Konnarock Kid & Marge

Ditto to geoaware's statement! It's awful easy to criticize one's work when you have never attempted it yourself i.e. developed an EC! Let the new program roll on and let's all hold our venom until then. In other words, keep the criticism for something unknown to your self until it is actually known. Thanks. P.S. My caching partner and I found 4 ECs yesterday and perish the thought, they may have been inspired by the Masters program. If they were, thank goodness for the program!

Ditto!!!!

Considering all of the debate as to the whys and wherefores of posting photos, you have said it best! It is for folks like you that we develop ECs. Thanks for visiting earthcaches.

cezanne, You may know the cache developer, but did you get permission to hold up his cache as something beneath standards? If you did not receive permission, then it is a betrayal of friendship! I haven't done a statistical analysis but if your thesis is true and people only place earthcaches to brag about achieving a certain level then why do most EC developers go on the develop many more ECs above the minimum required? Maybe the Masters program was the original incentive but now they are hooked into the more esoteric aspects of earthcaching! If so, the program worked! To really prove your point, why don't you do a study and check to see what percent of earthcache developers stop with the Masters minimum? After finding those who stop, then examine their ECs to judge the quality. I am sure there are a few EC developers who stop with the Masters minimum, but it still doesn't prove that their ECs are inferior! We were initially interested in the Masters program and that's how we fell in love with ECs. I will put up our ECs to compare to anyone's! We did not climb mountains and risk life and limb to develop an EC just for the Master's button! Try it sometime. Thanks.

We have seen no lessening of photos being up loaded. Possibly, more and more geocachers just want to take pictures of their hunts and record them for memories. I don't know of a single cacher who doesn't take a camera with them. Thanks.

First of all, you offer no proof that the Masters Program has diluted the quality of earthcaches. Maybe , just maybe it has encouraged more visits and the enjoyment of ECs and the appreciation of geology. You have a right to your opinion, but most of us will wait and see what the new program will bring. I for one am proud of our Masters status and proud of our earthcaches. Now to your point that really gives us pain. What right do you feel that is yours to publicly hold up another innocent (not part of the discussion) cachers EC for ridicule? When you added the link to an EC that is beneath your dignity, you lost the argument. Why drag someone's work through the mud? By the way, 405 people thought enough of the EC to visit. The developer must have done something right. Thanks.

A couple of years ago that would have been very exciting news...now, not so much. Ditto for that! We will trade 10 additional 'merit badges' for the return of the photo requirement. I kinda swore off this forum for that very reason but I couldn't resist!

OK. I have no problem with that. Please allow us to be concerned about what we are concerned about. There is no need to belittle those that you disagree with. As we see the current World events, there is a lot to be "concerned" with, but geocaching? Pardon me! No one is belittling anyone. We are only trying to tone down the rhetoric and bring this discussion back to Earth. As we said before......................geocaching is a game and the World will not end if there are two or three sites that offer alternatives to the game! Play on!

"that we feel threatens that game" There are a lot of important threats in life, but we don't believe geocaching is being threatened by anything much less OC!

Amen to that!

Why reopen this thread? Geocaching is a game so why get so worked up over an alternative site? Some folks need to get a life!

Guidelines debatable.................of course! Does the debate influence the outcome..............of course not, at least where Earthcaches are concerned! In their defense, GS doesn't determine all of the EC guidelines. Maybe you folks on this forum who are seeking and placing traditional and other non EC caches have better luck! We cannot answer that one.

Thanks.

Hi, I took your advise and Googled geology 101. There were several choices. Would you mind posting a link or tell us who is the sponsor? Is it free? Thanks.

Please forgive me and I mean no offense, but I am gonna get in the back seat and go along for the drive. Many of us have been down this road before. Several times! Good luck!

