cams clearly show the person who logs the find. This sounds obvious, but we get a fair number of traffic cams as web cams. There designed to show traffic jams, not individuals. When you go to the spot of this web cam, you would clearly be shown. quote:When web cams were a novelty, and few and far between, some traffic cams were posted. If you use one of a year or two ago as precedent I'm afraid it may well be one that wouldn't be accepted today. The example of one similar to mine was approved on 2/26/03. quote:It seems obvious that a web cam should clearly show the person who logged the find, but we still get arguments from some that say if you can tell it's one person, not two, that it should be good enough. I agree the person should be shown clearly. quote:I also see it as a basic request that you provide accurate coords to the spot where someone should stand. I guess you could make it an offset webcam cache, but I'm not sure I see the value in that. Well, now here's the crux of the matter. I DO see value in that. I think part of the adventure in this case would be having to find exactly where to stand for the web cam. There are clear landmarks on the web shot, so it would not be THAT difficult to find the place. I did. Again, I think there is value in making the cache an offset, I think it makes it more of an adventure. Plus, the location of this cache is rural, and on shore line, so I think having to find the cache would increase the scenic value of the hunt too. Lastly, one portion of your response puzzles me. quote:I guess you could make it an offset webcam cache, but I'm not sure I see the value in that. Is the question whether or not the individual admin approver sees "value" in a cache I submit? Or should the admin be asking whether the geocaching community as a whole, or even some segment thereof, will appreciate the value of the cache (if any). I don't think an approver's personal likes and dislikes (or personal determinations of value) should come into play when approving a cache. Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."

I can't straighten out my ACCIDENTAL QUADRUPLE POSTING! I quit! Forgive me my trespasses...

.

quote:Why don't you just comply with the approvers request to provide correct coordinates? Well, she didn't exactly ask that I provide the correct coordinates, we're still having a discussion as to whether it should be approved as an off-set. Plus, I thought some of the fun in this webcam cache would be in finding the actual spot of the camera, as I have seen done before. With regards to precedent not being a reason to approve a cache, as far as I can tell, the rules in this particular area haven't changed since the last cache was approved. Pan Pan "The internet to tell me where. A GPS to get me there."