Pray do tell why on earth you would want to upload a +3MB photograph!! The gc.com website resizes anyway so the smaller the upload the quicker it will happen as well. You win on time and bandwidth and gc.com wins on less space being utilized. In this day-n-age of mega pixel cameras we shouldn't have to 'pull up' a program such as Photo Shop and go through the trouble of resizing. I am like Ambrosia, we didn't have to do this before, so why now? I usually take only 3 to 4MB photos. Maybe we will have to adapt, but it seems like a step backwards. Thanks. P.S. If all I took were just pics to post for geocaching then I too would choose a much lesser resolution, but for earthcaches, usually we want the best we can do for our albums. Computer room isn't an issue with several gigs of space. I back everything up with a 1000 gig external drive.

Is this information still available in a previous database (maybe a back up somewhere?) If the old classification is still available, it would make it much easier to get the GC.com caches updated, even if it was in the description or title (as in VOL-Hawaii Volcanoes N.P-Calder and Crater or SPR-Thermal Spring) or some such thing. I've updated databases this way, and while not the best choice, sometimes it's better than creating a new table column, sometimes not. Just a suggestion. Its a good suggestion....but we still have 5000 not classiflied...a huge number! Maybe we can get some volunteers (hint, hint) to help? Geoaware As you know, I am far from being a geologist, but I think I know enough to help and will do so. Thanks.

+1 Very well said TE -1 Totally disagree! ...................respectfully, but still in disagreement! Are you not also sitting in judgment? Painting the sometimes strong discourse on this forum with such a wide brush is unfair. I love your attitude and do agree that it would be nice if everything was a bed of roses, but sadly, that is not the case. Policies announced without input and unanswered questions are the root cause of the problems here. Your input is welcome, but as you 'consider earthcaching' think about some of us who are already doing it and how much we love the hobby. When a good thing is tinkered with without concern of the EC community being accounted for, disagreement can and most often arises. Losing an argument can be problematic of course, but not even being allowed to join the debate is much worse! That occurs when changes are made without input. Most of us who perhaps at times get carried away, aren't doing it just to vent. It is the result of being shut out and leaving questions unanswered. Please join us and enjoy the earthcaching aspect of geocaching. Earthcaches are a little more complex than the run-of-the-mill geocache and maybe our problems are just a little more difficult too! Thanks. Yay! I'm still at 0! (My bed of roses has thorns, BTW)Judgment is what people do every day of their lives. I judge that my time is not well spent reading non productive posts, so I decide not to do it (that is just an example, not directed at any specific post). You judge just by your disagreement. People judge. Why this seems to be a dirty word to some, I don't know. It's how we manage our lives. Now, I don't believe I painted anything with a wide brush. I have no problem with strong discourse, and agree with the positions on some of the "hot" topics. I am just saying I would prefer to see thread titles like "Looking for solutions to English/Alternate Language", so if I were interested, I could read it, and if not, I don't find that topic taking some other thread off topic (not that I saw that happening, I'm just using that as an example-I would actually read that thread because it is interesting). Maybe I AM too Pollyanna, but I have seen it work on forums where people use really descriptive titles for the threads, keep the threads on topic, say why they disagree with someone/something by using facts (even the fact of, "This takes to dang long to do it this way, how about a compromise?"), do not throw a reference to their pet topic into everyone else's topic, and it works. Most people here seem pretty intelligent, does anyone really think that by telling someone "I'm being ignored and it's your fault and I want you to fix it!", it's going to make them want to help you? Think about the last time someone demanded something of you, all the time telling you you messed it all up and you're not taking my feelings into consideration. You wanted to step right up and help them out, right? (I didn't think so). Again, I get that this is MOO. Just telling it from the perspective of a newcomer, who likes intelligent discourse (strong is fine, rude is not, in my book). And wondering if this is the impression that anyone really wants to give to some newcomers. Of course, not caring about my opinion is always an option. I've said my piece, and unless I said something really stupid and didn't realize it (which often happens), I'll be done now. Except to say that I am very impressed with the articulation, issues listed in a factual way, with reasons why they are issues, and consideration that I have seen on this thread. Now that is worth a read! Not caring about your opinion is not an option for me. While we may or may not agree point for point, you seem to care and have as much right to express your opinion as the next cacher. I guess I am a little jaded because of being around so long and getting exasperated because of a perception (right or wrong) that our input is not valued. Maybe you can lend a settling influence on us! Thanks.

We just looked at it. What a fun cache! I think we could list them all. We wish we were closer! It looks like it is about 150 miles from Marge's sister who lives in Sturgeon Bay. Maybe next trip to see her? I think we could list them all. Are there honorary finds? lol

Does anybody know of any underwater ECs? I am not a certified scuba diver but love to snorkel. We have visited the Caribbean a couple of times and will return shortly. Would a reef do the trick and satisfy geological aspects? Any suggestions are most welcomed. One last question, who do you get permission from? Thanks.

Here is a link to one of the EC challenge caches. There may be more, but this is the only one we are aware of. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=15cafdaa-428a-4e87-9fda-01fc3284f303 Good luck. Thanks KKM. I may have to put out my own version of an EarthCache Challenge cache here in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada as I don't believe there is one like that around here. JH You are welcome. You ought to do it! I would like to do the same for our neck of the woods. Texas is also a bit far for us. I think we are either close or at the required finds, but getting there is the present difficulty.

All excellent approaches. Perhaps other experienced geologists will add to the list. Thanks.

Here is a link to one of the EC challenge caches. There may be more, but this is the only one we are aware of. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=15cafdaa-428a-4e87-9fda-01fc3284f303 Good luck.

+1 Very well said TE -1 Totally disagree! ...................respectfully, but still in disagreement! Are you not also sitting in judgment? Painting the sometimes strong discourse on this forum with such a wide brush is unfair. I love your attitude and do agree that it would be nice if everything was a bed of roses, but sadly, that is not the case. Policies announced without input and unanswered questions are the root cause of the problems here. Your input is welcome, but as you 'consider earthcaching' think about some of us who are already doing it and how much we love the hobby. When a good thing is tinkered with without concern of the EC community being accounted for, disagreement can and most often arises. Losing an argument can be problematic of course, but not even being allowed to join the debate is much worse! That occurs when changes are made without input. Most of us who perhaps at times get carried away, aren't doing it just to vent. It is the result of being shut out and leaving questions unanswered. Please join us and enjoy the earthcaching aspect of geocaching. Earthcaches are a little more complex than the run-of-the-mill geocache and maybe our problems are just a little more difficult too! Thanks.

I tried to do that for example in the case of the language topic (the suggestion was to allow those languages for Earthcaches in a country that are also accepted in that country for normal caches). Unfortunately, not a single reply of Groundspeak or the Earthcache team commented on that suggestion. If the suggestion is regarded as bad, it would be nice to be informed why this is the case. Also the topic that in many areas there does not exist "one local language has never been addressed from the official side. The valid scientific concerns about the new photo guideline also have not been addressed. It is not that surprising that in this way the same topics pop up again and again. Cezanne Cezanne, your points are right on! Here is the dilemma, the problem of 'unhappiness' occurs, much to the chagrin of TPTB, when several questions are posed here and no answers given. I must excuse GS from most of my remarks because as a rule, they are responsive. When guideline changes are announced without input from the caching community just what do you expect.........................everyone dancing around the May pole? Yes, I know that GSA has said that if you have a question send them an email. I am sorry but I respectively disagree. A private message or email is just that, private! What a better place to communicate that this forum. If there is any redeeming quality of forums, it is the openness of them! Maybe the experience when the proposed guideline changes of the vacation and proximity rules were announced has left a bitter taste and that route will not be used again. Don't announce a proposed change until the change is made seems to be the current approach and that's the problem! I summary: solicit input and don't insist on private emails, answer question here as what happens on other forums. Thanks you.